Mayfield requests trade...

[[echo] 72]

the Browns brass meeting with Watson this week, and they way they did it is the most Cleveland thing they could do.. now they diminished the value of their starting qb, and there isnt anything else out there that could be an upgrade.. who Fitz'Magic?

they are horrible at football mechanics.. and the fans deserve better.. now im not a fan and love a good trainwreck.. but this has been horrible 

[Ray_T 587]

here is a link.  I posted it on the Desean watson thread, as this was fallout from the watson trade discussion.  but it is relevant(perhaps moreso) here as well.

 

Browns' Baker Mayfield requests trade; Cleveland has no plans to trade QB (nfl.com)

 

[weepaws 2,452]

Good for you Mr Mayfield.  The browns have no interest on trading , they did, losers.  

[TBayXXXVII 2,106]

I don't know why he'd bother.  He'll be a free agent after the season.  They're not going to tag him and pay him $40M next year.  If he's smart, he goes out there and balls out and try to make himself as valuable as he can.

[Ray_T 587]

5 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

I don't know why he'd bother.  He'll be a free agent after the season.  They're not going to tag him and pay him $40M next year.  If he's smart, he goes out there and balls out and try to make himself as valuable as he can.

I was kind of thinking the same.

honestly if the team is not gonna pony up and give him a pile of cash, maybe they should trade him and see if they can get an asset in return.

even if Baker Blows up and has a huge year, hes not gonna play in Cleveland anyhow.  Not now.

so why waste everyones time.

maybe see if you can trade him for picks and then try to acquire someone like Goff or Minshew.   I think either of those players can perform as well as him (or better) and neither will be a problem in the dressing room moving forward.

keeping a malcontent on your team is rarely a good move.  Granted its not the fault of the Malcontent in this case.  you tried to replace the guy with a better player (likely after promises that hes your man) so you can hardly fault Mayfield in this case.   The only thing that could be blamed on him was his mediocre production at QB.

[weepaws 2,452]

Mayfield shouldn’t stay, move on.  

[Ray_T 587]

4 minutes ago, weepaws said:

Mayfield shouldn’t stay, move on.  

well, if he doesnt play, he still has another year he owes the team.

if they refuse to trade him, the smart move is to play extremely well, and then when you become a UFA just leave and sign somewhere else.

but at the end of the day hes under contract, the team holds most of the cards.  he can threaten to sit and sit out during training camp, but then when he comes back, he doesnt look great because hes missed camp.   that looks bad when you go to re sign.   better to come in with a chip on your shoulder, light it up and then get a big payday elsewhere.

that said, it doesnt hurt to ask for a trade.  if hes lucky he will actually get one.

[weepaws 2,452]

That’s all he can do , hope for a trade.  

Tough situation.  

[Utilit99 4,099]

Cleveland starts over again in the end. Man, they are a mess. 

[TBayXXXVII 2,106]

It's in Mayfield's best interest to play, but it's in the Browns best interest to clean house.  Mayfield will not get tagged next year, nor will he see an extension that he signs, so he'll be on a new team next year.  There's no reason not to just try and ball out and get paid from someone else.  Now, with Beckham gone (even though he's never really clicked with him), and Landry gone, they have no viable receivers, but still, GM's and coaches know how to adjust for that.

On the flipside, the Browns are a crapshow and need to start over.  Mayfield has very little trade value, maybe a 3rd... probably a 4th because he's one of the worst starters in the league.  That said, he's an upgrade over what Carolina, Giants, & Houston have.  Heck, he's an upgrade over what the Jets, Bears, and Jags have too, but they're not going to bail on their first round busts at this point in time.  Even still, the draft pick is more valuable than Mayfield.  Mayfield's good enough to get you to 6 or 7 wins, causing you to pick in the back end of the top 10.  Without Mayfield, you're probably looking at a top 3 pick next year with a better chance of getting a franchise QB.  That, plus an extra 3rd or 4th this year could net you an extra starter.

The same goes for Chubb and Hunt.  Chubb is under contract for this year and the next 2.  He'll be owed around $23M over those last 2 seasons.  There's a 0% chance that at age 30 (when that contract ends), that he sees a new deal and a 0% chance that the Browns have a contending team over that time frame.  Right now is the time to upgrade your future.  They could easily get a #1 pick (and probably a 3rd or 4th), for Chubb or at the very least, multiple 2nd or 3rd's.

The same goes for Hunt, but there's even more of a reason to move him... he's in the last year of his deal.

[jrokh 567]

Amari Cooper is a viable receiver. Check your facts…

[Ray_T 587]

2 hours ago, TBayXXXVII said:

It's in Mayfield's best interest to play, but it's in the Browns best interest to clean house.  Mayfield will not get tagged next year, nor will he see an extension that he signs, so he'll be on a new team next year.  There's no reason not to just try and ball out and get paid from someone else.  Now, with Beckham gone (even though he's never really clicked with him), and Landry gone, they have no viable receivers, but still, GM's and coaches know how to adjust for that.

On the flipside, the Browns are a crapshow and need to start over.  Mayfield has very little trade value, maybe a 3rd... probably a 4th because he's one of the worst starters in the league.  That said, he's an upgrade over what Carolina, Giants, & Houston have.  Heck, he's an upgrade over what the Jets, Bears, and Jags have too, but they're not going to bail on their first round busts at this point in time.  Even still, the draft pick is more valuable than Mayfield.  Mayfield's good enough to get you to 6 or 7 wins, causing you to pick in the back end of the top 10.  Without Mayfield, you're probably looking at a top 3 pick next year with a better chance of getting a franchise QB.  That, plus an extra 3rd or 4th this year could net you an extra starter.

The same goes for Chubb and Hunt.  Chubb is under contract for this year and the next 2.  He'll be owed around $23M over those last 2 seasons.  There's a 0% chance that at age 30 (when that contract ends), that he sees a new deal and a 0% chance that the Browns have a contending team over that time frame.  Right now is the time to upgrade your future.  They could easily get a #1 pick (and probably a 3rd or 4th), for Chubb or at the very least, multiple 2nd or 3rd's.

The same goes for Hunt, but there's even more of a reason to move him... he's in the last year of his deal.

the browns have been a crapshow for a while.

I agree if starting over with a new QB, the right move is to dump chubb and Hunt.

this isnt likely to happen, but its possible.    The team seems to not  want to do anything right.

but with Hunt in the last year of his deal I'd suggest hes a must move player.   That said, it sounds like they want to keep Baker to see if he clicks with Cooper.   or they are pretending they like him because they cant get something better. 

Either way I dont know that Baker gets another good shot to start with another team, so he might as well play out this last year and put up some numbers.

if he can at least do that, he may get another shot somewhere.   He wants out of Cleveland, hes nearly there whether he likes it or not.

with luck he gets his trade.   but there needs to be a buyer first.

[Utilit99 4,099]

3 hours ago, Ray_T said:

the browns have been a crapshow for a while.

I agree if starting over with a new QB, the right move is to dump chubb and Hunt.

this isnt likely to happen, but its possible.    The team seems to not  want to do anything right.

but with Hunt in the last year of his deal I'd suggest hes a must move player.   That said, it sounds like they want to keep Baker to see if he clicks with Cooper.   or they are pretending they like him because they cant get something better. 

Either way I dont know that Baker gets another good shot to start with another team, so he might as well play out this last year and put up some numbers.

if he can at least do that, he may get another shot somewhere.   He wants out of Cleveland, hes nearly there whether he likes it or not.

with luck he gets his trade.   but there needs to be a buyer first.

They'll be starting over with Watson it appears.

[kcBlitzkrieg 17]

19 hours ago, Utilit99 said:

They'll be starting over with Watson it appears.

Yes, albeit a start over that begins with a playoff caliber team with all the most important pieces well intact.  AFC North and West gonna be a beat down.  

[Ray_T 587]

On 3/18/2022 at 2:02 PM, Utilit99 said:

They'll be starting over with Watson it appears.

clearly.   it would seem that Baker will get his request.   I'm certain someone will give him a shot.   it will be interesting to see what the Browns are asking for him.

I guess calling the rebuild in cleveland was a bit premature.    but then again, we heard they were out of the running to get Watson so it wasnt unrealistic to assume the rebuild was happening.

[weepaws 2,452]

The Browns are going to have a lot essential ff players.  

[IGotWorms 3,300]

On 3/20/2022 at 8:13 PM, Ray_T said:

clearly.   it would seem that Baker will get his request.   I'm certain someone will give him a shot.   it will be interesting to see what the Browns are asking for him.

I was thinking about this the other day—what would mayfield net in a trade? It’s possible I am severely undervaluing him but I’m thinking a second rounder and little more. That OBJ stuff really hurt him.

[Ray_T 587]

 

11 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

I was thinking about this the other day—what would mayfield net in a trade? It’s possible I am severely undervaluing him but I’m thinking a second rounder and little more. That OBJ stuff really hurt him.

I think you are in the ballpark.

hes a legit starting QB.    but definitely not a high end starter.

he still will sometimes look down a receiver before throwing the ball, so he will get more than his share of picks.

I figure it will be a second.  possibly a third if the market is weak.  possibly a first if a couple teams get into a bidding war.

but for me that is the likely range.

that said, if someone out there still loves him, he may go for more.  he is, after all, a QB.

[weepaws 2,452]

I think all the unstable coaching changes hurt him more then Beckham stuff.  

 

[TBayXXXVII 2,106]

6 hours ago, IGotWorms said:

I was thinking about this the other day—what would mayfield net in a trade? It’s possible I am severely undervaluing him but I’m thinking a second rounder and little more. That OBJ stuff really hurt him.

 

5 hours ago, Ray_T said:

 

I think you are in the ballpark.

hes a legit starting QB.    but definitely not a high end starter.

he still will sometimes look down a receiver before throwing the ball, so he will get more than his share of picks.

I figure it will be a second.  possibly a third if the market is weak.  possibly a first if a couple teams get into a bidding war.

but for me that is the likely range.

that said, if someone out there still loves him, he may go for more.  he is, after all, a QB.

 

I think the fact that there's only 1 team (Seattle).... maybe 2 (Carolina), where Mayfield would truly be an upgrade combined with the Browns probably needing to move him, along with his $19M price tag, I'd have a hard time believing the buying price would be more expensive than a 5th round pick.  But all it takes is one person to think he's worth more.

[Ray_T 587]

I think hes better than Mariota in Atlanta too.   hes certainly done more in his short career than Mariota has.

[Ray_T 587]

4 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

 

 

I think the fact that there's only 1 team (Seattle).... maybe 2 (Carolina), where Mayfield would truly be an upgrade combined with the Browns probably needing to move him, along with his $19M price tag, I'd have a hard time believing the buying price would be more expensive than a 5th round pick.  But all it takes is one person to think he's worth more.

people spend second and third  round picks at the draft for QBs they expect to be backups.  why wouldnt they spend a 2nd to get a guy who can start?  or even a low first round pick if they really believe in him? 

I dont like him much more than you do, but I think you underestimate the value of the position.

I also dont think QB's are worth 30+ mil per year, but that seems to be the market for a solid starter now.

[TBayXXXVII 2,106]

7 minutes ago, Ray_T said:

people spend second and third  round picks at the draft for QBs they expect to be backups.  why wouldnt they spend a 2nd to get a guy who can start?  or even a low first round pick if they really believe in him? 

I dont like him much more than you do, but I think you underestimate the value of the position.

I also dont think QB's are worth 30+ mil per year, but that seems to be the market for a solid starter now.

It's still supply and demand.  The supply of QB's with Mayfield's ceiling is greater than the demand.  He's a below average QB.  There's at least 3 or 4 more like him in the draft.  Winston, Mariota, Trubisky, Taylor, Bridgewater... etc, all signed for less money (annually), than what Mayfield is about to make and I think he's worse than most of those guys.  As far as the other guys available... Fitzpatrick, Dalton, Newton, & Gabbert, are all about the same as Mayfield and they're free to acquire (obviously they have to sign a contract - but those guys are free agents, it's only cash and not cash + prospects).  So, we're looking at 3 or 4 college kids + 3 or 4 free agents + Mayfield for 1 job... Seattle (maybe 2 - Carolina).  Who would any team be bidding against? 

 

Heck, if I'm Seattle, I'd offer my 5th round pick for Mayfield and a 3rd.  I would be doing them the favor by taking him of their hands.

[Ray_T 587]

2 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

 So, we're looking at 3 or 4 college kids + 3 or 4 free agents + Mayfield for 1 job... Seattle (maybe 2 - Carolina).  Who would any team be bidding against? 

I'd argue atlanta is in there too.

the smart money goes after Garoppolo if San Fran is willing to sell.

hes the best QB that may be available.    what we dont know is if San Fran wants to sell.   You'd think if they were hot to sell him, there would have been media reports about it, so  I'm wondering if they decided the smart move is to hold him and play him as a starter.

[IGotWorms 3,300]

13 hours ago, TBayXXXVII said:

It's still supply and demand.  The supply of QB's with Mayfield's ceiling is greater than the demand.  He's a below average QB.  There's at least 3 or 4 more like him in the draft.  Winston, Mariota, Trubisky, Taylor, Bridgewater... etc, all signed for less money (annually), than what Mayfield is about to make and I think he's worse than most of those guys.  As far as the other guys available... Fitzpatrick, Dalton, Newton, & Gabbert, are all about the same as Mayfield and they're free to acquire (obviously they have to sign a contract - but those guys are free agents, it's only cash and not cash + prospects).  So, we're looking at 3 or 4 college kids + 3 or 4 free agents + Mayfield for 1 job... Seattle (maybe 2 - Carolina).  Who would any team be bidding against? 

 

Heck, if I'm Seattle, I'd offer my 5th round pick for Mayfield and a 3rd.  I would be doing them the favor by taking him of their hands.

Yikes, you think Mayfield is awful. Worse than Winston, Mariota, Tyrod Taylor and Bridgewater? That’s quite bad.

I’m not sure I agree, but he did have a terrible year

[TBayXXXVII 2,106]

54 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

Yikes, you think Mayfield is awful. Worse than Winston, Mariota, Tyrod Taylor and Bridgewater? That’s quite bad.

I’m not sure I agree, but he did have a terrible year

Yeah, I shouldn't have included Taylor... he stinks.  LOL   Otherwise, yeah.  To me, Mayfield is easily one of the worst starters in the league.  I think he's a backup at best.  Winston and Mariota are low end starters, but starters.  Bridgewater... yeah, they might be equals, high end backups.

[TBayXXXVII 2,106]

14 hours ago, Ray_T said:

I'd argue atlanta is in there too.

the smart money goes after Garoppolo if San Fran is willing to sell.

hes the best QB that may be available.    what we dont know is if San Fran wants to sell.   You'd think if they were hot to sell him, there would have been media reports about it, so  I'm wondering if they decided the smart move is to hold him and play him as a starter.

The reason I can't agree with you on Atlanta is because Atlanta apparently doesn't agree with you.  ESPN reported that the Browns traded for Watson on March 18th.  The Falcons signed Mariota to a 2-year deal, 3 days later.  If the Falcons thought Mayfield was a better acquisition than Mariota, they'd have traded for him instead of giving Mariota $18M.

 

Agreed, if Garoppolo is available, then he'd certainly be a higher commodity than Mayfield.  I don't think he will be though.  I think last year, the Niners realized they screwed up with Lance and they're going to keep and start Garoppolo this year.  I'll go even as far to say that I bet they tag him at the end of the year for next year.

[Ray_T 587]

1 hour ago, TBayXXXVII said:

The reason I can't agree with you on Atlanta is because Atlanta apparently doesn't agree with you.  ESPN reported that the Browns traded for Watson on March 18th.  The Falcons signed Mariota to a 2-year deal, 3 days later.  If the Falcons thought Mayfield was a better acquisition than Mariota, they'd have traded for him instead of giving Mariota $18M.

 

Agreed, if Garoppolo is available, then he'd certainly be a higher commodity than Mayfield.  I don't think he will be though.  I think last year, the Niners realized they screwed up with Lance and they're going to keep and start Garoppolo this year.  I'll go even as far to say that I bet they tag him at the end of the year for next year.

agree with you on Garoppolo.   I also agree they messed up on Lance.  hes basically Tim Teebow.  Maybe slightly better thrower, but watching him play totally made me think I was watching Teebow.

Either way, like you, I wouldnt be surprised to see them use the franchise tag.  Garoppolo may be cheezed that Lance was drafted in the first place, so his inclination may be to go elsewhere as well. 

as for the Mariota thing.... 2 years 18 mil.    so Just over 9 mil per year.  Feels like a backup QB contract to me or possibly a bridge QB.

maybe thats the deal.   I dont think its a great one, but if they manage to get another QB under contract the salary isnt super high for a backup QB.

if they were paying him 18 mil per year.... then I'd be inclined to think hes their man.   Either way, we will soon find out.

[jrokh 567]

25 minutes ago, Ray_T said:

as for the Mariota thing.... 2 years 18 mil.    so Just over 9 mil per year.  Feels like a backup QB contract to me or possibly a bridge QB.

maybe thats the deal.   I dont think its a great one, but if they manage to get another QB under contract the salary isnt super high for a backup QB.

the real money is even way less than that...

 

[TBayXXXVII 2,106]

42 minutes ago, Ray_T said:

agree with you on Garoppolo.   I also agree they messed up on Lance.  hes basically Tim Teebow.  Maybe slightly better thrower, but watching him play totally made me think I was watching Teebow.

Either way, like you, I wouldnt be surprised to see them use the franchise tag.  Garoppolo may be cheezed that Lance was drafted in the first place, so his inclination may be to go elsewhere as well. 

as for the Mariota thing.... 2 years 18 mil.    so Just over 9 mil per year.  Feels like a backup QB contract to me or possibly a bridge QB.

maybe thats the deal.   I dont think its a great one, but if they manage to get another QB under contract the salary isnt super high for a backup QB.

if they were paying him 18 mil per year.... then I'd be inclined to think hes their man.   Either way, we will soon find out.

Yeah, they're only locked in to Mariota for like $7M this year, but Mayfield will cost them $19M, so they'd be paying $26M this year for two backup QB's.  On top of that, they only got a 3rd round pick for Matt Ryan.  Why turn around and trade that pick for Mayfield?  They're going to eat $40.5M in cap space on Ryan, pay Mariota $7M to be a backup, spend $19M on Mayfield to be a starter (who's really a backup)... and have nothing to show for it?  That would make no sense whatsoever.

 

Just saw that @jrokh noted the Mariota money above.

[Ray_T 587]

19 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

That would make no sense whatsoever.

hard to say.  if trying to tank lots of things that make no sense will happen.

but I think Mayfield is in the last year of his contract. If thats the case, the money can come off the books next year if he doesnt work out.   so there are advantages to taking a shot on him.

if the plan is to pick a QB in next years draft, they have 2 QB's they can try out.  Mayfield and Mariota.

at the price they paid Mariota I doubt they made any promises that hed be starting.   in theory they could bring in Dalton or one of the other QBs you listed and have a competition for the #1 job. 

I'm not certain Mariota is their day 1 starter.

Right now hes #1 on the depth chart, but a lot can change still.

[TBayXXXVII 2,106]

4 minutes ago, Ray_T said:

hard to say.  if trying to tank lots of things that make no sense will happen.

but I think Mayfield is in the last year of his contract. If thats the case, the money can come off the books next year if he doesnt work out.   so there are advantages to taking a shot on him.

if the plan is to pick a QB in next years draft, they have 2 QB's they can try out.  Mayfield and Mariota.

at the price they paid Mariota I doubt they made any promises that hed be starting.   in theory they could bring in Dalton or one of the other QBs you listed and have a competition for the #1 job. 

I'm not certain Mariota is their day 1 starter.

Right now hes #1 on the depth chart, but a lot can change still.

I don't necessarily disagree with you, but I think if it were going to happen, it already would have.  In fact, I think that it would've happened before signing Mariota and that they never would've signed him in the first place.  I think they'd have just grabbed some $3M guy and said "here's the clipboard".  Brissett got 1 yr $4.6M, Kyle Allen got $2.5M.  Go give Gabbert or Dalton $4M.  I think one thing we agree on is that the Falcons are destined for a ceiling of 6 wins, regardless of who their QB is, right?  So it doesn't matter at all if the guy(s), they bring in get hurt.  So, bring in Mayfield, give him the $19M.  If he balls out, give him a new deal.  If he stinks, you let him walk and draft his replacement next year.  If he gets hurt, who cares, throw in some dude who'll lose just like Mayfield.

Mayfield became available 2 days before Ryan was traded and 3 days before Mariota was signed.  I'd have to think the Falcons called the Browns and inquired about Mayfield.  I'm guessing one of two things happened... the Browns said no because they don't know about Watson's ability to play this year or... the Falcons laughed when they were told the asking price.

I think they're going to draft someone, that's my guess.

[Ray_T 587]

3 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

I don't necessarily disagree with you, but I think if it were going to happen, it already would have.  In fact, I think that it would've happened before signing Mariota and that they never would've signed him in the first place.  I think they'd have just grabbed some $3M guy and said "here's the clipboard".  Brissett got 1 yr $4.6M, Kyle Allen got $2.5M.  Go give Gabbert or Dalton $4M.  I think one thing we agree on is that the Falcons are destined for a ceiling of 6 wins, regardless of who their QB is, right?  So it doesn't matter at all if the guy(s), they bring in get hurt.  So, bring in Mayfield, give him the $19M.  If he balls out, give him a new deal.  If he stinks, you let him walk and draft his replacement next year.  If he gets hurt, who cares, throw in some dude who'll lose just like Mayfield.

Mayfield became available 2 days before Ryan was traded and 3 days before Mariota was signed.  I'd have to think the Falcons called the Browns and inquired about Mayfield.  I'm guessing one of two things happened... the Browns said no because they don't know about Watson's ability to play this year or... the Falcons laughed when they were told the asking price.

I think they're going to draft someone, that's my guess.

well, nobody signs the 3 M players until the higher priced guys have all found a place.  so there is no hurry to sign one.

That said, I think the team overachieved last year.   I look at the final standings and I'm amazed this team won as many games as they did.   Honestly and truly I am.

soft schedule may have helped there, I'll admit.

As for Mayfield, you could be right.  It would be smart to hang onto him until you know whether Watson gets suspended or (more likely) how long he gets suspended.

If watson would have reported to camp halfway through last season he would have not only had his suspension happen early, he also would not have had to play for Houston and would have another year knocked off his contract.

Either way, not my problem......

I know you think they have a cap of 6 wins.  I wouldnt be surprised to see them win 3 or 4.   This team feels like a 3 or 4 win team.   Not a 6 win team.

The change in QB may make this happen.

Even if you think Mariota is better.  he doesnt know the offense like Matt Ryan did.   so I think it would take him a while to establish that chemistry with the teammates.  That alone is likely worth 1 or  2 wins and may be enough to tank them for a top pick next year in a deeper QB draft.

of course, when tanking I'm pretty sure you have to make it look like you are not tanking.  so nobody is gonna admit this is the plan.

I think thats the bottom line.

 

[weepaws 2,452]

I think the Steelers should try to get him. 

[DocNiner 44]

Maybe he could fit in Carolina since they missed out on Watson. He could be better than Darnold which isn't saying much. He days of being a regular starter may be over. Guess his days of starring in commercials is pretty much over too at least Cleveland wise,lol.

[weepaws 2,452]

I would agree about the Panthers. 

[AxeElf 787]

2 hours ago, DocNiner said:

Guess his days of starring in commercials is pretty much over too at least Cleveland wise,lol.

That one with Alice Cooper as his neighbor at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame was cool.

 

[Ray_T 587]

I gotta admit.... pretty cool commercials.

[Ray_T 587]

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/05/02/could-the-browns-need-baker-mayfield-for-2022/

looks like Bakers not going anywhere yet.....

On 3/23/2022 at 11:38 AM, weepaws said:

I think the Steelers should try to get him. 

per

[weepaws 2,452]

Would have been fun to have seen an ex Browns Qb become the Steelers starter.