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TimmySmith

Saudi Golf Tour

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6 minutes ago, listen2me 23 said:

I just don't see how you can award OWR pts to a league with a totally different format than any other golf tour ever.  You are probably right but I don't understand it.    

It still won't benefit the viewer.  Ok lets say they all get to play thr majors if qualified.  Good.  That would be great.  That is the same as it always has been.  They just play way less if any other events.  Down from previous alignment. 

Viewer gets less anyway you cut it.  Surely not more.   

I guess it depends how one wants to look at it. Less too talent in most PGA events? Or more overall product to watch with 14 weeks of a new  league? … and If the PGA lifts bans, you’ll have all the top talent at the players, memorial, etc. 

The PGA has already made changes because of LIV but those admittedly benefit the players not really the fans. Although if the PGA ultimately winds up contracting its top talent, it may build clauses into those contracts saying that they have to play some of the historically lesser attended events, which would benefit the viewer. 

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17 minutes ago, WhiteWonder said:

I’d bet LIV gets awarded OWR points as the majors don’t want to eventually lose out on 25% of their biggest names. 

I don't see how this can happen either. What I see is the LIV will probably have 15 events a year and those events will be scheduled around lower end PGA events.  If you play the LIV you just forfeit the opportunity to get points.  Basically the same way it works now. 

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10 minutes ago, WhiteWonder said:

I guess it depends how one wants to look at it. Less too talent in most PGA events? Or more overall product to watch with 14 weeks of a new  league? … and If the PGA lifts bans, you’ll have all the top talent at the players, memorial, etc. 

The PGA has already made changes because of LIV but those admittedly benefit the players not really the fans. Although if the PGA ultimately winds up contracting its top talent, it may build clauses into those contracts saying that they have to play some of the historically lesser attended events, which would benefit the viewer. 

I am not that interested in watching LIV golf.  But yeah I guess there would be "more golf". But there is more golf now with LIV events.  

I don't think all thr players that usually play would come to thr Memorial and a few other big ones.  They have made their money and enjoy more free time.  Maybe they would.  

I guess if you love to watch LIV golf (I am not even sure where they air it at the moment) then there is more golf.  

The PGA Tour season won't be as stacked as it has been.  That is just obvious.    

Depends how you look at it.  In the fall I watch college and pro football on the weekends.  

The product will be diluted even if they come to common ground.   I hope they do eventually so we can at least get fully stacked major championships.   

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4 minutes ago, listen2me 23 said:

I am not that interested in watching LIV golf.  But yeah I guess there would be "more golf". But there is more golf now with LIV events.  

I don't think all thr players that usually play would come to thr Memorial and a few other big ones.  They have made their money and enjoy more free time.  Maybe they would.  

I guess if you love to watch LIV golf (I am not even sure where they air it at the moment) then there is more golf.  

The PGA Tour season won't be as stacked as it has been.  That is just obvious.    

Depends how you look at it.  In the fall I watch college and pro football on the weekends.  

The product will be diluted even if they come to common ground.   I hope they do eventually so we can at least get fully stacked major championships.   

Your desire to watch LIV golf may depend on what it becomes. They only had 3 test run events this year.  They will be moving to a 14 event season with set teams for the team aspect. At the moment you could only stream it on their website. I would guess someone will pick it up for coverage. It’s never going to replace the PGA tour for me but I can see myself tuning in here and there. 

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14 minutes ago, TimmySmith said:

I don't see how this can happen either. What I see is the LIV will probably have 15 events a year and those events will be scheduled around lower end PGA events.  If you play the LIV you just forfeit the opportunity to get points.  Basically the same way it works now. 

Why not? What is so vastly different? PGA has no cut events that award points doesn’t it? I could be wrong. 
 

seems like the main difference is the 3 round aspect. It’s still a golf tournament and they still place 1st through last 🤷🏻‍♂️

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Just now, WhiteWonder said:

Your desire to watch LIV golf may depend on what it becomes. They only had 3 test run events this year.  They will be moving to a 14 event season with set teams for the team aspect. At the moment you could only stream it on their website. I would guess someone will pick it up for coverage. It’s never going to replace the PGA tour for me but I can see myself tuning in here and there. 

Yeah it depends what it becomes.  The team aspect doesn't interest me at all.  Prestige does matter to me. And maybe their events will eventually carry some prestige if the field is stacked.  But I predicted this from the start.  Look at the winners at the LIV events.  Stenson? I doubt the top players will be grinding as hard when they get 100 mill up front and an ok check for mailing it in and placing last.  A lot of middling players are gping to win these events.  

Events that matter in sports is what gets me going.  I am no longer an NBA fan.  But say top players played offseason in the Big 3 format.  Yes good players but does winning matter?  Do they care much to win?   I love me some NFL but you could put every top player in thr pro bowl and I still don't care about it because it doesn't matter.

Yeah it all depends on what it becomes.  But just seems like a beer league with good players as of now.  

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4 minutes ago, WhiteWonder said:

Why not? What is so vastly different? PGA has no cut events that award points doesn’t it? I could be wrong. 
 

seems like the main difference is the 3 round aspect. It’s still a golf tournament and they still place 1st through last 🤷🏻‍♂️

It is still golf.  

But all short no cut events.  3 days.  Shotgun start.  

It isn't the same game even if it kind of is.  

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6 minutes ago, listen2me 23 said:

It is still golf.  

But all short no cut events.  3 days.  Shotgun start.  

It isn't the same game even if it kind of is.  

Yes but I’m trying to understand which part would make it hard to award OWR points? Shotgun start shouldn’t matter at all. Cut or no cut shouldn’t matter. So it’s just the three rounds versus four?

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15 minutes ago, WhiteWonder said:

Why not? What is so vastly different? PGA has no cut events that award points doesn’t it? I could be wrong. 
 

seems like the main difference is the 3 round aspect. It’s still a golf tournament and they still place 1st through last 🤷🏻‍♂️

I see your point, however I disagree.  You play the LIV, you're not at a PGA Tour event and can't get points.  The Fedex Cup is a PGA event.  I think we can be reasonable that they can exist separately.  

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Just now, TimmySmith said:

I see your point, however I disagree.  You play the LIV, you're not at a PGA Tour event and can't get points.  The Fedex Cup is a PGA event.  I think we can be reasonable that they can exist separately.  

I’m talking about OWR points not fedex points. OWR points that are awarded on other tours and will be needed by some to qualify for future majors. 

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Just now, WhiteWonder said:

I’m talking about OWR points not fedex points. OWR points that are awarded on other tours and will be needed by some to qualify for future majors. 

I understand.  Still disagree. The LIV needs a points system of it's own. It's too gimmicky to be comparable.  

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10 minutes ago, WhiteWonder said:

Yes but I’m trying to understand which part would make it hard to award OWR points? Shotgun start shouldn’t matter at all. Cut or no cut shouldn’t matter. So it’s just the three rounds versus four?

Shotgun start is wonky because courses are designed 1 way.  You finish om 5 instead of 18 you are taking away the intent of the design.  One guy may start on a hole that is wide open playing the easiest on the course.  Another may start his week off on the toughest hole that is playing over par.  Yes they play the same holes but there is some difference there.  

3 rounds instead of 4 is the biggest.  

Sure you can award the pts but you would be awarding the same points in different formats.  Perhaps LIV tournaments get low level pts.  Least points of all tournaments.  I don't know.  

I am no tennis buff.  But what if ranking points were the same but one tour played less sets or games? Same sport but it is different, no?

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If they get OWR points and can eventually play in any event they want.....i dont see why all the top guys wouldn't just take a chunk of signing bonus and hop over to LIV.  Since they have the options to play in any PGA events they qualify for.  Why wouldnt any player who can get a 50-150mill sign deal not do it?

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13 minutes ago, listen2me 23 said:

 

I am no tennis buff.  But what if ranking points were the same but one tour played less sets or games? Same sport but it is different, no?

i dont care at all about tennis so can't comment much on that. Are games and sets part of the "rules" of tennis? I dont believe rounds or starting hole are part of the rules of golf...  the PGA can award OWR points for a modified stableford scored tournament rather than a traditionally scored one. 

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13 minutes ago, listen2me 23 said:

If they get OWR points and can eventually play in any event they want.....i dont see why all the top guys wouldn't just take a chunk of signing bonus and hop over to LIV.  Since they have the options to play in any PGA events they qualify for.  Why wouldnt any player who can get a 50-150mill sign deal not do it?

well they only care about owr points because of the majors. Some players would be exempt for a while based on recent wins (Phils PGa, Cams Open, DJ's Masters, etc) but they would eventually need points to qualify based on world ranking. It's not about playing in any PGA event. 

Signing bonuses will be gone soon, if not gone already. By the time we know if LIV guys will earn owr points or not, or if the PGA is forced to lift their ban or not, there definitely wont be any more signing bonuses going around. Thats why these guys had a decision to make.

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25 minutes ago, TimmySmith said:

I understand.  Still disagree. The LIV needs a points system of it's own. It's too gimmicky to be comparable.  

why does it need a points system of its own? There was a PGA tour before the invention of the Fedex Cup.... which wasn't even well received at first. There was a Euro tour before "the race to dubai" or whatever it is they have. All of these are separate from the world rankings points their players can earn. 

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2 minutes ago, WhiteWonder said:

well they only care about owr points because of the majors. Some players would be exempt for a while based on recent wins (Phils PGa, Cams Open, DJ's Masters, etc) but they would eventually need points to qualify based on world ranking. It's not about playing in any PGA event. 

Signing bonuses will be gone soon, if not gone already. By the time we know if LIV guys will earn owr points or not, or if the PGA is forced to lift their ban or not, there definitely wont be any more signing bonuses going around. Thats why these guys had a decision to make.

If LIV said hey we have 12 tournaments and they will basically be played around the PGA schedule for the most part.  We will give you xxx amount of money to jump here but you have to play in 10 out of 12 of these and you are free to play any other tour events other times.  They would still have some incentive to give out a bonus.  Right? Maybe I am typing too fast and not making any sense here.  

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1 minute ago, listen2me 23 said:

If LIV said hey we have 12 tournaments and they will basically be played around the PGA schedule for the most part.  We will give you xxx amount of money to jump here but you have to play in 10 out of 12 of these and you are free to play any other tour events other times.  They would still have some incentive to give out a bonus.  Right? Maybe I am typing too fast and not making any sense here.  

So from what I gather, the LIV season will be 14 events. LIV is not keeping its golfers from playing in other events on other tours (events that do not conflict with their contracted schedule of course). LIV golf is capping itself at 48 golfers. Now of course this year we saw PGA guys jump over after the first event or after the second event and contracts were still being given out. It sounds like the contracts will be done and the rosters will be set before next season in March. 

Would they boot their least important player and give a fresh contract to Rory if he asked to join? Yes but there won't be anymore contracts for the Jason Kokraks of the world. 

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6 minutes ago, WhiteWonder said:

So from what I gather, the LIV season will be 14 events. LIV is not keeping its golfers from playing in other events on other tours (events that do not conflict with their contracted schedule of course). LIV golf is capping itself at 48 golfers. Now of course this year we saw PGA guys jump over after the first event or after the second event and contracts were still being given out. It sounds like the contracts will be done and the rosters will be set before next season in March. 

Would they boot their least important player and give a fresh contract to Rory if he asked to join? Yes but there won't be anymore contracts for the Jason Kokraks of the world. 

Well thats what I mean.  Lets say by next year they work something out to coexist.  Why wouldn't LIV offer the rest of the top names a decent chunk of cash to play in their events? And why wouldn't the top players take it if asked? ... if they can still earn OWR pts and play in most any PGA or World DP event they want?   

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8 minutes ago, listen2me 23 said:

Well thats what I mean.  Lets say by next year they work something out to coexist.  Why wouldn't LIV offer the rest of the top names a decent chunk of cash to play in their events? And why wouldn't the top players take it if asked? ... if they can still earn OWR pts and play in most any PGA or World DP event they want?   

guess we will find out. Some guys might not take it because of their image... especially after being so outspoken against it (Rory, JT), some may not be super outspoken but may genuinely have a moral issue.. 

and there is a lot thats going to play out with lawsuits and possible changes the PGA makes to appease its own players in terms of more $$

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4 hours ago, KSB2424 said:

100M up front. Hard to turn down.  

To bad their golf legacy takes a hit and they will be branded for life. 

$100 M beats golf legacy. Ya take the $ from them. 

At this point the PGA needs to say ok, you can play in both and that makes the LIV just a place where you cash a check and hit a golf ball around. Then it eventually folds.

A guy like Kokrak would love to make free $ and get drunk all weekend.

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1 hour ago, WhiteWonder said:

guess we will find out. Some guys might not take it because of their image... especially after being so outspoken against it (Rory, JT), some may not be super outspoken but may genuinely have a moral issue.. 

and there is a lot thats going to play out with lawsuits and possible changes the PGA makes to appease its own players in terms of more $$

Yeah I could see the vocal guys sticking to their guns.

But like HOV Morikawa Cantlay Xander Burns and so on.  

It would be a no brainer.  The golf world would have already accepted Saudi stuff so people cant really get on them.

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12 hours ago, KSB2424 said:

100M up front. Hard to turn down.  

To bad their golf legacy takes a hit and they will be branded for life. 

Would you rather have 1 major win and $100m

or 

Be Todd Hamilton, Shaun Micheel, Ben Curtis, Michael Campbell or Rich Beem with 1 major win and a legacy that nobody cares about.....and no $100m? 

 

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8 hours ago, Cruzer said:

Would you rather have 1 major win and $100m

or 

Be Todd Hamilton, Shaun Micheel, Ben Curtis, Michael Campbell or Rich Beem with 1 major win and a legacy that nobody cares about.....and no $100m? 

 

if anyone gave a sh1t about them and they were offered 100 million, they would have signed up no questions. 

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3 hours ago, edjr said:

if anyone gave a sh1t about them and they were offered 100 million, they would have signed up no questions. 

I really wasn't trying to be funny or a diick, was asking on a serious note. 

If you're Jack, Tiger, Arnie or any other of a handful of legends, sure - legacies are a thing. But to many, I would guess, legacies are something in their own heads.

Honestly, does anyone under 50 even know Andy North won 2 US Opens? How about Bob Rosburg - does anyone even know he won a major, wasn't just a golf announcer......what's his legacy? 

From a personal standpoint, I'm fk'n bummed to hear Cam may bolt. I love watching his game, be a damn shame to not see him play anymore. 

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4 minutes ago, Cruzer said:

I really wasn't trying to be funny or a diick, was asking on a serious note. 

If you're Jack, Tiger, Arnie or any other of a handful of legends, sure - legacies are a thing. But to many, I would guess, legacies are something in their own heads.

Honestly, does anyone under 50 even know Andy North he won 2 US Opens? How about Bob Rosburg - does anyone even know he won a major, wasn't just a golf announcer......what's his legacy? 

From a personal standpoint, I'm fk'n bummed to hear Cam may bolt. I love watching his game, be a damn shame to not see him play anymore. 

Andy who? 
 

Couples and Love only won 1 major each. Pretty embarrassing if you ask me. They'd have been better off playing on another tour and not showing us how they wasted their talent.

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20 minutes ago, edjr said:

Andy who? 

Couples and Love only won 1 major each. Pretty embarrassing if you ask me. They'd have been better off playing on another tour and not showing us how they wasted their talent.

Golf Majors: Predict How Many Each Player Will Ultimately Win - The Geek Club - FFToday Forums

I always remember this thread, so many predicting outrageous numbers of major wins down the road. At the time, I said Geeks were handing out major wins like Halloween Candy. 

Majors are so hard to win, Couples and DL3 are proof positive of that... But it just goes to show, least imo, legacies are way overrated in this sport. Faldo cranked out 6 majors and was a RC titan - sadly, will be best known (by millennials) as a golf analyst - some legacy. 

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On 8/9/2022 at 1:45 PM, WhiteWonder said:

 

Would they boot their least important player and give a fresh contract to Rory if he asked to join? Yes but there won't be anymore contracts for the Jason Kokraks of the world. 

So whats the answer to this? If its capped at 48 and they tell the other koepka that he's out, that would make for an interesting confrontation. If ya just got booted off the PGA, and then booted off this, ya better have bank that $ cause ya got no job.

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8 minutes ago, lod001 said:

So whats the answer to this? If its capped at 48 and they tell the other koepka that he's out, that would make for an interesting confrontation. If ya just got booted off the PGA, and then booted off this, ya better have bank that $ cause ya got no job.

Did Chase even have his card? If he didn’t, can’t he just go to Q school, play Korn Ferry, and earn his card? Or have they said anyone affiliated with LIV is forever banished?

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1 hour ago, bostonlager said:

Did Chase even have his card? If he didn’t, can’t he just go to Q school, play Korn Ferry, and earn his card? Or have they said anyone affiliated with LIV is forever banished?

No idea. I just picked him because they are brothers. He was playing on some tour. Just wondering about the lesser golfers past #48.

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On 8/9/2022 at 12:53 PM, listen2me 23 said:

It is still golf.  

But all short no cut events.  3 days.  Shotgun start.  

It isn't the same game even if it kind of is.  

Close your eyes and think.....what if The Saudi Arabian Government with no limit pockets decided to create an Arena Football League.  Then they offered all the good NFL players hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars up front to play.  And it was only 10 games a year,  3 Periods (thanks Hockey!@#!) a game and was sponsored by MTV.   It's still football!   And several of the better players from your favorite team jumped ship, sold out for the cash (can't blame them really right?).  But would you still be on board?  Or would it just feel icky and wrong and focked up?  

Exactly. 

 

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4 hours ago, lod001 said:

So whats the answer to this? If its capped at 48 and they tell the other koepka that he's out, that would make for an interesting confrontation. If ya just got booted off the PGA, and then booted off this, ya better have bank that $ cause ya got no job.

Well id honestly say Chase is probably safe because of Brooks. I am sure there are lesser names who will not be around after the next wave of guys who announce post fedex cup.  We know about Cam and Leishman... wonder about Rickie, Adam Scott, Justin Rose, Jason Day, Kooch?

there are definitely lesser guys who got very minimal signing bonuses.

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