Mayfield requests trade...

[TBayXXXVII 2,107]

15 hours ago, Ray_T said:

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/05/02/could-the-browns-need-baker-mayfield-for-2022/

looks like Bakers not going anywhere yet.....

per

Honestly, there's no reason to trade him.  Watson's probably going to be suspended for a lot of games and Mayfield will have a chance to win.  Let's say that Watson is suspended for 6 games and in those 6, the Browns are 5-1... they're not going to bench him.  They're only on the hook for a $1M cap hit this year for Watson and something like $20M for Mayfield.  Having less than $25M dedicated to your QB room is pretty great.

[weepaws 2,452]

With Watson they might be 5-1, not with Mayfield, isn’t that the reason why they paid so much for Watson? 

[Ray_T 587]

2 hours ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Watson's probably going to be suspended for a lot of games and Mayfield will have a chance to win.  Let's say that Watson is suspended for 6 games and in those 6, the Browns are 5-1... they're not going to bench him. 

well, i dont think it matters if Mayfield goes 6-0.  The relationship there isnt great and if they bench Watson for Mayfield then they will have two dissatisfied QB's.....  then again it is the Browns..... maybe thats the outcome haha.   

Either way, you dont pay the price they paid for Watson and then not play him unless you have no choice in the matter due to injury or suspension.

Mayfield is hanging around to cover the suspension after that he is gone.

if someone pays a sufficient price for Mayfield they will send him away and acquire another cheap QB like Dalton to play during the suspension.

personally, I feel they should have done that anyhow just to get rid of the distraction.  there are unsigned QB's who will put up comparable numbers to Mayfield.  why keep the distraction?

either way, thats the way its looking right now, Mayfield will cover the suspension and keep the seat warm for Watson.

[TBayXXXVII 2,107]

5 minutes ago, Ray_T said:

well, i dont think it matters if Mayfield goes 6-0.  The relationship there isnt great and if they bench Watson for Mayfield then they will have two dissatisfied QB's.....  then again it is the Browns..... maybe thats the outcome haha.   

Either way, you dont pay the price they paid for Watson and then not play him unless you have no choice in the matter due to injury or suspension.

Mayfield is hanging around to cover the suspension after that he is gone.

if someone pays a sufficient price for Mayfield they will send him away and acquire another cheap QB like Dalton to play during the suspension.

personally, I feel they should have done that anyhow just to get rid of the distraction.  there are unsigned QB's who will put up comparable numbers to Mayfield.  why keep the distraction?

either way, thats the way its looking right now, Mayfield will cover the suspension and keep the seat warm for Watson.

I think Watson is getting an 8-game suspension... and unless the Browns are worse than or are, 4-4 (and Mayfield is the reason), then I can see Watson going in.  Other than that, I'm pretty comfortable in thinking that Mayfield plays the whole season barring injury.  Why?  The last time Deshaun Watson threw a pass was on January 3, 2021.  Assuming the season starts on Sept 11, 10 weeks later (assuming an 8-game suspension and a bye week), Watson won't throw another pass until November 11, 2022... that's 670 days.  Simply, as long as Cleveland is completive, Mayfield is the guy.  If the Browns are 6-2 and Mayfield is a top 10 QB in the league, he's not getting benched.  It's not happening.

Now, that has no bearing on the future, as you said, Watson is their guy in 2023.  But Mayfield has a chance to garner a starting job next year.  The relationship between him and the organization is irrelevant.  It's in Mayfield's best interest to put forth his "A-game" every week.  If he goes out and has a great season, there's no better "F-you" than that because he'll be an unrestricted FA and free to sign where ever he wants because there's no chance what-so-ever that the Browns tag him.  He can make an even more of an "F-you" by signing for pennies on the dollar on a 1-year deal so that he won't really register as a big loss towards the compensatory pick formula.

I agree with you that Mayfield stinks.  I think every other GM knows that too.  The problem for the Browns is that if they cut Mayfield, he's a $19M cap hit.  Their only way out of that is via a trade.  Every other GM knows that too.  What team is going to trade for a 1-year / $19M contract and give up something for him.  The Browns would have to be on the losing side (this time), of a Brock Osweiler type deal.  They'd probably have to give up a 1st or 2nd round pick and Mayfield for a 6th round pick.  From that standpoint, they're better off paying him the money and giving him a chance to improve his stock for another team next year.  If he does, then great, they may get a compensatory pick for him.  If not, no biggie, they have Watson.

There's no incentive for Mayfield to be a distraction.  There's no incentive for the Browns to cut or trade him.

[jrokh 567]

1 hour ago, Ray_T said:

if someone pays a sufficient price for Mayfield they will send him away and acquire another cheap QB like Dalton to play during the suspension.

They already have their contingency plan in place with Jacoby Brisset. Mayfield is as good as gone. The only reason he is still on the team is no one wanted to take on his full contract 18 million and change. As soon a team is willing to do that he’ll be shipped out. My guess is the Browns are waiting for someone to get hurt and they will have enough leverage to make a deal.

[Ray_T 587]

1 hour ago, jrokh said:

They already have their contingency plan in place with Jacoby Brisset. Mayfield is as good as gone. The only reason he is still on the team is no one wanted to take on his full contract 18 million and change. As soon a team is willing to do that he’ll be shipped out. My guess is the Browns are waiting for someone to get hurt and they will have enough leverage to make a deal.

possibly true.

thats the scenario where they likely get the best price for the guy at this point.

[TBayXXXVII 2,107]

3 hours ago, jrokh said:

They already have their contingency plan in place with Jacoby Brisset. Mayfield is as good as gone. The only reason he is still on the team is no one wanted to take on his full contract 18 million and change. As soon a team is willing to do that he’ll be shipped out. My guess is the Browns are waiting for someone to get hurt and they will have enough leverage to make a deal.

 

2 hours ago, Ray_T said:

possibly true.

thats the scenario where they likely get the best price for the guy at this point.

The only flaw in this thinking is that I don't think there's a single team who think that Mayfield is a player that's worth giving up draft capital for.  Let's say Cousins gets hurt in practice 10 days before the season starts.  Now, they don't have a real backup who could come in and lead them to the playoffs, but are they better off giving up a Day 1 or Day 2 draft pick for Mayfield than they would be giving $5M to say, Fitzpatrick Foles, or Newton?  I don't think so.  I think they're winning 6 games with any/all of them.  There's also the issue of money.  Mayfield is going to cost $19M to the cap.  The only teams that have enough cap space to fit Mayfield is Miami, Houston, Carolina (and oddly enough, Cleveland).

[Ray_T 587]

29 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

 

The only flaw in this thinking is that I don't think there's a single team who think that Mayfield is a player that's worth giving up draft capital for.  Let's say Cousins gets hurt in practice 10 days before the season starts.  Now, they don't have a real backup who could come in and lead them to the playoffs, but are they better off giving up a Day 1 or Day 2 draft pick for Mayfield than they would be giving $5M to say, Fitzpatrick Foles, or Newton?  I don't think so.  I think they're winning 6 games with any/all of them.  There's also the issue of money.  Mayfield is going to cost $19M to the cap.  The only teams that have enough cap space to fit Mayfield is Miami, Houston, Carolina (and oddly enough, Cleveland).

well, if anyone was gonna overpay, that window has mostly closed.  clearly nobody wanted to pay the asking price so you are right there.

only chance to get that now is if team a loses their starter in exhibition and hes gone for most or all of the year.

Baker is good enough to start.   Hes not elite, but if you think you have a great team, you overpay so that the year isnt wasted.   Thats a move you make to keep the fans (and possibly the owner) from getting cheezed.  not a move you make because you're being smart.

thats the only scenario I can see someone overpaying for Baker.

and honestly.... a QB gets hurt in training camp nearly every year.   so if trying to milk the best return, thats where you get it.

I fully agree, there are probably unsigned QB's that are likely better and cheaper than him.   but not everyone feels that way.  I've seen plenty of dumb moves made so clearly this scenario can happen.   It shouldnt.  but it might.

 

[AxeElf 787]

4 hours ago, TBayXXXVII said:

The last time Deshaun Watson threw a pass was on January 3, 2021.  Assuming the season starts on Sept 11, 10 weeks later (assuming an 8-game suspension and a bye week), Watson won't throw another pass until November 11, 2022... that's 670 days.

I can with almost 100% certainty assure you that Watson has thrown a pass since January 2021, and that he will throw several more before the start of the 2022 season.

4 hours ago, TBayXXXVII said:

If the Browns are 6-2 and Mayfield is a top 10 QB in the league, he's not getting benched.  It's not happening.

You're right, that's not happening.  The Browns 6-2?  Mayfield a top 10 QB?  Not happening, ever.

[TBayXXXVII 2,107]

1 minute ago, AxeElf said:

I can with almost 100% certainty assure you that Watson has thrown a pass since January 2021, and that he will throw several more before the start of the 2022 season.

You're right, that's not happening.  The Browns 6-2?  Mayfield a top 10 QB?  Not happening, ever.

Clearly the implication was in an NFL game.

Yeah, Mayfield stinks.  That's why I don't think they're going to get an "overpay", even if another team loses their starter.

[Ray_T 587]

2 minutes ago, AxeElf said:

I can with almost 100% certainty assure you that Watson has thrown a pass since January 2021, and that he will throw several more before the start of the 2022 season.

You're right, that's not happening.  The Browns 6-2?  Mayfield a top 10 QB?  Not happening, ever.

what I dont know is whether the problem with Baker was him or whether it was the coach and/or the system he played in.

in this case, the coach hasnt changed.  so its not reasonable to expect Mayfield will be substantially more productive.  if its going to happen it is likely happening on another team.

just my opinion.   I know with new WR's some things can change there too.   how much.... I cannot say

[TBayXXXVII 2,107]

3 minutes ago, Ray_T said:

well, if anyone was gonna overpay, that window has mostly closed.  clearly nobody wanted to pay the asking price so you are right there.

only chance to get that now is if team a loses their starter in exhibition and hes gone for most or all of the year.

Baker is good enough to start.   Hes not elite, but if you think you have a great team, you overpay so that the year isnt wasted.   Thats a move you make to keep the fans (and possibly the owner) from getting cheezed.  not a move you make because you're being smart.

thats the only scenario I can see someone overpaying for Baker.

and honestly.... a QB gets hurt in training camp nearly every year.   so if trying to milk the best return, thats where you get it.

I fully agree, there are probably unsigned QB's that are likely better and cheaper than him.   but not everyone feels that way.  I've seen plenty of dumb moves made so clearly this scenario can happen.   It shouldnt.  but it might.

 

You know what, you probably are right on this front.  The more I thought about it, the more I realized that there are teams like Philly, Washington, Detroit, etc who aren't going to do anything this year of note, but having a viable option to keep the roster moving in an upward swing, Mayfield is a better option than a lot of players out there.  That said, I think the return won't be all that high.  For example, if Hurts get Hurt (), the Eagles may want to inquire about Mayfield because the drop off may be negligible and they can win 7 games with either guy.  Personally, I think Mayfield is an upgrade, but that's another conversation.  That said, I don't think the Eagles think that Mayfield for a 1-year stop-gap is worth giving up a commodity that could yield them a franchise QB next year.  So, I do think a team would be willing to give up, say a pair of 4's, if their QB gets hurt, but I don't think anyone is giving a pick in the first 3 rounds.  If Mayfield hits the FA market, he's going to be met with the same welcoming as Winston and Mariota did in 2020.  Virtually nothing.

[Ray_T 587]

1 minute ago, TBayXXXVII said:

You know what, you probably are right on this front.  The more I thought about it, the more I realized that there are teams like Philly, Washington, Detroit, etc who aren't going to do anything this year of note, but having a viable option to keep the roster moving in an upward swing, Mayfield is a better option than a lot of players out there.  That said, I think the return won't be all that high.  For example, if Hurts get Hurt (), the Eagles may want to inquire about Mayfield because the drop off may be negligible and they can win 7 games with either guy.  Personally, I think Mayfield is an upgrade, but that's another conversation.  That said, I don't think the Eagles think that Mayfield for a 1-year stop-gap is worth giving up a commodity that could yield them a franchise QB next year.  So, I do think a team would be willing to give up, say a pair of 4's, if their QB gets hurt, but I don't think anyone is giving a pick in the first 3 rounds.  If Mayfield hits the FA market, he's going to be met with the same welcoming as Winston and Mariota did in 2020.  Virtually nothing.

agreed.

though I dont think a non playoff team pays this price.   Eagles are a bad example because they have 3 QB's on the roster and likely were not gonna make the playoffs either way.  so why overpay?   so he can make your team just good enough that you dont get the #1 overall pick?   thats silly.

its a team that thinks they can compete and make the playoffs who loses their starter.   Thats the team that pays for Mayfield.

if Brady goes down and is gonna miss 10 games.  Mayfield may be good enough go keep them in the playoff hunt until he can return.

Thats the team that pays.

[TBayXXXVII 2,107]

5 minutes ago, Ray_T said:

agreed.

though I dont think a non playoff team pays this price.   Eagles are a bad example because they have 3 QB's on the roster and likely were not gonna make the playoffs either way.  so why overpay?   so he can make your team just good enough that you dont get the #1 overall pick?   thats silly.

its a team that thinks they can compete and make the playoffs who loses their starter.   Thats the team that pays for Mayfield.

if Brady goes down and is gonna miss 10 games.  Mayfield may be good enough go keep them in the playoff hunt until he can return.

Thats the team that pays.

That's where I don't agree, playoff teams.  No matter who you have, you're team isn't good enough to beat a healthy team when you're going into the game with Baker Mayfield as your QB.  Also, the contenders are for the most part, up against the cap.  They'd have to weaken their team to fit Mayfield in.  If Brady got hurt in August, I'd bet any money that Gabbert starts the year and if he doesn't play well, it'll be Trask.  There's a 0% chance they trade for Mayfield.  Willing to bet the Rams, Bills, and Chiefs feel the same way.

[jrokh 567]

I think the Browns would gladly take a 5th rounder if it meant the contract was absorbed. Maybe even a 6th

[Ray_T 587]

1 hour ago, TBayXXXVII said:

That's where I don't agree, playoff teams.  No matter who you have, you're team isn't good enough to beat a healthy team when you're going into the game with Baker Mayfield as your QB.  Also, the contenders are for the most part, up against the cap.  They'd have to weaken their team to fit Mayfield in.  If Brady got hurt in August, I'd bet any money that Gabbert starts the year and if he doesn't play well, it'll be Trask.  There's a 0% chance they trade for Mayfield.  Willing to bet the Rams, Bills, and Chiefs feel the same way.

you sure about that?  if Brady is out until week 11 and Mayfield can get them 5-5  or 6-4 up to that point Brady can likely get them into the playoffs.   at the end of the day that's what counts

Mayfield is a .500 QB on an inferior team ( the browns) hes likely a bit better in Tampa if Brady got hurt.

thats good enough to keep them in the hunt until he returns.

I dont know that Gabbert is good enough to get you there.   Trask is a bit of an unknown, so its tough to bet on him at this point.

 

That said, this is your team I'd expect you to know more than I do so maybe I'll just shut up about it.   I could be out to lunch on the Tampa situation.... but in theory, this is one scenario where you buy Mayfield (if you think he is a close enough fit to your system)

[weepaws 2,452]

If Mayfield stays with the Browns, it’s going to be a very interesting situation, Mayfield doesn’t seem like the type that takes being pushed aside lightly, How happy can he be about the team picking up Watson.  

This is a classic situation. 

[TBayXXXVII 2,107]

14 hours ago, Ray_T said:

you sure about that?  if Brady is out until week 11 and Mayfield can get them 5-5  or 6-4 up to that point Brady can likely get them into the playoffs.   at the end of the day that's what counts

Mayfield is a .500 QB on an inferior team ( the browns) hes likely a bit better in Tampa if Brady got hurt.

thats good enough to keep them in the hunt until he returns.

I dont know that Gabbert is good enough to get you there.   Trask is a bit of an unknown, so its tough to bet on him at this point.

 

That said, this is your team I'd expect you to know more than I do so maybe I'll just shut up about it.   I could be out to lunch on the Tampa situation.... but in theory, this is one scenario where you buy Mayfield (if you think he is a close enough fit to your system)

For whatever reason, the Bucs love Gabbert.  He's been with Arians and Leftwich for like 5 years now between AZ and in Tampa, which means he knows the system inside and out.  According to Spotrac.com, the Bucs are about $13M under the cap before signing their draft picks.  Take $5M from that and they're at $8M.  They're going to have to do some fancy work just to get Gronk in if he wants to play.  There's no chance they add another $19M for Mayfield.  Factor in Gabbert's knowledge of the playbook, his cheap salary, the Bucs cap space, Mayfield's contract, and in my opinion... Mayfield isn't even better than Gabbert, Tampa isn't trading for him.  I'm even willing to bet that Mayfield isn't even better than Trask (this last one is purely my opinion because I think Mayfield sucks - I have NO idea what Trask is).

I don't even think the Bucs would trade for him even if they get an Osweiler offer because the Bucs probably have to do too many contract gymnastics to bring him in.

Tampa's system is a cerebral QB's system.  Talent is actually secondary.  The QB's who've done well in it are Roethlisberger, Palmer, Luck, & Brady... the only one who failed was Winston.  Gabbert is a cerebral QB as is Trask... Mayfield is a reaction QB like Winston.

[jrokh 567]

Mayfield is way better than Gabbert, sorry. It makes little sense for TB to go after him with Brady on the team, but Gabbert is a clipboard holder. Baker finished 10th in the NFL in total QBR 2 years ago.                     . # perspective

[Ray_T 587]

2 hours ago, TBayXXXVII said:

For whatever reason, the Bucs love Gabbert.  He's been with Arians and Leftwich for like 5 years now between AZ and in Tampa, which means he knows the system inside and out.  According to Spotrac.com, the Bucs are about $13M under the cap before signing their draft picks.  Take $5M from that and they're at $8M.  They're going to have to do some fancy work just to get Gronk in if he wants to play.  There's no chance they add another $19M for Mayfield.  Factor in Gabbert's knowledge of the playbook, his cheap salary, the Bucs cap space, Mayfield's contract, and in my opinion... Mayfield isn't even better than Gabbert, Tampa isn't trading for him.  I'm even willing to bet that Mayfield isn't even better than Trask (this last one is purely my opinion because I think Mayfield sucks - I have NO idea what Trask is).

I don't even think the Bucs would trade for him even if they get an Osweiler offer because the Bucs probably have to do too many contract gymnastics to bring him in.

Tampa's system is a cerebral QB's system.  Talent is actually secondary.  The QB's who've done well in it are Roethlisberger, Palmer, Luck, & Brady... the only one who failed was Winston.  Gabbert is a cerebral QB as is Trask... Mayfield is a reaction QB like Winston.

arguably Winston still had some good features.  he threw for 5000 yards.  his issue was the INT's.  

but yeah, makes sense.  this is why I like getting the homers to chime in on situations sometimes.    cap wise you are correct. it doesnt work for them.

but you get the concept.   early season injury means teams are more likely to look at him and his 19 M contract (or whatever it happens to be)

the tough part is making the contract bit work in his case.... but I think if this is the last year of the contract, it does make more sense because its one and done in terms of cost.  no buyout, no fuss.     so its not impossible to move him so long as the asking price is somewhat reasonable.    That said with the looming suspension of his replacement, maybe they just keep him a little while longer.   sometimes the simplest solution is the best one.

[TBayXXXVII 2,107]

4 minutes ago, Ray_T said:

arguably Winston still had some good features.  he threw for 5000 yards.  his issue was the INT's.  

but yeah, makes sense.  this is why I like getting the homers to chime in on situations sometimes.    cap wise you are correct. it doesnt work for them.

but you get the concept.   early season injury means teams are more likely to look at him and his 19 M contract (or whatever it happens to be)

the tough part is making the contract bit work in his case.... but I think if this is the last year of the contract, it does make more sense because its one and done in terms of cost.  no buyout, no fuss.     so its not impossible to move him so long as the asking price is somewhat reasonable.    That said with the looming suspension of his replacement, maybe they just keep him a little while longer.   sometimes the simplest solution is the best one.

Yeah, someone may trade for him, but I don't think it's going to be a contender.  I think Cleveland returns the favor to Houston if they trade him.

Here's what I don't get.  I think @jrokh is right about the 5th or 6th round value for Mayfield, but I don't think that's what Cleveland wants.  I think they want a 1st or 2nd because if they would take a 5th or 6th, I'd have to imagine that there would have been some team willing to part with that during or before the draft.  If the money is the issue, then as I said, it would have to be an Osweiler-type deal where the Browns have to pay someone to take him.  In either case, someone would have made that deal by now.  The only reason why he's still on the team is because the Browns want more or they think Watson is getting suspended and they need a viable option for a period of time.  I'm sorry, by Jacoby Brisett is not that.  Any game that he starts is an implied loss.  Mayfield could win them some games.

[Ray_T 587]

34 minutes ago, jrokh said:

Mayfield is way better than Gabbert, sorry. It makes little sense for TB to go after him with Brady on the team, but Gabbert is a clipboard holder. Baker finished 10th in the NFL in total QBR 2 years ago.                     . # perspective

as mentioned by TBay it is likelky more a cap thing and a time to learn the system thing if what hes saying is correct. I personally have no reason to suspect his cap rationale is wrong.  the team has been flirting with the cap for a while so opening up 19 mil for a guy like him might not be a reasonable ask.   so it's  probably more a cap issue than a system issue. (though both are probably factors)

also I truly think its smarter to spend like 6-8 mil to get an Andy Dalton if you need someone to fill in for 5-10 games while your starter gets hurt.   he wont wreck your cap situation and the difference between him and Mayfield isnt THAT great.  certainly not 10M worth.  so if cap strapped, that may be the better solution.

either way,  it doesnt matter yet.  Brady aint hurt, so lets not worry about it.

[TBayXXXVII 2,107]

2 hours ago, Ray_T said:

Brady aint hurt

...AND STOP JINXING IT!!!!  

[TBayXXXVII 2,107]

3 hours ago, jrokh said:

Mayfield is way better than Gabbert, sorry. It makes little sense for TB to go after him with Brady on the team, but Gabbert is a clipboard holder. Baker finished 10th in the NFL in total QBR 2 years ago.                     . # perspective

Any team who believes that the 2020 wasn't a fluke would have GLADLY paid a 5th or 6th rounder for him this off season already.  He wouldn't be on the Browns right now.  He's the next Jameis Winston/Marcus Mariota.  A team's last resort where he'll bounce around before becoming... well, the next Blaine Gabbert.

[Utilit99 4,099]

1 hour ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Any team who believes that the 2020 wasn't a fluke would have GLADLY paid a 5th or 6th rounder for him this off season already.  He wouldn't be on the Browns right now.  He's the next Jameis Winston/Marcus Mariota.  A team's last resort where he'll bounce around before becoming... well, the next Blaine Gabbert.

But who's going to start the coffee maker at Cleveland's stadium every morning if he leaves?

[jrokh 567]

1 hour ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Any team who believes that the 2020 wasn't a fluke would have GLADLY paid a 5th or 6th rounder for him this off season already.  He wouldn't be on the Browns right now.  He's the next Jameis Winston/Marcus Mariota.  A team's last resort where he'll bounce around before becoming... well, the next Blaine Gabbert.

You said Gabbert was better than Mayfield( I’ll just ignore the idiocy of Trask being better for now). I demonstrated just one example of how baker is better. If Gabbert made 18 million and had a big chip on his shoulder no one would want him even for free. If Baker got released I’d wager a bunch of teams would vie for his services…

[TBayXXXVII 2,107]

3 minutes ago, jrokh said:

You said Gabbert was better than Mayfield( I’ll just ignore the idiocy of Trask being better for now). I demonstrated just one example of how baker is better. If Gabbert made 18 million and had a big chip on his shoulder no one would want him even for free. If Baker got released I’d wager a bunch of teams would vie for his services…

Mayfield blows.  No one will want him.  I stand corrected.  They'll "want" him the same way teams wanted Mariota and Winston.  They took them because they were dirt cheap and were going to be used as backups... kind of like Blane Gabbert.  But Gabbert doesn't suck as a backup... Mayfield, like Mariota and Winston, will.

[jrokh 567]

Winston has also been better than Gabbert. He is only useful when holding a clipboard. If Gabbert ever actually had to play the Bucs would be screwed. At least with Baker or Jameis you’d have a fighting chance. Take off the homer glasses, maybe you’ll see things a little clearer…

[Ray_T 587]

9 minutes ago, jrokh said:

You said Gabbert was better than Mayfield( I’ll just ignore the idiocy of Trask being better for now). I demonstrated just one example of how baker is better. If Gabbert made 18 million and had a big chip on his shoulder no one would want him even for free. If Baker got released I’d wager a bunch of teams would vie for his services…

I didnt think he meant Gabbert was better I think he meant Tampa liked him.

that said the two are not comparable.  look at Gabberts career stats and look at Mayfield.   at least mayfield has had seasons where he puts up 3500 passing yards.  Gabbert hasnt come close to that.   

By that measure I'd argue Dalton is the best of the bunch as hes at least had some 4000 yard seasons..    yet there he is unsigned and cheaper than Mayfield.

obviously there are other things to consider such as health.  Dalton has been hurt a lot of late.

but you get my point.  its not always about the stats.  its money health and other intangibles too.

 

[jrokh 567]

16 minutes ago, Ray_T said:

I didnt think he meant Gabbert was better I think he meant Tampa liked him.

that said the two are not comparable.  look at Gabberts career stats and look at Mayfield.   at least mayfield has had seasons where he puts up 3500 passing yards.  Gabbert hasnt come close to that.   

By that measure I'd argue Dalton is the best of the bunch as hes at least had some 4000 yard seasons..    yet there he is unsigned and cheaper than Mayfield.

obviously there are other things to consider such as health.  Dalton has been hurt a lot of late.

but you get my point.  its not always about the stats.  its money health and other intangibles too.

 

Agreed not about who is better in a vacuum, but TB is clearly saying HE thinks Gabbert and even Trask are better than Baker. TB is probably getting nervous the KC fans are vying to steal his title of biggest homer in this forearm…

[TBayXXXVII 2,107]

16 minutes ago, jrokh said:

Agreed not about who is better in a vacuum, but TB is clearly saying HE thinks Gabbert and even Trask are better than Baker. TB is probably getting nervous the KC fans are vying to steal his title of biggest homer in this forearm…

Gabbert, just like Winston, Mariota, and Mayfield, is an NFL backup.  None are starters.  If you want to rank Mayfield 33... go ahead.  He's not leading or carrying a team anywhere unless its to a losing record.  Same with the other 3.  With Trask, the fact that he's on Tampa is irrelevant... its that he hasn't proven that he sucks and that he's not an NFL starter... the other 4 have.   I'll include every QB in this years draft in that too, as well as Mond & Davis from last year.  I'll take all of them over Gabbert, Winston, Mariota, and Mayfield.

[Ray_T 587]

6 minutes ago, jrokh said:

Agreed not about who is better in a vacuum, but TB is clearly saying HE thinks Gabbert and even Trask are better than Baker. TB is probably getting nervous the KC fans are vying to steal his title of biggest homer in this forearm…

maybe I misunderstood him.

I got the impression he was saying that Tampa cant afford him.    they right now cant afford gronk if he returns they wont be able to find 19 mil for him.   that I get fully.

then he suggested it was a system fit thing.   he could be right there too.   if the system takes a while for a QB to 'get' then bringing him in a month prior to the season wont get the job done.   then again bringing anyone in wont get it done at that point  I guess either.    

he also said Tampa really likes Gabbert.   Maybe they do.   I'm certainly not in a position to say hes wrong.  hes more likely to know that than I am.

I never got the impression he said Gabbert was better.  I think he suggested his career is headed in the same direction as Gabbert, and he may be right on that.   

But lets be clear.   Gabbert isnt the same QB.  they are not even close.  Gabbert has never had a 3000 yard passing season in his career.   Baker has had 3500+ seasons.   while not spectacular, its serviceable if the team has a good Defense.

To that end, I think Baker may be good enough to start somewhere?   but hes a low end starter in my opinion.  Middling starter at best.

the reason I think hes not being traded is (this is a rumour) The browns are asking for a 2nd round pick for him.

if that is true, that would be the reason hes still a brown.   hes not worth that much.   Hes might be worth a third.  but not a second.  not with the cap hit hes got.

 

[TBayXXXVII 2,107]

21 minutes ago, Ray_T said:

maybe I misunderstood him.

I got the impression he was saying that Tampa cant afford him.    they right now cant afford gronk if he returns they wont be able to find 19 mil for him.   that I get fully.

then he suggested it was a system fit thing.   he could be right there too.   if the system takes a while for a QB to 'get' then bringing him in a month prior to the season wont get the job done.   then again bringing anyone in wont get it done at that point  I guess either.    

he also said Tampa really likes Gabbert.   Maybe they do.   I'm certainly not in a position to say hes wrong.  hes more likely to know that than I am.

I never got the impression he said Gabbert was better.  I think he suggested his career is headed in the same direction as Gabbert, and he may be right on that.   

But lets be clear.   Gabbert isnt the same QB.  they are not even close.  Gabbert has never had a 3000 yard passing season in his career.   Baker has had 3500+ seasons.   while not spectacular, its serviceable if the team has a good Defense.

To that end, I think Baker may be good enough to start somewhere?   but hes a low end starter in my opinion.  Middling starter at best.

the reason I think hes not being traded is (this is a rumour) The browns are asking for a 2nd round pick for him.

if that is true, that would be the reason hes still a brown.   hes not worth that much.   Hes might be worth a third.  but not a second.  not with the cap hit hes got.

 

While it's rare, he's right.  I think Gabbert is better than Mayfield.  Mayfield isn't an NFL starter.  The only good season Mayfield had, was when there were only a few fans in the stadiums.  As I said in my response to him, Gabbert isn't a starter either.  I rate Gabbert over Mayfield because I've seen Gabbert play with this team and he's played well.  I don't think Mayfield can play well anywhere.  You think Mayfield is a starter, that's fine.  Not everyone is going to agree.  I think they both are crappy starters and are career backups.  If those are my two options, I'd rather go with Trask.  He actually might be a starter.  Apparently the Bucs think so too.  No one drafts a QB in the 2nd or 3rd round with EXPECTATION, that they're career backups.  Guys taken in those rounds are guys teams think are starters, but just need a little more time.  Tampa drafted Trask with the full expectation of him getting a chance to start this very season if Brady retired and/or definitely start in 2023.

[Ray_T 587]

17 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

I think Gabbert is better than Mayfield.  Mayfield isn't an NFL starter.  The only good season Mayfield had, was when there were only a few fans in the stadiums.  As I said in my response to him, Gabbert isn't a starter either. 

ok I see where you are coming from.  I dont agree on Gabbert being better than Mayfield, but I agree Mayfield may be headed toward being a backup.

key word is May.   cant say for sure as part of the problem there might have been coaching and player management.  a different system with better coaching may yield better results for him.

He has things to work on, and if he doesnt resolve  or fix those, he could well be headed toward being a backup soon enough.

I"m not sure hes there yet.     but I respect where you are coming from.

I do agree, hes not likely a franchise QB.

I think maybe you are wearing the homer glasses on Gabbert a bit.   but you also see more of him than I do, so maybe you see some things I have not.   

either way... good chat.

[jrokh 567]

1 hour ago, TBayXXXVII said:

While it's rare, he's right.  I think Gabbert is better than Mayfield.  Mayfield isn't an NFL starter.  The only good season Mayfield had, was when there were only a few fans in the stadiums.  As I said in my response to him, Gabbert isn't a starter either.  I rate Gabbert over Mayfield because I've seen Gabbert play with this team and he's played well.  I don't think Mayfield can play well anywhere.  You think Mayfield is a starter, that's fine.  Not everyone is going to agree.  I think they both are crappy starters and are career backups.  If those are my two options, I'd rather go with Trask.  He actually might be a starter.  Apparently the Bucs think so too.  No one drafts a QB in the 2nd or 3rd round with EXPECTATION, that they're career backups.  Guys taken in those rounds are guys teams think are starters, but just need a little more time.  Tampa drafted Trask with the full expectation of him getting a chance to start this very season if Brady retired and/or definitely start in 2023.

Statistically its not even close, see for yourself:

https://stathead.com/tiny/O2hSe