New York City opens nation's first supervised injection site to help curb overdose deaths

[MDC 5,890]

23 minutes ago, edjr said:

wow. a mostly non political topic was started and stayed that way at FFT   so far

Nobody took Trollio’s bait.  

[Herbivore 905]

1 hour ago, MTSkiBum said:

From what little I have read, most studies of the opioid epidemic have found that pharmaceutical companies, and Purdue in particular are the root cause of our current epidemic.

We are where we are because of legal drugs.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-02686-2

Yes, I understand it that way. I am all for going after pharmaceutical companies..when they are scum.

[Djgb13 2,338]

I’ll be there in two weeks. You guys want me to grab a selfie in front of it?  

[Herbivore 905]

1 hour ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Increasing supply creates more addicts. And you keep saying the war on drugs as it is currently being carried out. I’m not saying to continue doing the same thing. I want to outsmart them, not outfight them. They can’t operate at this volume without somewhere to put their money.  

I dont believe you increase the supply when you regulate.  You focus. I dont believe people want to be addicts. When given options most will go the right way. Pretty sure people have followed the money. 

[Hardcore troubadour 12,626]

44 minutes ago, Herbivore said:

I dont believe you increase the supply when you regulate.  You focus. I dont believe people want to be addicts. When given options most will go the right way. Pretty sure people have followed the money. 

Yeah, they did. And the banks paid a fine. That’s it. 

[lod001 1,237]

9 hours ago, edjr said:

Do you not agree the war on drugs has been an epic failure that cost untold billions, trillions?

We need to assist in their deaths. Load up the drugs with lethal doses of fentenyl. Clean house. These losers are a plague.

[TBayXXXVII 2,114]

23 hours ago, RLLD said:

I agree, with a caveat.  The current problem is primarily a result of big pharma lying, bribing manipulating government and medical professionals to allow for wide spread opiod use.

People were trusting medical professionals on what do, and so very many wound up addicted and found their way to heroin, not all but many.

I do not see that there is a specific advantage to the strategy of "let them die" unless it includes zero response to an OD event.   What you propose would just kill our first responders.

 

23 hours ago, TheNewGirl said:

The issue I have here is that you have those that were given opioids to manage pain, but never taught that they are addictive, or that they aren't good for pain management. So, when that addiction occurs, the person usually resorts to finding the cheaper opioid on the street. Heroin is cheaper and easier to come by than Oxy or whatever. 

There is a portion of this that big pharma/doctor's should really take responsibility for. 

I do agree that some of it is a matter of choice, but when it comes to addiction (if you've never been there)....it can be much more than that. If the mental help services, detox services, pain management, etc. aren't available, some of these folks to do not have a choice. I am not making excuses for them, I just think injecting them with their drug of choice to watch them die is a bit extreme. 

That's all well and good, but people who had dependencies based on pain management aren't being helped by this.  This like this are only giving true junkies a safe space to be a junkie.  If people have pain issues, then they need to see doctors, not have a shoot up joint.  I'd rather the government spend money on that, than what they're doing here.

[TBayXXXVII 2,114]

22 hours ago, Herbivore said:

War on drugs is a joke, regulation is the only way.

Odd, because it's already been proven that regulation doesn't work.  Also, common sense supports that it won't work either.  Typical liberal mindset.  Have a "moral" idea and preach that it's the right way.  When it doesn't work, throw money at it.  When it still doesn't work... it's not that the idea bad, it's that they need to throw more money at it.

 

You can't regulate something that can be obtained cheaper through outside means.  As mentioned above, Weed shops make good money, but weed can be grown for personal use (without prosecution), and can be bought from your local pot head cheaper.  There will come a point when people will get fed up with the costs and weed shops either really drop their prices or Mary J. Wanna will come start ranking in the dough at an even faster rate.  Anything stronger, like Heroin, coke, and meth... once you regulate it and it comes with a cost, in will come the cartels with their deals at a lower price.  There's a 0% chance that regulation will work.

You support Darwinism, right?  Science?  Here's the ONLY solution.  Do nothing.  That's it.  Do nothing.  No safe places to shoot up.  No laws against them.  No government spending.  The net result is Darwinism.  Survival of the fittest.  If you're too stupid to stay away from the stuff, that's their fault.  If there are people who have issues because of medications... spend the money on helping them.  Also, write laws that include the death penalty for criminal acts while performed under the influence... even for things as minor as jaywalking.  Fock'em.  Zero sympathy.  Zero tolerance.  That's the only solution... and it costs virtually nothing.

[TheNewGirl 1,022]

23 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

 

That's all well and good, but people who had dependencies based on pain management aren't being helped by this.  This like this are only giving true junkies a safe space to be a junkie.  If people have pain issues, then they need to see doctors, not have a shoot up joint.  I'd rather the government spend money on that, than what they're doing here.

This is my point. 

I agree that they need to see doctors, however...there are doctors that are literally like, "Hmm...well, I can't give you anymore drugs..." and it stops there. These people remain addicted and then try and find their cheaper options (heroin, street fentyl). By this time, they need rehab AND pain management. AND...most of them don't have the $ FOR a doctor or the medical costs that come with having insurance, etc. 

Real life example: 

My husband had a collapsed disc a couple of years ago, could barely get out of bed. What did they do? Loaded him up with gabapentin month after month. He finally got the first surgery about four months after the initial injury. Fixed a part of it, so he still had residual nerve pain. More gabapentin. Second surgery fixed the issue. 

This year, he had more back issues, but they sent him to a pain management "specialist" who doesn't really do pills. This was the FIRST time this was suggested. 

He STILL gets offered gabapentin when he goes to pick up ANY other Rx. 

[Herbivore 905]

39 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Odd, because it's already been proven that regulation doesn't work.  Also, common sense supports that it won't work either.  Typical liberal mindset.  Have a "moral" idea and preach that it's the right way.  When it doesn't work, throw money at it.  When it still doesn't work... it's not that the idea bad, it's that they need to throw more money at it.

 

You can't regulate something that can be obtained cheaper through outside means.  As mentioned above, Weed shops make good money, but weed can be grown for personal use (without prosecution), and can be bought from your local pot head cheaper.  There will come a point when people will get fed up with the costs and weed shops either really drop their prices or Mary J. Wanna will come start ranking in the dough at an even faster rate.  Anything stronger, like Heroin, coke, and meth... once you regulate it and it comes with a cost, in will come the cartels with their deals at a lower price.  There's a 0% chance that regulation will work.

You support Darwinism, right?  Science?  Here's the ONLY solution.  Do nothing.  That's it.  Do nothing.  No safe places to shoot up.  No laws against them.  No government spending.  The net result is Darwinism.  Survival of the fittest.  If you're too stupid to stay away from the stuff, that's their fault.  If there are people who have issues because of medications... spend the money on helping them.  Also, write laws that include the death penalty for criminal acts while performed under the influence... even for things as minor as jaywalking.  Fock'em.  Zero sympathy.  Zero tolerance.  That's the only solution... and it costs virtually nothing.

way too much stupid to unpack here.

[TBayXXXVII 2,114]

2 minutes ago, Herbivore said:

way too much stupid to unpack here.

Just look in the mirror, it'll help identify all the stupid you need.

[Herbivore 905]

I usually respect your comments

[TBayXXXVII 2,114]

I highly doubt you do.

[edjr 5,556]

Percs and those kind of opioids are crazy expensive. If the DR stops handing them out, Heroin is the cheaper and best option to curb the addiction

[TheNewGirl 1,022]

5 minutes ago, edjr said:

Percs and those kind of opioids are crazy expensive. If the DR stops handing them out, Heroin is the cheaper and best option to curb the addiction

Exactly. 

If you watch ANY of the Intervention shows, this is pointed out almost every time. They almost all started with some kind of injury or surgery needing pain meds. They get addicted because doctors kind of write them off, and then these people have NO choice. Some have lost jobs, families, etc. Their only choice is to STOP, but without the right resources, they feel lost. 

[Hardcore troubadour 12,626]

Dopers get an epipen, grind up the pills and liquify them and inject it with the pen because the pills aren’t cutting it anymore. There is a black market for epipens. 

[edjr 5,556]

13 minutes ago, TheNewGirl said:

Exactly. 

If you watch ANY of the Intervention shows, this is pointed out almost every time. They almost all started with some kind of injury or surgery needing pain meds. They get addicted because doctors kind of write them off, and then these people have NO choice. Some have lost jobs, families, etc. Their only choice is to STOP, but without the right resources, they feel lost. 

Good friend in High School got into a car accident a few years after graduating, broke his back. not 2 years after, robbing stores to pay for his pill addiction, got busted for armed robbery. Spent 4 years in jail. Luckily had no priors and was white

[Hardcore troubadour 12,626]

On 12/1/2021 at 9:37 AM, Mike Honcho said:

War on drugs has been an epic failure, in every respect. Need approaches that decriminalize, regulate and have support for addictions.  Would probably make more money in taxes than the any new services would cost.  See Amsterdam.  

San Francisco has stopped taxing marijuana dispensaries because the legal weed sellers can’t compete with the illegal sellers because, wait for it, the taxes. So much for that. 

[edjr 5,556]

Good place to wait outside to find a cheap date.