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Ukraine - Doomsday

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https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/mar/09/ukraine-bakhmut-heavy-casualties-russia-war

Ukrainian forces still trying to hold Bakhmut despite heavy casualties

Soldiers and analysts suggest defending city has become more of a political than practical issue, as Russian push continues

Thu 9 Mar 2023 09.06 EST

Ukrainian soldiers are being pummelled on three sides by Russian forces who are trying to capture Bakhmut, a city in the eastern Donetsk region that has become the focus of the longest and one of the bloodiest battles since the war began.

Ukraine’s authorities insist they will continue to try to hold the city despite them suffering an estimated 100-200 casualties a day – with some saying the reason is more political and symbolic than practical. Retreating from the city now, after so many soldiers died fighting to keep it, would be a hard reality to face.

In the second week of February, pictures of blown-up bridges out of Bakhmut, in Ukrainian-controlled territory, started to appear online, indicating that Kyiv was preparing its retreat from the city.

Military analysts have said the logical place for the new line would still be some way from the neighbouring towns of Kostiantynivka and Kramatorsk and would mean that Ukrainian soldiers would stop facing attacks from three sides at once. And the US-based Institute for the Study of War believes that even if the city falls, Russian forces lack the “capability to exploit the tactical capture of Bakhmut”.

Furthermore, although western officials have estimated that Russia has had 20,000-30,000 casualties, Ukraine’s losses in Bakhmut could have a significant effect on its future chances.

Ukraine’s considerable losses in Bakhmut have even led some to describe it as a strategic mistake that may harm Ukraine’s hope of launching a successful counterattack in the spring.

A commander leading the troops around Bakhmut, speaking to the Wall Street Journal, said that Ukraine was using “too much of the offensive potential” that it would need once the ground dries and firms up in spring, when both sides will be able to use their heavy equipment.

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On 3/5/2023 at 10:02 PM, Pimpadeaux said:

This article I posted reports that only recently has the pain of the sanctions bite been felt, and that the GDP will decrease somewhat, but it's a fluid situation.

This guy is interesting - Jeffrey Sonnenfeld, some sort of economics expert.  Paints a bleak picture. Says the IMF numbers are complete BS because Russia quit submitting economic data mid-2022. So where do they get their numbers? From Russia.  That would explain the surprising data reported in recent weeks from IMF especially the projection of an increasing GDP.

Goes on to talk about Russia's unemployment, ruble value and how the world has basically figured out - nobody needs Russia's commodities (oil/metal/food) given the alternative sources, which is all Russia's got to offer.

 

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5 hours ago, GobbleDog said:

This guy is interesting - Jeffrey Sonnenfeld, some sort of economics expert.  Paints a bleak picture. Says the IMF numbers are complete BS because Russia quit submitting economic data mid-2022. So where do they get their numbers? From Russia.  That would explain the surprising data reported in recent weeks from IMF especially the projection of an increasing GDP.

Goes on to talk about Russia's unemployment, ruble value and how the world has basically figured out - nobody needs Russia's commodities (oil/metal/food) given the alternative sources, which is all Russia's got to offer.

 

Interesting stuff. Keep it coming, sir!

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57 minutes ago, seafoam1 said:

Rusty is living his days on the Ukraine propaganda network. 

You're living your days as an immature ignorant idiot.

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50 minutes ago, Pimpadeaux said:

You're living your days as an immature ignorant idiot.

I would say "immature" is following Ukrainian propaganda like you do all day every day. But, you got nothing else in life being the war mongering liberal you have been in your life. Go figure. :dunno: 

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On 1/25/2022 at 9:53 PM, Hardcore troubadour said:

A small incursion into Ukraine by Russia is ok. 

My how far we have come. 

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China is now officially arming Russia.

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/03/16/chinese-rifles-body-armor-russia-ukraine-00087398

China ships assault weapons and body armor to Russia

Customs data obtained by POLITICO reveals direct shipments of Chinese assault rifles, as well as drone shipments and body armor routed via Turkey and the UAE.

By Erin Banco and Sarah Anne Aarup

03/16/2023 01:00 PM EDT

Updated: 03/16/2023 05:11 PM EDT

Chinese companies, including one connected to the government in Beijing, have sent Russian entities 1,000 assault rifles and other equipment that could be used for military purposes, including drone parts and body armor, according to trade and customs data obtained by POLITICO.

The shipments took place between June and December 2022, according to the data provided by Import Genius, a customs data aggregator.

China North Industries Group Corporation Limited, one of the country’s largest state-owned defense contractors, sent the rifles in June 2022 to a Russian company called Tekhkrim that also does business with the Russian state and military. The CQ-A rifles, modeled off of the M16 but tagged as “civilian hunting rifles” in the data, have been reported to be in use by paramilitary police in China and by armed forces from the Philippines to South Sudan and Paraguay.

Russian entities also received 12 shipments of drone parts by Chinese companies and over 12 tons of Chinese body armor, routed via Turkey, in late 2022, according to the data.

Although the customs data does not show that Beijing is selling a large amount of weapons to Moscow specifically to aid its war effort, it reveals that China is supplying Russian companies with previously unreported “dual-use” equipment — commercial items that could also be used on the battlefield in Ukraine.

It is the first confirmation that China is sending rifles and body armor to Russian companies, and shows that drones and drone parts are still being sent despite promises from at least one company that said it would suspend business in Russia and Ukraine to ensure its products did not aid the war effort.

The confirmation of these shipments comes as leaders in the U.S. and Europe warn Beijing against supporting Russia’s efforts in Ukraine. Western officials have said in recent weeks that China is considering sending weapons to Russia’s military, a move that could alter the nature of the fighting on the ground in Ukraine, tipping it in Russia’s favor. Officials are also concerned that some of the dual-use material could also be used by Russia to equip reinforcements being deployed to Ukraine at a time when Moscow is in desperate need of supplies.

Da-Jiang Innovations Science & Technology Co., also known as DJI, sent drone parts — like batteries and cameras — via the United Arab Emirates to a small Russian distributor in November and December 2022. DJI is a Chinese company that has been under U.S. Treasury sanctions since 2021 for providing the Chinese state with drones to surveil the Uyghur minority in the western region of Xinjiang.

In addition to drones, Russia has for months relied on other countries, including China, for navigation equipment, satellite imagery, vehicle components and other raw materials to help prop up President Vladimir Putin’s year-old war on Ukraine.

It’s currently unclear if Russia is using any of the rifles included in the shipment data on the battlefield — Tekhkrim, the Russian company, did not respond to an emailed request for comment. But the DJI drones have been spotted on the battlefield for months. DJI did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

The National Security Council did not comment on the record for this story. The Chinese embassy in Washington said in a statement that Beijing is “committed to promoting talks for peace” in Ukraine.

“China did not create the crisis. It is not a party to the crisis, and has not provided weapons to either side of the conflict,” said embassy spokesperson Liu Pengyu.

Asked about the findings in the data obtained by POLITICO, Poland’s Ambassador to the EU Andrzej Sadoś said that “due to the potential very serious consequences, such information should be verified immediately.”

Although Western sanctions have hampered Moscow’s ability to import everything from microchips to tear gas, Russia’s still able to buy supplies that support its war effort from “friendly” countries that aren’t following the West’s new rules, like China or the Gulf countries.

“Some commercial products, like drones or even microchips, could be adapted. They can transform from a simple benign civilian product to a lethal and military product,” said Sam Bendett, an adjunct senior fellow at the Center of Naval Analyses Russia Studies in Washington, noting that dual-use items could help Russia advance on the battlefield.

Experts say it is difficult to track whether dual-use items shipped from China are being sold to buyers who intend to use the technology for civilian purposes or for military means.

“The challenge with dual-use items is that the export control system we have has to consider both the commercial sales possibilities as well as the military use of certain items,” said Zach Cooper, former assistant to the deputy national security adviser for combating terrorism at the National Security Council.

In cases where the Kremlin craves specific technology only produced in say the U.S., EU or Japan, there are wily ways for Moscow to evade sanctions, which include buying equipment from middlemen located in countries with cordial trade relations with both the West and Russia.

Russia managed to import almost 80 tons of body armor worth around $10 million in December last year, according to the customs data from Import Genius. Those bulletproof vests were manufactured by Turkish company Ariteks and most were imported straight from Turkey, although some of the shipments arrived to Russia via the United Arab Emirates. Russia also imported some body armor from Chinese company Xinxing Guangzhou Import & Export Co.

Trade data also shows that Russian state defense company Rosoboronexport has imported microchips, thermal vision devices and spare parts like a gas turbine engine from a variety of countries ranging from China to Serbia and Myanmar since 2022.

Dual-use items could also be a way for China to quietly increase its assistance to Moscow while avoiding reprisals officials in Washington and Europe have been threatening in recent weeks if China goes ahead with sending weapons to the Russian military.

Most recently, German Chancellor Olaf Scholz told reporters last week that there would be “consequences” if China sent weapons to Russia, although he also said that he’s seen “no evidence” that Beijing is considering delivering arms to Moscow.

“We are now in a stage where we are making clear that this should not happen, and I’m relatively optimistic that we will be successful with our request in this case,” he said.

Among the military items China has been considering shipping to Russia are drones, ammunition and other small arms, according to a list that has circulated inside the administration and on Capitol Hill for months, according to a person who read that document. And intelligence briefed to officials in Washington, on Capitol Hill and to U.S. allies across the world in the last month, suggests Beijing could take the step to ship weapons to Russia.

“We do see [China] providing assistance to Russia in the context of the conflict. And we see them in a situation in which they’ve become increasingly uncomfortable about the level of assistance and not looking to do it as publicly as might otherwise occur and given the reputational costs associated with it,” Avril Haines, the U.S. director of national intelligence, said in a congressional hearing March 8. “That is a very real concern and the degree of how close they get and how much assistance they’re providing is something we watch very carefully.”

As data about dual-use item shipments to Russia becomes available, Western countries are expected to ramp up efforts to quell these flows.

“We’ve already started to see sanctions against people [moving] military material to Russia. I’m sure we’re going to be seeing the EU and other countries target those people that are helping a lot of this material to get to Russia,” said James Byrne from the Royal United Services Institute, a U.K.-based defense think tank.

Beijing continues to deny that it is ramping up support for Russia in Ukraine. However, several of its top officials have recently traveled to Moscow. President Xi Jinping is expected to make an appearance there in the coming weeks. China recently presented a 12-point peace proposal for the war in Ukraine, though it was criticized by western leaders for its ambiguity and for its lack of details about the need for the withdrawal of Russian troops.

Leonie Kijewski contributed reporting from Brussels.

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1 hour ago, JustinCharge said:

Xi to visit Moscow March 20-22.

He's also visiting Zelensky, peanut.

🤣

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On 3/17/2023 at 6:50 PM, Pimpadeaux said:

He's also visiting Zelensky, peanut.

🤣

War mongering liberal from the US sitting the war out but cheerleading it on from afar is calling someone else a peanut? 

Now I've heard it all. 

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On 3/17/2023 at 6:50 PM, Pimpadeaux said:

He's also visiting Zelensky, peanut.

🤣

Xi the peacemaker? Nice work Joe. 

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3 hours ago, seafoam1 said:

War mongering liberal from the US sitting the war out but cheerleading it on from afar is calling someone else a peanut? 

Now I've heard it all. 

You've got a boner for autocracies and dictators, which is what you'd love to see in the United States. Oh, and you love that Russians are kidnapping children, raping women and torturing and killing innocent people. Not surprising you love these things, you ugly piece of sh!t.

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I remember when we stood up for our partners in Europe. Now we have a bunch of sniveling cowards because it’s politically expedient. Sad!

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6 minutes ago, thegeneral said:

I remember when we stood up for our partners in Europe. Now we have a bunch of sniveling cowards because it’s politically expedient. Sad!

I remember when we didnt lie to Americans to get us involved in political conflict for profit

oh wait no i don't

since when is Ukraine our partner in Europe?  I mean just cause your boy Obama overthru their democratically elected president and instilled his shadow govt doesn't mean they are our ally

 

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2 minutes ago, RaiderHaters Revenge said:

I remember when we didnt lie to Americans to get us involved in political conflict for profit

oh wait no i don't

since when is Ukraine our partner in Europe?  I mean just cause your boy Obama overthru their democratically elected president and instilled his shadow govt doesn't mean they are our ally

 

Ukraine is where your boy Putin will stop? That sounds right. We have a willing partner there and exposed them as a fraud. 

Took old man Biden to have the stones to call Vlad’s bluff. Who knew!

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1 minute ago, thegeneral said:

Ukraine is where your boy Putin will stop? That sounds right. We have a willing partner there and exposed them as a fraud. 

Took old man Biden to have the stones to call Vlad’s bluff. Who knew!

my boy putin?  again who is our partner?  incase you haven't been here, which we know another alias,  I am against russia and ukraine

they are the two most corrupt countries in europe

 

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1 hour ago, RaiderHaters Revenge said:

my boy putin?  again who is our partner?  incase you haven't been here, which we know another alias,  I am against russia and ukraine

they are the two most corrupt countries in europe

 

Ukraine is serving as a nice buffer for our allies in NATO. Because they were willing to be our proxy here we have aligned NATO again, grown its membership, and exposed Putin as a fraud and his military power as 2nd rate.

This has been handled as well as anything Biden and State Dept have done. A huge success thus far to a very tenuous situation.  

Ukraine may be corrupt, hey who isn’t, but they have served a purpose and shown moxie no one knew existed. 

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5 minutes ago, thegeneral said:

Ukraine is serving as a nice buffer for our allies in NATO. Because they were willing to be our proxy here we have aligned NATO again, grown its membership, and exposed Putin as a fraud and his military power as 2nd rate.

This has been handled as well as anything Biden and State Dept have done. A huge success thus far to a very tenuous situation.  

Ukraine may be corrupt, hey who isn’t, but they have served a purpose and shown moxie no one knew existed. 

right.............quid pro joe is amazing

 

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36 minutes ago, RaiderHaters Revenge said:

right.............quid pro joe is amazing

 

Don’t get this reference but in any case, allow Putin to stroll though Eastern Europe, with our elections, be a little in general or tell him to pound sand and expose his murderous ass as a fraud and leader of a 2nd rate army of misfits. I’ll take the latter. 

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1 minute ago, thegeneral said:

Don’t get this reference but in any case, allow Putin to stroll though Eastern Europe, with our elections, be a little in general or tell him to pound sand and expose his murderous ass as a fraud and leader of a 2nd rate army of misfits. I’ll take the latter. 

pimpledoosh here will cheer on the wsr in Ukraine, but fight in it? No way. Doesn't want to get his dress dirty.

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2 minutes ago, thegeneral said:

Don’t get this reference but in any case, allow Putin to stroll though Eastern Europe, with our elections, be a little in general or tell him to pound sand and expose his murderous ass as a fraud and leader of a 2nd rate army of misfits. I’ll take the latter. 

right of course you dont get it

quid pro joe commits quid pro quo and when Trump asks about it, you scream impeeeeeeeeeeeeechhhhhhhhhhhhhh

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Just now, RaiderHaters Revenge said:

right of course you dont get it

quid pro joe commits quid pro quo and when Trump asks about it, you scream impeeeeeeeeeeeeechhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Trump was blackmailing Ukraine so he could have them make up for him. They hung up and had no clue what he was talking about 😂😂

What are you talking about.

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Just now, thegeneral said:

Trump was blackmailing Ukraine so he could have them make up for him. They hung up and had no clue what he was talking about 😂😂

What are you talking about.

Trump was blackmailing Ukraine....lol asking him why Quid pro joe was withholding funds unless they fire the prosecutor investigating Hunters biz

you go girl

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When the Russians took Crimea Obama/ Biden did nothing. Trump game them weapons. And when Biden got into office he lifted sanctions that Trump had placed on Russia. And when Russia began massing his troops in the border Biden did nothing. These are facts, and they cannot be disputed. 

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4 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

When the Russians took Crimea Obama/ Biden did nothing. Trump game them weapons. And when Biden got into office he lifted sanctions that Trump had placed on Russia. And when Russia began massing his troops in the border Biden did nothing. These are facts, and they cannot be disputed. 

You're wrong. There were sanctions against Russia.

HT since February 2021: We should be sending aid to Ukraine. We should stay out of it and spend that money at home. :mad:

HT today: Obama did nothing, and Trump did a lot to aid Ukraine. Yay Trump! :wub:

:first:

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Just now, Pimpadeaux said:

You're wrong. There were sanctions against Russia.

HT since February 2021: We should be sending aid to Ukraine. We should stay out of it and spend that money at home. :mad:

HT today: Obama did nothing, and Trump did a lot to aid Ukraine. Yay Trump! :wub:

:first:

You don’t read so good. I said he lifted sanctions that Trump had put in place. I didn’t say there were no sanctions. 

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Just now, Hardcore troubadour said:

You don’t read so good. I said he lifted sanctions that Trump had put in place. I didn’t say there were no sanctions. 

You said Obama/Biden did "nothing." That's your exact word. They issued sanctions.

So it was OK that Trump sent stuff over there but not OK for Biden to send stuff over there.

And I'll bet you eleventy billion dollars that the sanctions we've issued on Russia since February 2021 are far greater than anything under Humpty Dumpty Trumpty.

🤣

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1 minute ago, Pimpadeaux said:

You said Obama/Biden did "nothing." That's your exact word. They issued sanctions.

So it was OK that Trump sent stuff over there but not OK for Biden to send stuff over there.

And I'll bet you eleventy billion dollars that the sanctions we've issued on Russia since February 2021 are far greater than anything under Humpty Dumpty Trumpty.

🤣

Yeah, the sanctions worked out great. Russia invaded Ukraine. They didn’t arm Ukraine when Ukraine begged for them. I guess Russian aggression wasn’t a thing back then.   Blankets. 

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1 hour ago, seafoam1 said:

pimpledoosh here will cheer on the wsr in Ukraine, but fight in it? No way. Doesn't want to get his dress dirty.

I’m a lover not a fighter. WTF is a pimpledoosh, is this a condition your family inbreeding has caused?

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59 minutes ago, RaiderHaters Revenge said:

here I will play this stupid game with you

WHATABOUTISM TIME?

oh man you probably complain about fake news and here you post this 😂

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Just now, thegeneral said:

I’m a lover not a fighter. WTF is a pimpledoosh, is this a condition your family inbreeding has caused?

It's me. My handle used to be Rusty Syringes, but snowflakes like seafoam1 ran out of ointment to sooth their butthurt and kept reporting me, so I got permabanned after three or four suspensions. 

I've had this handle since 2004 and used it quite a bit back in the day as a change-of-pace handle, never denying that it was Rusty who created it.

I've still got my Rusty handle over at FBGs but rarely use it. 

It's more fun being here and ruffling those cro-MAGAtard feathers.

:banana:

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