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TimmySmith

Saudi Golf Tour

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3 hours ago, listen2me 23 said:

LIV had a better field than the Honda.  Yet the Honda was the far more interesting tournament. Apparently.  I didn't watch LIV. 

I said it from the start.   Lower level guys are going to win the tournaments.  They are going all out.  The names who are paid will just show up.  The small field is going to lead to run away victories.   Or 3rd rounds with 2 guys in the mix.  Howell won it at 16 under.  T5 was 6 under.  

I'm not disagreeing with you, but it is funny to state you didn't watch any LIV but that the Honda was the far more interesting tournament. You're right, it was... but you're just basing that off the margin of victory in LIV and nothing else. Which is fair, but you get what I'm saying. 

It really has nothing to do with the field size. Once the cut happens, PGA events don't have too many more guys playing on Saturday and Sunday than a LIV event. Plus, in these "non elevated" events, LIV has the stronger fields. 

PGA events should still be competitive at the top because now, the likes of Chris Kirk, Eric Cole, Tyler Duncan and Ryan Girard can battle it out on Sunday afternoon. It's still fun for a true golf fan to watch (I watched much more PGA than LIV today), but everyone is waiting for Arnie's tournament field. In a way, this is a drawback of the elevated event response the PGA had for LIV. 

I agree, the issue with LIV is that the guys being paid less on their initial contracts are more incentivized than the guys who got $50-$200 mil just to sign on. I guess it all boils down to how much money is enough though, because you still get paid much more handsomely for winning the event and the year end winning team is still paid pretty well. 

It would have been better, structure wise, if the contracts LIV handed out upfront were not as big and instead, the event purses were even bigger than they currently are. Still keep the contracts because that's what guys wanted along with more off time / time with family via 3 rounds and less events plus no grinding for cuts.  Unfortunately, in order to get the thing off the ground with some star power, they had to come out swinging with the huge up front money.  

Charles Howell took home 4 million for his win and split another 3 million with his team for the team title. I find it hard to believe that these guys who have been painted as so greedy (like the PGA isn't), don't want to win a LIV event and take home 4-5 mil. Again, that might come down to a guy like DJ getting 150 mil up front and now not caring if he wins 4 mil or 120k. Ultimately, that might be one of the issues they need to tweak. You don't need to have a cut, but a guy shouldn't be able to come in last place at 23 over par and take home 120k. No cut still leaves incentive to try and climb the leaderboard on Sunday.... but if you can finish so far down the leaderboard and still take home 120-200k... that's another reason these guys don't need to compete. T20 should not be winning almost 200k. 

I am all for golfers being contracted and I am all for bigger event purses. I don't think there is something sacred about a cut or 72 hole events. But there still needs to be a little fight/more incentive while playing the actual event and I think the easiest way to fix that is to drastically decrease the amount guys are taking home for finishing near the bottom and to widen that pay gap as you move on up the leaderboard. 

the shotgun start thing is absolutely awful. That needs to go. Oddly enough, while I found the team thing to be silly last year, I think it could be kind of cool now. Last year it seemed like they were drafting new teams for each event. I guess just testing it out. Assuming they keep the teams mostly the same (aside from new guys joining) all year, it does add a semi fun element. The Aussies are all on one team, the South Africans on another. Brooks is on a team with his brother. Another team has Poulter, Stenson and Westwood for a Ryder Cup flavor. It seems better than I anticipated in that regard. 

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6 hours ago, WhiteWonder said:

I'm not disagreeing with you, but it is funny to state you didn't watch any LIV but that the Honda was the far more interesting tournament. You're right, it was... but you're just basing that off the margin of victory in LIV and nothing else. Which is fair, but you get what I'm saying. 

It really has nothing to do with the field size. Once the cut happens, PGA events don't have too many more guys playing on Saturday and Sunday than a LIV event. Plus, in these "non elevated" events, LIV has the stronger fields. 

PGA events should still be competitive at the top because now, the likes of Chris Kirk, Eric Cole, Tyler Duncan and Ryan Girard can battle it out on Sunday afternoon. It's still fun for a true golf fan to watch (I watched much more PGA than LIV today), but everyone is waiting for Arnie's tournament field. In a way, this is a drawback of the elevated event response the PGA had for LIV. 

I agree, the issue with LIV is that the guys being paid less on their initial contracts are more incentivized than the guys who got $50-$200 mil just to sign on. I guess it all boils down to how much money is enough though, because you still get paid much more handsomely for winning the event and the year end winning team is still paid pretty well. 

It would have been better, structure wise, if the contracts LIV handed out upfront were not as big and instead, the event purses were even bigger than they currently are. Still keep the contracts because that's what guys wanted along with more off time / time with family via 3 rounds and less events plus no grinding for cuts.  Unfortunately, in order to get the thing off the ground with some star power, they had to come out swinging with the huge up front money.  

Charles Howell took home 4 million for his win and split another 3 million with his team for the team title. I find it hard to believe that these guys who have been painted as so greedy (like the PGA isn't), don't want to win a LIV event and take home 4-5 mil. Again, that might come down to a guy like DJ getting 150 mil up front and now not caring if he wins 4 mil or 120k. Ultimately, that might be one of the issues they need to tweak. You don't need to have a cut, but a guy shouldn't be able to come in last place at 23 over par and take home 120k. No cut still leaves incentive to try and climb the leaderboard on Sunday.... but if you can finish so far down the leaderboard and still take home 120-200k... that's another reason these guys don't need to compete. T20 should not be winning almost 200k. 

I am all for golfers being contracted and I am all for bigger event purses. I don't think there is something sacred about a cut or 72 hole events. But there still needs to be a little fight/more incentive while playing the actual event and I think the easiest way to fix that is to drastically decrease the amount guys are taking home for finishing near the bottom and to widen that pay gap as you move on up the leaderboard. 

the shotgun start thing is absolutely awful. That needs to go. Oddly enough, while I found the team thing to be silly last year, I think it could be kind of cool now. Last year it seemed like they were drafting new teams for each event. I guess just testing it out. Assuming they keep the teams mostly the same (aside from new guys joining) all year, it does add a semi fun element. The Aussies are all on one team, the South Africans on another. Brooks is on a team with his brother. Another team has Poulter, Stenson and Westwood for a Ryder Cup flavor. It seems better than I anticipated in that regard. 

Yes I am basing it off that and said as much.  One had drama and a playoff and a 4th round with several guys you felt had a chance.  The other didn't.   

Field size does matter.   You will get more close finishes.  It is just logic.  1 guy can go off and shoot much better than 50 other guys more often than a guy can separate from 140 man fields.  You get 3 shooters in the 3 pt contest and 1 guy could win by 12.  You get 8 shooters and there is much more chance of it going down to the wire.  This is simple logic and numbers.  

I am not against LIV existing.  But I just call it how I see it.  Doesnt interest me a whole lot.  Maybe it could but not the way it is set up now.  

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12 hours ago, patweisers44 said:

Not  brendan steele!!!  Who is @edjr gonna take in the 5th round of the next SpEdex event?

GOOD RIDDANCE!

  • Haha 1

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LIV is not a good product with the college feel to it.  I now think they need to go 100% hoity toity, wear knickers and such and become the “high class” tour to play on.

 

it might just work.

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I miss many of the LIV guys no longer here, but I thought it was kinda cool to see so many new young guys who can flat out play. 
 

On a side note, guess the PGA is the latest to give Jay-Boy the middle finger and allow LIV guts to play in yet another major…….Good.

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7 hours ago, listen2me 23 said:

Yes I am basing it off that and said as much.  One had drama and a playoff and a 4th round with several guys you felt had a chance.  The other didn't.   

Field size does matter.   You will get more close finishes.  It is just logic.  1 guy can go off and shoot much better than 50 other guys more often than a guy can separate from 140 man fields.  You get 3 shooters in the 3 pt contest and 1 guy could win by 12.  You get 8 shooters and there is much more chance of it going down to the wire.  This is simple logic and numbers.  

I am not against LIV existing.  But I just call it how I see it.  Doesnt interest me a whole lot.  Maybe it could but not the way it is set up now.  

To be fair though, you wouldn't really know if one had drama if you admittedly didn't tune in. a 4 shot victory could have been a 1 shot lead heading into the last hole and the guy chasing went for it.. etc.   

Again, you're not wrong, I just had to point it out that looking at the leaderboard doesn't always tell the story.

 

I do think you are totally wrong on the field size. Look at some great events on the PGA Tour such as the Sentry TOC, the Tour Championship (both smaller fields than any LIV event with no cuts), the BMW championship (field of 70, going down to 50 this year)... the first playoff event, the Fedex St Jude, is now down to a 70 man field. The Dell Match Play, the other WGC events as well. 

I understand the basic concept behind your 3 point contest analogy but look at this years event. The final round of 3 was much closer than the round of 8 where you had a high of 31 and lows of 13 and 8 :lol:

 

There are a few issues that lead to LIV events likely being less competitive, but field size is down the list. 

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Just now, WhiteWonder said:

To be fair though, you wouldn't really know if one had drama if you admittedly didn't tune in. a 4 shot victory could have been a 1 shot lead heading into the last hole and the guy chasing went for it.. etc.   

Again, you're not wrong, I just had to point it out that looking at the leaderboard doesn't always tell the story.

 

I do think you are totally wrong on the field size. Look at some great events on the PGA Tour such as the Sentry TOC, the Tour Championship (both smaller fields than any LIV event with no cuts), the BMW championship (field of 70, going down to 50 this year)... the first playoff event, the Fedex St Jude, is now down to a 70 man field. The Dell Match Play, the other WGC events as well. 

I understand the basic concept behind your 3 point contest analogy but look at this years event. The final round of 3 was much closer than the round of 8 where you had a high of 31 and lows of 13 and 8 :lol:

 

There are a few issues that lead to LIV events likely being less competitive, but field size is down the list. 

I didn't claim there were no smaller field events on the PGA schedule.  Im not saying a smaller field can't be a good event.  

I stand by the field size because it is a logical conclusion.  3 rounds and small fields will produce more winners who run away.  Is it some big correlation that will happen in half their events? No, but it will happen more than it does in 140 man 4 round events.  

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LIV is exhibition golf.  Its All Star Weekend or your own Country Clubs type weekend tournament. It’s just backed by a bazillion dollars from the Saudi Government. Whatever.  Truth be told, I’d take the money too, but I’m a Wh00re as well.  

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3 hours ago, KSB2424 said:

It’s stuff like this.

 

😂

Master fishing account 

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Is it true the PGA has approved changing the elevated events in 2024 to be smaller fields, around 70 golfers, with no cuts?

😂😂😂
 

and TGL (Tiger and Rory’s golf league) with team events played in prime time with golfers mic’d up is also a go for 2024?

🤣🤣🤣

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8 hours ago, WhiteWonder said:

Is it true the PGA has approved changing the elevated events in 2024 to be smaller fields, around 70 golfers, with no cuts?

😂😂😂
 

and TGL (Tiger and Rory’s golf league) with team events played in prime time with golfers mic’d up is also a go for 2024?

🤣🤣🤣

Not a fan of tournys like Arnie's bei g nk cut.  There is room for WGC events.  But not a fan of adding more.  

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5 hours ago, listen2me 23 said:

Not a fan of tournys like Arnie's bei g nk cut.  There is room for WGC events.  But not a fan of adding more.  

It would be changing 8-11 elevated events to no cuts

PGA is scared to death to lose more talent to LiV. 

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B, b, b, b, b, but - no cuts isn't golf, that's an exhibition... WAAAAAAAHAHAHAHA! 🤣

Jay-boy continues to impress. 

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Was watching LIV today.  Feels much more like golf is supposed to be than prison.

They let golfers wear shorts :o   Imagine that?

The field is way better and more recognizable. 

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4 hours ago, edjr said:

Was watching LIV today.  Feels much more like golf is supposed to be than prison.

They let golfers wear shorts :o   Imagine that?

The field is way better and more recognizable. 

Woah woah. PGA is all about those knee high joggers 

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20 hours ago, edjr said:

Was watching LIV today.  Feels much more like golf is supposed to be than prison.

They let golfers wear shorts :o   Imagine that?

The field is way better and more recognizable. 

You are so progressive. Call me (he/his) old fashioned but I don't want to look and dudes legs.   

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3 hours ago, listen2me 23 said:

You are so progressive. Call me (he/his) old fashioned but I don't want to look and dudes legs.   

What about their ankles and mid calves?

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3 hours ago, listen2me 23 said:

LIV has some good names.

Whos gonna win this week?  Howell or Steele?

Could be Oosthuizen. 

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This was the most LIV I’ve watched. 4 man playoff won by Danny Lee but included Steele, Louis and Carlos Ortiz. 
Lee’s team was out there spraying him with champagne when he made the winning putt from off the green. 
 

it still needs plenty of refining but again this was the 2nd event of its first full season. What I find interesting is that the team aspect doesn’t feel as forced as I thought it would. 
 

i still don’t expect guys like DJ and Phil who were paid so much up front to do anything but I think we forget a lot of these guys probably didn’t even get paid more than sponsorship deals for top PGA players. So I’m sure they are motivated to win an event for 4 million. 

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2 hours ago, WhiteWonder said:

What about their ankles and mid calves?

Jogger boys should go to LIV.  Not a fan.

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There’s like 40 golfers in LIV and they play a dozen events. Of course when matched up on a smaller PGA event week it looks like a better field based on “names” What a ridiculous statement. 
 

All the LIV fanboys are hilarious.  

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On 3/18/2023 at 5:17 PM, edjr said:

 

The field is way better and more recognizable. 

 

2 hours ago, KSB2424 said:

There’s like 40 golfers in LIV and they play a dozen events. Of course when matched up on a smaller PGA event week it looks like a better field based on “names” What a ridiculous statement. 
 

All the LIV fanboys are hilarious.  

 

🎣

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On 7/12/2022 at 11:54 AM, Alias Detective said:

LIV is the best thing to happen to golf.  The PGA needed shaken up and that's just what is happening.

Truth

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5 minutes ago, Alias Detective said:

Human rights!  :cry:

Thurston and Stewart or whoever runs the PGA would drown a sack of puppies to keep their cushy jobs 😂

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On 3/19/2023 at 9:25 PM, KSB2424 said:

There’s like 40 golfers in LIV and they play a dozen events. Of course when matched up on a smaller PGA event week it looks like a better field based on “names” What a ridiculous statement. 
 

All the LIV fanboys are hilarious.  

:lol:     Nostradumbass

  • Haha 2

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Do the players on LIV keep getting guaranteed cash? Does it become a playoff like thing like the FedEx thing on the tour. How did they keep this so quiet. So many questions.

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😂😂😂

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Do y’all really think the Tigers, Rory’s, Scotties, Rahms all of them won’t get compensated as part of this?  If they don’t they just unionize and strike.  But they will get paid because PIL has never ending money and influence (don’t ask how or why though :oldrolleyes: ).  We’re now fully in bed with them, hope you’re happy.  Professional Golf, as we once knew it is over.  

Im also a huge college basketball fan. My grandfather pulled for UNC, my Dad roots for UNC, my first vivid childhood memory was sitting up late as a six year old watching Jordan hit the shot then Worthy stealing the ball for the 82’ championship.  My kids are Tar Heel fans.  Going into this new season I barely know our roster. Covid years, NIL, Transfer Portals, Reclassifications, on and on.  The roster resets every year, you don’t grow fandom with the team(s).   It’s simply horrible for fans. 

Maybe I’m just getting old; but money ain’t everything. 

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37 minutes ago, KSB2424 said:

Do y’all really think the Tigers, Rory’s, Scotties, Rahms all of them won’t get compensated as part of this?  If they don’t they just unionize and strike.  But they will get paid because PIL has never ending money and influence (don’t ask how or why though :oldrolleyes: ).  We’re now fully in bed with them, hope you’re happy.  Professional Golf, as we once knew it is over.  

Im also a huge college basketball fan. My grandfather pulled for UNC, my Dad roots for UNC, my first vivid childhood memory was sitting up late as a six year old watching Jordan hit the shot then Worthy stealing the ball for the 82’ championship.  My kids are Tar Heel fans.  Going into this new season I barely know our roster. Covid years, NIL, Transfer Portals, Reclassifications, on and on.  The roster resets every year, you don’t grow fandom with the team(s).   It’s simply horrible for fans. 

Maybe I’m just getting old; but money ain’t everything. 

OK Boomer… err… Brandel … 

(even golf Chan analysts admit that PGA sponsors are in bed with Saudi money 😂

I’m not in disagreement with you that it’s sad it always boils down to $$ but I guess I find it hard to believe you are so out of touch to actually think that the PGA Tour cared about “history and prestige” and not their own money 😂

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1 minute ago, Fireballer said:

 

:lol:  Love it.. Go get em Brooks

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10 hours ago, thegeneral said:

Do the players on LIV keep getting guaranteed cash? Does it become a playoff like thing like the FedEx thing on the tour. How did they keep this so quiet. So many questions.

When most of them signed with LIV,  the PGA hadn't even banned them yet. Of course they get to keep the money. 

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