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TimHauck

Why have USC QB's not done well in the NFL?

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With the Panthers signing Matt Barkley, this seems to be the convo in Charlotte right now

Carson Palmer is really the last one that was actually any good and he graduated almost 20 years ago.

Recent busts of course include Darnold, Barkley, Sanchez (although he at least had like 1 decent year), and Leinart; with Palmer coming right before Leinart.

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It's just the odds. You're talking about 4 QBs out of dozens that enter the NFL over two decades.

It's a long shot. I don't know that is has anything specifically to do with USC. You could pretty much say the same thing about Alabama, or Florida, or Ohio State, or many schools.

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3 minutes ago, polecatt said:

It's just the odds. You're talking about 4 QBs out of dozens that enter the NFL over two decades.

It's a long shot. I don't know that is has anything specifically to do with USC. You could pretty much say the same thing about Alabama, or Florida, or Ohio State, or many schools.

is it though?
 

Darnold 3rd overall

Sanchez 5th overall

Leinart 10th overall


I know not all top 10 picks hit, but that's gotta be a lower rate than usual (for some reason thought Barkley was drafted higher but he was only 4th round so I guess he shouldn't count).

 


Has any other school even had many QB's go in the top 10 or so recently?   

Maybe Oregon - Herbert looks good, but Mariota hasn't been.   Going back to the Carson Palmer era they also had Joey Harrington bust.

Oklahoma - Murray (good), Mayfield (TBD), Bradford (not great)

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

is it though?
 

Darnold 3rd overall

Sanchez 5th overall

Leinart 10th overall


I know not all top 10 picks hit, but that's gotta be a lower rate than usual (for some reason thought Barkley was drafted higher but he was only 4th round so I guess he shouldn't count).

 


Has any other school even had many QB's go in the top 10 or so recently?   

Maybe Oregon - Herbert looks good, but Mariota hasn't been.   Going back to the Carson Palmer era they also had Joey Harrington bust.

Oklahoma - Murray (good), Mayfield (TBD), Bradford (not great)

 

 

 

I think if anything you could just call it an overhype of USC QBs.

West coast bias, something like that.

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To me, Darnold sucking has nothing to with Barkley or any of the others sucking. Different kids, different coaches, different system etc. It’s a combination of the qb position being incredibly hard to evaluate from college to pros, and only a handful of college schools routinely getting the blue chip 5 star high schoolers.

The only reasons I can see a school struggling to produce a qb year after year year is either the system of one coach who has always been there, or the fact many of the qbs at the pinnacle programs are so used to playing with superior talent around them in college and high school, that they don’t adjust well when the talent on the defense is on par with the talent on offense. As an Ohio state fan, I knew Fields would struggle this year. In college he was hesitant to throw any ball where the receiver didn’t have 5 yards of separation, so he wasnt going to suddenly start throwing in tight windows or before a receiver was open. That type of adjustment takes time and often never happens.

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8 hours ago, polecatt said:

I think if anything you could just call it an overhype of USC QBs.

West coast bias, something like that.

Preach.  They are just over drafted.  I had season tickets to USC for awhile.  The QBs always sit back there for 5 seconds while they pat the ball with 3 receivers running wide open.  The don't ever have to hone that anticipation or the skill to throw someone open or read a defense.

Most good QBs come from the 2nd tier schools where they actually need to make their teams better.

  1. Mahomes - Texas Tech
  2. Josh Allen - Wyoming
  3. Lamar - Louisville
  4. Dak - Miss St
  5. Brady - Michigan
  6. Herbert - Oregon

Then you have the Boston Colleges, the Eastern Illinois, the Purdues, the Tennessee.

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8 hours ago, TimHauck said:

is it though?
 

Darnold 3rd overall

Sanchez 5th overall

Leinart 10th overall

 

Darnold and Sanchez were both drafted by the Jets.   a team whose player development when it comes to QB's has been terrible .   I dont know that I need to say more there.

Leinart was actually supposed to be a starter but I think he had some mental health issues that affected his ability to achieve his potential as a pro.  If I recall he did some dumb things that made the team pass him over and then he fell apart.  

I truly think he had the talent to be a good pro.  but Talent isnt everything.

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Darnold is exactly who he was in college.  He always started strong and then became an absolute disaster.  Then when the pressure was off, he would start looking good again.  It was like clockwork with him.

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27 minutes ago, nobody said:

Preach.  They are just over drafted.  I had season tickets to USC for awhile.  The QBs always sit back there for 5 seconds while they pat the ball with 3 receivers running wide open.  The don't ever have to hone that anticipation or the skill to throw someone open or read a defense.

Most good QBs come from the 2nd tier schools where they actually need to make their teams better.

  1. Mahomes - Texas Tech
  2. Josh Allen - Wyoming
  3. Lamar - Louisville
  4. Dak - Miss St
  5. Brady - Michigan
  6. Herbert - Oregon

Then you have the Boston Colleges, the Eastern Illinois, the Purdues, the Tennessee.

Well, I don't know that I would call Michigan a 2nd tier school, but yeah, you're spot on for the most part.

Since the best college teams always seem to be loaded up and down the roster, they often get a semi bus driver sort of QB who isn't asked to do a whole lot other than don't make mistakes.

It happens, like Trevor Lawrence, and Deshaun Watson both coming from probably the 2nd best program of the past decade or so. Joe Burrow, another example. Most of them though, seem to come from major conferences, but not always the best teams. It's been that way too for a while.

Look at Stanford, John Elway to Andrew Luck.

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1 hour ago, polecatt said:

Well, I don't know that I would call Michigan a 2nd tier school, but yeah, you're spot on for the most part.

Since the best college teams always seem to be loaded up and down the roster, they often get a semi bus driver sort of QB who isn't asked to do a whole lot other than don't make mistakes.

It happens, like Trevor Lawrence, and Deshaun Watson both coming from probably the 2nd best program of the past decade or so. Joe Burrow, another example. Most of them though, seem to come from major conferences, but not always the best teams. It's been that way too for a while.

Look at Stanford, John Elway to Andrew Luck.

HAHAHA you Karen's, Oregon a second tier school? WOW, you guys ARE totally clueless! Thanks for the laughs!

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48 minutes ago, huskyhater75 said:

HAHAHA you Karen's, Oregon a second tier school? WOW, you guys ARE totally clueless! Thanks for the laughs!

What makes Oregon first tier?

How can a team that's never won a national title be first tier?

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1 hour ago, polecatt said:

What makes Oregon first tier?

How can a team that's never won a national title be first tier?

What a DOLT! They went to ohio state's place this year and dominated them, a few years back went to michigan...............39-7. How old are(n't) you, son? 

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I think I'd have to agree with husky here, I'd say Oregon is "1st tier"

AP Poll finishes:

2020: NR

2019: 5

2016-18: NR

2015: 19

2014: 2

2013: 9

2012: 2

2011: 4

2010: 3

2009: 11

2008: 10

 

Despite the drought from 2016-2018 (maybe also including 2015), they are currently ranked #5 and have 8 top 11 and 5 top 5 finishes over the past 13 years.  

 

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When I look at kid's for the draft. I've always given myself stupid rules. An example with USC. Stay away from QB's. Pay close attention to WR's. Again, stupid rule. But stuff like this does work for me.

 

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8 hours ago, TimHauck said:

I think I'd have to agree with husky here, I'd say Oregon is "1st tier"

AP Poll finishes:

2020: NR

2019: 5

2016-18: NR

2015: 19

2014: 2

2013: 9

2012: 2

2011: 4

2010: 3

2009: 11

2008: 10

 

Despite the drought from 2016-2018 (maybe also including 2015), they are currently ranked #5 and have 8 top 11 and 5 top 5 finishes over the past 13 years.  

 

Overrated doesn't equal first tier.

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22 hours ago, TimHauck said:

I think I'd have to agree with husky here, I'd say Oregon is "1st tier"

AP Poll finishes:

2020: NR

2019: 5

2016-18: NR

2015: 19

2014: 2

2013: 9

2012: 2

2011: 4

2010: 3

2009: 11

2008: 10

 

Despite the drought from 2016-2018 (maybe also including 2015), they are currently ranked #5 and have 8 top 11 and 5 top 5 finishes over the past 13 years.  

 

How many national championships have they won?

Zero?

Are the Browns a top notch NFL franchise because they have a winning record this season and made the playoffs last season?

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22 hours ago, huskyhater75 said:

What a DOLT! They went to ohio state's place this year and dominated them, a few years back went to michigan...............39-7. How old are(n't) you, son? 

So they beat Ohio State this season and beat Michigan a few years ago?

That's what makes them a top tier team?

On par with Alabama and Clemson?  🤣🤣

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23 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Better than Ohio State QB’s. 

My teams qbs have been trash in the nfl, but I couldn’t care less. Only matters what they do at the school.

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50 minutes ago, polecatt said:

How many national championships have they won?

Zero?

Are the Browns a top notch NFL franchise because they have a winning record this season and made the playoffs last season?

I guess the bigger question is how many schools total do you think are in the “first tier”?

I think I’d say about 10.  But only 7 schools have won titles in the past 13 years.  If you include those 7 as “top tier,” I’d think Oregon could probably get in as one of those last 3.

Browns aren’t comparable because they haven’t had sustained success.   NFL in general probably isn’t really comparable due to the parity.  I’d say they would’ve been comparable to someone like the Atlanta Braves who just won their first championship in 26 years.

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On 11/10/2021 at 12:16 PM, Serenity Now said:

To me, Darnold sucking has nothing to with Barkley or any of the others sucking. Different kids, different coaches, different system etc. It’s a combination of the qb position being incredibly hard to evaluate from college to pros, and only a handful of college schools routinely getting the blue chip 5 star high schoolers.

The only reasons I can see a school struggling to produce a qb year after year year is either the system of one coach who has always been there, or the fact many of the qbs at the pinnacle programs are so used to playing with superior talent around them in college and high school, that they don’t adjust well when the talent on the defense is on par with the talent on offense. As an Ohio state fan, I knew Fields would struggle this year. In college he was hesitant to throw any ball where the receiver didn’t have 5 yards of separation, so he wasnt going to suddenly start throwing in tight windows or before a receiver was open. That type of adjustment takes time and often never happens.

This. A QB at a top school like USC may spend weeks between sacks while having NFL-caliber WRs going against inferior CBs. Then they hit the NFL where linemen are big and quick, defenses are usually disguised much better, and hitting a tight window to your WR is a must. Not every QB can make that adjustment.

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On 11/11/2021 at 8:01 PM, polecatt said:

So they beat Ohio State this season and beat Michigan a few years ago?

That's what makes them a top tier team?

On par with Alabama and Clemson?  🤣🤣

Ducks will play anybody, anywhere, they can only beat who has the guts to schedule them-unlike the overrated (every year) sec. Plus I bet it'll be a few years before the luckeyes want to play some more big boy football.

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36 minutes ago, huskyhater75 said:

Ducks will play anybody, anywhere, they can only beat who has the guts to schedule them

But usually just lose

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2 hours ago, nobody said:

But usually just lose

You sound so sec, talk big but back off on scheduling............................. you're dismissed. I hint a lot of jealousy from you.

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Just now, huskyhater75 said:

You sound so sec, talk big but back off on scheduling............................. you're dismissed. I hint a lot of jealousy from you.

Look at their record, einstein. You don't even have 1/2 a leg to stand on. Like I said, you sound so jealous.

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On 11/10/2021 at 7:59 PM, nobody said:

Preach.  They are just over drafted.  I had season tickets to USC for awhile.  The QBs always sit back there for 5 seconds while they pat the ball with 3 receivers running wide open.  The don't ever have to hone that anticipation or the skill to throw someone open or read a defense.

Most good QBs come from the 2nd tier schools where they actually need to make their teams better.

  1. Mahomes - Texas Tech
  2. Josh Allen - Wyoming
  3. Lamar - Louisville
  4. Dak - Miss St
  5. Brady - Michigan
  6. Herbert - Oregon

Then you have the Boston Colleges, the Eastern Illinois, the Purdues, the Tennessee.

Absolute best point in this post is Michigan as a 2nd Tier Program!   The State of OH loves this post!  🏆

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22 minutes ago, Philo312 said:

Absolute best point in this post is Michigan as a 2nd Tier Program!   The State of OH loves this post!  🏆

HAHA he's just jealous of Michigan and Oregon, pure jealousy.

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Maybe if Oregon had a few different uniform combinations, they could move up to that 2nd tier.

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