nuclear war - doomsday⌛

[Louie Kelcher 97]

41 minutes ago, JustinCharge said:

its weird that people obsess over climate change when there really is nothing we can do about it since china and developing nations are dumping so many pollutants everywhere, but here we could avert nuclear war by kicking warhawk democrats out of office like biden and making averting nuclear war the top priority which politicians would listen to, but we say nothing can be done. 

What would Trump, or a republican do, to avert nuclear war at this point?  Is the answer we just let Russia take Ukraine?

[Hawkeye21 1,848]

Just now, Louie Kelcher said:

What would Trump, or a republican do, to avert nuclear war at this point?  Is the answer we just let Russia take Ukraine?

This is pretty much all I've gathered from him.  I don't get his reasoning on any of his claims.

[Louie Kelcher 97]

Just now, Hawkeye21 said:

This is pretty much all I've gathered from him.  I don't get his reasoning on any of his claims.

He's Russian, he watches Russian media, and this is what they are saying.

[Hawkeye21 1,848]

Just now, Louie Kelcher said:

He's Russian, he watches Russian media, and this is what they are saying.

He does seem to follow a lot of Russian media and relay that info hear.  He's fully bought into it.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,576]

It’s funny to me when people think this all started when Russia invaded and take it from there. Simpletons. 

[Pimpadeaux 2,240]

13 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Rusty thinks Putin is worse than Hitler. I guess he also thinks that Hitler would not have used nukes if he had them.  That’s some fantastic logic right there. 

Once again, you're a fountain of misinformation. I've never said any of this. Fantastic pulling stuff out of your ass as usual.

[Hawkeye21 1,848]

1 minute ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

It’s funny to me when people think this all started when Russia invaded and take it from there. Simpletons. 

Who has said anything about that?  Justin said it would all be avoided if Trump was still President and that's what we're discussing.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,576]

The 1980’s called. They want their foreign policy back. 

[JustinCharge 2,397]

its all the same thing with these crazed liberals like rusty and timschoschet.  you point out that biden warns of nuclear war or the bulletin of atomic scientists moved the doomsday clock to the closest to war its ever been, and they ignore it.  they are not on this forum for genuine discourse.  they are here to troll.  dont discuss topics with them. 

[The Real timschochet 2,867]

13 minutes ago, JustinCharge said:

its all the same thing with these crazed liberals like rusty and timschoschet.  you point out that biden warns of nuclear war or the bulletin of atomic scientists moved the doomsday clock to the closest to war its ever been, and they ignore it.  they are not on this forum for genuine discourse.  they are here to troll.  dont discuss topics with them. 

Sigh. 
 

First off, nuclear war is not a liberal vs conservative issue. The fact that you think it is only adds to your insanity which on this subject (and a few others) is already off the charts. 

Second: I don’t care what Biden says or what time is on the Doomsday Clock: Putin is never going to start a nuclear war. Never. Because he knows that if he does Russia will be wiped off the map. It’s called Mutual Assured Destruction and it’s been the deterrent to nuclear war since 1948, and it’s not changing. So you can crawl out from under the covers, and walk out of your basement. 

[Hawkeye21 1,848]

16 minutes ago, JustinCharge said:

its all the same thing with these crazed liberals like rusty and timschoschet.  you point out that biden warns of nuclear war or the bulletin of atomic scientists moved the doomsday clock to the closest to war its ever been, and they ignore it.  they are not on this forum for genuine discourse.  they are here to troll.  dont discuss topics with them. 

You don't attempt to discuss though.  You either complain instantly or use your dumb comeback of 0011001010010, beep, boop nonsense.

[Baker Boy 1,477]

56 minutes ago, Louie Kelcher said:

What would Trump, or a republican do, to avert nuclear war at this point?  Is the answer we just let Russia take Ukraine?

Trump and the Republicans would’ve stop the war before it started.

[Louie Kelcher 97]

7 minutes ago, Baker Boy said:

Trump and the Republicans would’ve stop the war before it started.

What would they have done?

[JustinCharge 2,397]

1 hour ago, Louie Kelcher said:

What would Trump, or a republican do, to avert nuclear war at this point?  Is the answer we just let Russia take Ukraine?

Well we are currently supporting, funding, arming and training a coup that overthrew the Ukrianian government in Euromaiden.  Might want to fix that.  It wouldn't be the first time we took that step.  At one point, we stopped recognizing Taiwan as the legit Chinese government.  We can switch what government we recognize. 

[The Real timschochet 2,867]

Just now, Louie Kelcher said:

What would they have done?

“Do what you need to Vlad. I won’t get involved.”

[Baker Boy 1,477]

Just now, Louie Kelcher said:

What would they have done?

The first move would have been: Starting in March 2020 Russia build up the troops on the Ukrainian border to 100,000 by February 2021. March 2020 was the time to start putting more sanctions on the Russians not lift the Trump Sanctions that were already in place.

[The Real timschochet 2,867]

Just now, Baker Boy said:

The first move would have been: Starting in March 2020 Russia build up the troops on the Ukrainian border to 100,000 by February 2021. March 2020 was the time to start putting more sanctions on the Russians not lift the Trump Sanctions that were already in place.

Lol what Trump sanctions? Do you mean the Obama sanctions?

[Louie Kelcher 97]

2 minutes ago, JustinCharge said:

Well we are currently supporting, funding, arming and training a coup that overthrew the Ukrianian government in Euromaiden.  Might want to fix that.  It wouldn't be the first time we took that step.  At one point, we stopped recognizing Taiwan as the legit Chinese government.  We can switch what government we recognize. 

OK, so Trump will let Russia control Ukraine again?

[Louie Kelcher 97]

1 minute ago, Baker Boy said:

The first move would have been: Starting in March 2020 Russia build up the troops on the Ukrainian border to 100,000 by February 2021. March 2020 was the time to start putting more sanctions on the Russians not lift the Trump Sanctions that were already in place.

So your answer is more sanctions?  Don't we have a ton of sanctions now?  What would Trump do differently?

[Hardcore troubadour 12,576]

11 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

“Do what you need to Vlad. I won’t get involved.”

“This is my last election, tell Vlad I’ll have a lot more flexibility when it’s over “ 

[Baker Boy 1,477]

6 minutes ago, Louie Kelcher said:

So your answer is more sanctions?  Don't we have a ton of sanctions now?  What would Trump do differently?

Reread my post you are not close to what I wrote.

[Baker Boy 1,477]

11 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Lol what Trump sanctions? Do you mean the Obama sanctions?

Wow, you don’t remember the Nord Stream 2 natural gas pipeline? (a sanction lifted by Biden) There are more but I’m not going to waste my time on you.

[Louie Kelcher 97]

4 minutes ago, Baker Boy said:

Reread my post you are not close to what I wrote.

You wrote that we should go back in time.  As far as I know, we don't have a time machine, so when Trump wins the next election, how does he stop nuclear war?  It's a simple question if you think you can answer it.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,576]

3 minutes ago, Baker Boy said:

Wow, you don’t remember the Nord Stream 2 natural gas pipeline? (a sanction lifted by Biden) There are more but I’m not going to waste my time on you.

It was almost the first thing he did. And don’t forget Hunter got paid by a Russian oligarch.  

[Baker Boy 1,477]

1 minute ago, Louie Kelcher said:

You wrote that we should go back in time.  As far as I know, we don't have a time machine, so when Trump wins the next election, how does he stop nuclear war?  It's a simple question if you think you can answer it.

Not even close.

[Pimpadeaux 2,240]

1 hour ago, JustinCharge said:

its all the same thing with these crazed liberals like rusty and timschoschet.  you point out that biden warns of nuclear war or the bulletin of atomic scientists moved the doomsday clock to the closest to war its ever been, and they ignore it.  they are not on this forum for genuine discourse.  they are here to troll.  dont discuss topics with them. 

Are you ready to make another guarantee?

[Hawkeye21 1,848]

This always turns into the same bickering and never ends up being a decent discussion.

[Pimpadeaux 2,240]

3 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

This always turns into the same bickering and never ends up being a decent discussion.

That's just part of the culture dating back to the early 2000s.

[JustinCharge 2,397]

7 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

This always turns into the same bickering and never ends up being a decent discussion.

thats because there is no moderation in the forum. no moderation means humans default to "Animal Farm" tactics.  One of those is to drown out and silence your opposition with loads of personal attacks and trolling.  The sheep in "Animal Farm" did this by chanting "four legs good, two legs bad!" whenever political rivals spoke to drown out political opposition.  then if they can get control, they drive out the opposition from the group.  (in the case of a forum, its banning people like on FBGs, or in real life, killing them).

Literally the behavior of rusty, timschoschet, etc. was predicted by Orwell in 1945.

correct moderation is to ban personal attacks and guilt trips.  but what we get is moderation that bans favorites.

[Baker Boy 1,477]

1 hour ago, JustinCharge said:

thats because there is no moderation in the forum. no moderation means humans default to "Animal Farm" tactics.  One of those is to drown out and silence your opposition with loads of personal attacks and trolling.  The sheep in "Animal Farm" did this by chanting "four legs good, two legs bad!" whenever political rivals spoke to drown out political opposition.  then if they can get control, they drive out the opposition from the group.  (in the case of a forum, its banning people like on FBGs, or in real life, killing them).

Literally the behavior of rusty, timschoschet, etc. was predicted by Orwell in 1945.

correct moderation is to ban personal attacks and guilt trips.  but what we get is moderation that bans favorites.

Wrong, it has to do with the People on the board. There are a lot of lonely, hateful people here that want everybody else to be as miserable as they are. Mature adults do not need moderation on a message board.

[Pimpadeaux 2,240]

1 hour ago, JustinCharge said:

thats because there is no moderation in the forum. no moderation means humans default to "Animal Farm" tactics.  One of those is to drown out and silence your opposition with loads of personal attacks and trolling.  The sheep in "Animal Farm" did this by chanting "four legs good, two legs bad!" whenever political rivals spoke to drown out political opposition.  then if they can get control, they drive out the opposition from the group.  (in the case of a forum, its banning people like on FBGs, or in real life, killing them).

Literally the behavior of rusty, timschoschet, etc. was predicted by Orwell in 1945.

correct moderation is to ban personal attacks and guilt trips.  but what we get is moderation that bans favorites.

LOL, you're just as guilty of personal attacks as anyone, and you even do it when someone is trying to have a thoughtful, intelligent discussion with you.

Anyone who doesn't take seriously your outlandish predictions and guarantees gets labeled a bot and called names.

And you'd be all for moderation as long as it minimizes the opinions of those who disagree with you and think you're a focking pathetic joke of a basement-living humanoid.

 

[Hardcore troubadour 12,576]

31 minutes ago, Pimpadeaux said:

LOL, you're just as guilty of personal attacks as anyone, and you even do it when someone is trying to have a thoughtful, intelligent discussion with you.

Anyone who doesn't take seriously your outlandish predictions and guarantees gets labeled a bot and called names.

And you'd be all for moderation as long as it minimizes the opinions of those who disagree with you and think you're a focking pathetic joke of a basement-living humanoid.

 

You seem to take the outlandish predictions pretty serious. You don’t go a day without making a comment. 

[Hawkeye21 1,848]

5 hours ago, JustinCharge said:

atomic scientists moved the doomsday clock to the closest to war its ever been

Isn't that doomsday clock basically meaningless?

[The Real timschochet 2,867]

6 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

Isn't that doomsday clock basically meaningless?

Not if you live in your mom’s basement and spend several hours every day staring at it with intense anticipation. 

[Voltaire 4,552]

8 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

What? There were no naval commanders with the ability to fire nukes in 1948. The first nuclear submarines didn’t show up until the 1960s. You have no clue about any of this. 

 

He's right about this.

https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2022/10/27/23426482/cuban-missile-crisis-basilica-arkhipov-nuclear-war

The world came incredibly close to nuclear armageddon during the Cuban Missile crisis and it was the decision of one Soviet commander that prevented disater.

[The Real timschochet 2,867]

39 minutes ago, Voltaire said:

He's right about this.

https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2022/10/27/23426482/cuban-missile-crisis-basilica-arkhipov-nuclear-war

The world came incredibly close to nuclear armageddon during the Cuban Missile crisis and it was the decision of one Soviet commander that prevented disater.

Yeah except the Cuban Missile Crisis was in 1962, not in 1948. Which was my point. 

But I also think the chance of nuclear war during that crisis was overstated.I don’t believe that Khrushchev would ever have given that order (and if he had he would have been removed by the Politburo.) 

[Voltaire 4,552]

10 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Yeah except the Cuban Missile Crisis was in 1962, not in 1948. Which was my point. 

But I also think the chance of nuclear war during that crisis was overstated.I don’t believe that Khrushchev would ever have given that order (and if he had he would have been removed by the Politburo.) 

The story as Vox tells it here it is the same version that I have always heard. The US navy was dropping depth chargers to force the sub rise, but those on the sub did not know this and were convinced they were under attack. Meanwhile, the sub had no contact with Moscow, but had been given permission from Moscow to launch if all three senior officers agreed. And two of those officers DID agree. There was one senior Soviet commander holdout who refused to give permission to launch the nuke and that individual person -singularly- prevented nuclear war.

[The Real timschochet 2,867]

1 minute ago, Voltaire said:

The story as Vox tells it here it is the same version that I have always heard. The US navy was dropping depth chargers to force the sub rise, but those on the sub did not know this and were convinced they were under attack. Meanwhile, they had no contact with Moscow, but had been given permission from Moscow to launch if all three senior officers agreed. And two of those officers DID agree. There was one senior Soviet commander holdout who refused to give permission to launch the nuke and that individual person -singularly- prevented nuclear war.

I’ve read that too of course. And I’ve seen Crimson Tide, which is basically the same story in reverse. 
 

Yes there is always the chance of a misunderstanding that could lead to nuclear war. Very unlikely but a chance. That, however is not the premise of the author of this thread. His premise is that Vladimir Putin will start a nuclear war with the USA because of our support for Ukraine. That’s never going to happen. And anyone who thinks it’s likely to happen has a screw loose IMO. 

[Hardcore troubadour 12,576]

59 minutes ago, Voltaire said:

He's right about this.

https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2022/10/27/23426482/cuban-missile-crisis-basilica-arkhipov-nuclear-war

The world came incredibly close to nuclear armageddon during the Cuban Missile crisis and it was the decision of one Soviet commander that prevented disater.

Justin gets a lot about history right. And anyone with a working brain knew he was referring to this incident.  

[JustinCharge 2,397]

Putin' sallies clamor to nuke Berlin in response to Germany's decision to send tanks to Ukraine.

https://www.the-sun.com/news/7215131/germany-crucial-leopard-tanks-ukraine/

NUKE BLAST

Putin’s allies call for Berlin to be NUKED after Germany’s ‘game-changing’ decision to send Leopard 2 tanks to Ukraine

Published: 13:43 ET, Jan 24 2023

Updated: 6:59 ET, Jan 25 2023

FUMING Kremlin propagandists threatened nuclear strikes on the West today after Germany agreed to send tanks to Ukraine.

One high-profile Putin mouthpiece demanded Berlin's Bundestag parliament should be reduced to radioactive ash in retaliation.

It comes after dithering German chancellor Olaf Scholz folded to international pressure and direct pleas from president Volodymyr Zelensky.

He will now send a squadron of Leopard 2 tanks to Ukraine, and allow Nato allies to re-export dozens more.

The Kremlin today hit back saying any tanks supplied by Germany and the US will "burn like all the rest".

And raging Moscow TV pundit Yevgeny Satanovsky said warheads should be launched on the centre of German democracy.

He said: “German tanks with crosses on their armour will again march across Ukraine attacking Russian soldiers.

“I have a natural reaction to this - the Soviet Union bombed Berlin in 1941.

“And to me this is a signal that the Reichstag, or Bundestag, which now replaces the Reichstag, simply should not remain standing any longer.

“Flat, slightly radioactive, melted-down ground [will remain in its place].”

Another of Putin's favourite propagandists, TV host Vladimir Solovyov, claimed it meant Germany had joined the war.

He ranted "It’s time to send a clear, resolute message that we now consider Germany a direct party to the conflict, rekindling memories of WW2.

“German tanks appearing [in Ukraine] will definitely mean we consider German territory, military bases and other sites as legitimate targets.”

The UK is already sending 14 Challenger 2s, answering Zelenksy's plea for more modern weaponry.

PM Rishi Sunak welcomed Germany's decision, saying the new heavy armour “will strengthen Ukraine’s defensive firepower”.

Mr Scholz had held back from supplying Leopards, fearing it could trigger World War Three.

But he finally relented today amid huge international pressure.

He will now send 14 Leopard 2s, plus spare parts and ammo, and lift a ban on other countries sending theirs.

Poland, Finland, Denmark, Norway and Spain were waiting for Berlin’s permission to send some of their fleets to Ukraine.

Reports said furious allies were ramping up pressure and threatened to defy Berlin by sending tanks without permission.

“This decision follows our well known line of supporting Ukraine to the best of our ability," said Mr Scholz today.

"We are acting in a closely coordinated manner internationally.” 

Germany's Leopards, fielded by armies across Europe, are widely seen as the best option as they are available in large numbers and easy to deploy and maintain.

Around 2,000 Leopard 2 tanks are in use by Ukraine’s allies.

Other countries that use Leopards include Canada, Sweden and the Netherlands, which have all sent weapons to Ukraine.

Tank maker Rheinmetall said it could offer 51 Leopard 2 and 88 older Leopard 1 tanks over the next 12 months.

It said 29 Leopard 2s could be delivered as soon as May as Ukraine wants hundreds of tanks for a major spring offensive.

The ultimate aim is to create two tank battalions, a German government spokesman said.

Biden U-turn

The Leopard was developed for the West German army in the Seventies and entered into service at the end of that decade.

The updated version 2 is powered by a 1,500bhp diesel engine and equipped with a 120mm gun and advanced night vision.

Incredible footage showed a soldier balancing his pint on the barrel of the gun before it drives off without spilling a drop in a demonstration of how stable it is.

Germany's U-turn comes after Nato allies last week pledged to give Ukraine hundreds of heavy weapons for its fight against Russia.

Mr Zelensky told a defence chiefs’ meeting in Ramstein, Germany, that tanks were vital to victory.

He said: “Time remains a Russian weapon. We need to speed up.”

Several allies echoed Zelensky in saying the tanks were essential to Ukraine's fight with its much larger neighbour.

In a joint statement – a rare public criticism of Europe's leading power - the foreign ministers of the three Baltic states called "on Germany to provide Leopard tanks to Ukraine now."

They said: "This is needed to stop Russian aggression, help Ukraine and restore peace in Europe quickly.

"Germany as the leading European power has special responsibility in this regard."

And a coalition of senior British MPs wrote to Germany's defence minister demanding action “at this moment of extreme urgency.”

Meanwhile, Joe Biden was poised to approve sending around 30 M1 Abrams tanks to Ukraine, US officials said yesterday.

It is a major reversal after Washington argued against sending its premier battle tank into the conflict with Russia.

The Pentagon warned the Abrams is hard to maintain, needs specialist training to operate and runs on jet fuel, making it a poor choice for Ukraine's army.

However despite the U-turn it could still take months or even years for the tanks to be delivered.