Chiefs Trade Tyreek Hill to Miami

[weepaws 2,452]

I think it’s a big disappointment for Waddle owners.  

They don’t have a Qb that can support both Waddle and Hill plus Gescki , and they added another ppr rb in Edmonds. 

Everyone one on the Dolphins takes a hit down , and on KC.  

A ff killer. 

 

[cmh6476 748]

I'm ok with this.   Getting a haul compared to signing reek for what he wanted and hamstring the roster at other positions. 

[weepaws 2,452]

You’re ok with your team being last in their division is ok by me, another non super bowl season with Mahomes at Qb.  

[cmh6476 748]

can another team win the afc west before you go talking sh1t?  How many years in a row has it been?

[IGotWorms 3,302]

17 minutes ago, cmh6476 said:

I'm ok with this.   Getting a haul compared to signing reek for what he wanted and hamstring the roster at other positions. 

You should be. Got all those picks and not saddled with another ridiculous contract. Realistically the best case scenario for KC 

[Phil Simms 11 127]

16 minutes ago, weepaws said:

I think it’s a big disappointment for Waddle owners.  

They don’t have a Qb that can support both Waddle and Hill plus Gescki , and they added another ppr rb in Edmonds. 

Everyone one on the Dolphins takes a hit down , and on KC.  

A ff killer. 

 

Edmonds, Hill, Waddle, Gesicki - Tua gains value. 

[Showboat 143]

 

4 hours ago, Mike FF Today said:

Miami depth chart...

QB Tua Tagovailoa
RB Chase Edmonds
RB Raheem Mostert
WR Tyreek Hill
WR Jaylen Waddle
WR Cedrick Wilson
WR DeVante Parker (moving on?)
TE Mike Gesicki

Nothing there impresses me.  I guess Hill and Waddle could make a potent duo, but will Tua be able to deliver the ball?  Mostert is getting a bit long in the tooth and outside of a few flashes in SF, never really produced much.  When given the opportunity, Edmonds pretty much always under-achieved.  Wilson, Parker and Gesicki are JAGs.  

[cmh6476 748]

10 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

You should be. Got all those picks and not saddled with another ridiculous contract. Realistically the best case scenario for KC 

Exactly

[cmh6476 748]

I think we may also be underscoring the boost this could give to Hardman.  He should be coming into his own in his third season.   Kelce, juju, Hardman, add a value FA and draft a young receiver and this offense may not miss a beat. 

[Ray_T 587]

33 minutes ago, Phil Simms 11 said:

Edmonds, Hill, Waddle, Gesicki - Tua gains value. 

sure he gains value.

the question is.... how much value does he gain?

Lets put it this way, whatever Tua does with this offense likely represents his maximum upside as a pro (or at least close to it)

if he cant cut it with this group of receivers, hes not worthy of playing professional football.

 

[IGotWorms 3,302]

25 minutes ago, cmh6476 said:

I think we may also be underscoring the boost this could give to Hardman.  He should be coming into his own in his third season.   Kelce, juju, Hardman, add a value FA and draft a young receiver and this offense may not miss a beat. 

I’ve been waiting two years for Hardman to emerge. Maybe this is finally the year but I ain’t holding my breath

[Phil Simms 11 127]

17 minutes ago, Ray_T said:

sure he gains value.

the question is.... how much value does he gain?

Lets put it this way, whatever Tua does with this offense likely represents his maximum upside as a pro (or at least close to it)

if he cant cut it with this group of receivers, hes not worthy of playing professional football.

 

Tua - I wouldn’t take him as a QB 1 but early QB 2, I think he is closer 12 than 18 now.

 

And Mahomes isn’t really a DND but he will go too soon based on name value so I’d expect not to have him on any teams 

[weepaws 2,452]

1 hour ago, cmh6476 said:

can another team win the afc west before you go talking sh1t?  How many years in a row has it been?

 

1 hour ago, weepaws said:

You’re ok with your team being last in their division is ok by me, another non super bowl season with Mahomes at Qb.  

3 of them.  

[weepaws 2,452]

1 hour ago, Phil Simms 11 said:

Edmonds, Hill, Waddle, Gesicki - Tua gains value. 

Mmm by some I’m sure, not by me, he avg 17 points per game last season, he’ll be about the same this season. 

So I would disagree, his adp is going to be higher, and that’s a good thing for me.  

Reminds me of the Gmen great D Jones from last season, how he was going to improve so much with their new addition. 

[weepaws 2,452]

55 minutes ago, cmh6476 said:

I think we may also be underscoring the boost this could give to Hardman.  He should be coming into his own in his third season.   Kelce, juju, Hardman, add a value FA and draft a young receiver and this offense may not miss a beat. 

Lol right, didn’t we see how good Juju was when Brown was no longer a Steeler.  

I think Juju took hit losing a stud like Hill.  

Hardman isn’t going to be anything more then what he has been. 

[weepaws 2,452]

20 minutes ago, Phil Simms 11 said:

Tua - I wouldn’t take him as a QB 1 but early QB 2, I think he is closer 12 than 18 now.

 

And Mahomes isn’t really a DND but he will go too soon based on name value so I’d expect not to have him on any teams 

Mahomes as been going to soon since 2018, that was the last time he was the number one ff Qb.  

If you draft a Qb in the first three rounds he better be the number one Qb for that season.  

[weepaws 2,452]

1 hour ago, Showboat said:

 

Nothing there impresses me.  I guess Hill and Waddle could make a potent duo, but will Tua be able to deliver the ball?  Mostert is getting a bit long in the tooth and outside of a few flashes in SF, never really produced much.  When given the opportunity, Edmonds pretty much always under-achieved.  Wilson, Parker and Gesicki are JAGs.  

Nice post.  Agreed.  

[cmh6476 748]

Weepaws maybe more negative than posty

[weepaws 2,452]

5 minutes ago, cmh6476 said:

Weepaws maybe more negative than posty

I told right after they won their super bowl with Mahomes that would be their last one with him as Qb. 

Now watch your dancing banana turn into a squishy squash.  And please don’t use caps for my name, only God is deserving of caps. 

Welcome. 

[AxeElf 787]

1 hour ago, cmh6476 said:

I think we may also be underscoring the boost this could give to Hardman.  He should be coming into his own in his third season.   Kelce, juju, Hardman, add a value FA and draft a young receiver and this offense may not miss a beat. 

I dunno that the Chiefs are who they were when Hill was a thing anyway.  17 games last year, and Hill had fewer yards and TDs than he's had in 15 and 16 game seasons in the past.  His average yards per catch was WAY down from a previous career average around 15.5 to only 11.2 in 2021.  On the other hand, he made 15 more first downs than in any other year of his career, which also points to the balance shifting towards more short- to mid-range targets than deep ones.

Now that every team in the league thinks that the only chance they have against Mahomes is to pressure him mercilessly, the Chiefs have gone from a home-run hitting highlight play team to a more controlled, possession type passing game.  Hence the signing of Juju.  And hence the dangling of Hill for the material to address other needs all around the team.  They just don't NEED Hill streaking deep every play any more.  They'll still have Hardman to keep the deep coverage honest, but the game is going to be underneath with Kelce, Juju, Pringle and the RBs.

Longer times of possession.

More sustained drives.

Inevitable.

[kcBlitzkrieg 17]

 

5 hours ago, Ray_T said:

if they keep Parker they could run the Spread offense.   4 WR's all running routes.   tough to blitz when you have that many WR out running routes.

it could potentially create significant mismatches in the secondary.

 

 

2 hours ago, AxeElf said:

Yeah, it's a much bigger disappointment for Hill owners than it is for Mahomes owners.

 

Yes, much bigger issue for Hill.  Dude just got paid and already has a ring, he set.  Only way Tyreek stays elite WR1 is if Daniels uses him like Deebo.  

Phins HC runs that Shanny wide zone run scheme, no Spread offense coming to Miami.  

[cmh6476 748]

52 minutes ago, AxeElf said:

I dunno that the Chiefs are who they were when Hill was a thing anyway.  17 games last year, and Hill had fewer yards and TDs than he's had in 15 and 16 game seasons in the past.  His average yards per catch was WAY down from a previous career average around 15.5 to only 11.2 in 2021.  On the other hand, he made 15 more first downs than in any other year of his career, which also points to the balance shifting towards more short- to mid-range targets than deep ones.

Now that every team in the league thinks that the only chance they have against Mahomes is to pressure him mercilessly, the Chiefs have gone from a home-run hitting highlight play team to a more controlled, possession type passing game.  Hence the signing of Juju.  And hence the dangling of Hill for the material to address other needs all around the team.  They just don't NEED Hill streaking deep every play any more.  They'll still have Hardman to keep the deep coverage honest, but the game is going to be underneath with Kelce, Juju, Pringle and the RBs.

Longer times of possession.

More sustained drives.

Inevitable.

Yes but Pringle is with the bears

[AxeElf 787]

1 hour ago, cmh6476 said:

Yes but Pringle is with the bears

Well that sucks.  He was just about to become fantasy relevant.

Well, they have like 27 other WRs on the roster to choose from at the moment.

[weepaws 2,452]

Hill would have been very valuable for JuJu.  

 

[Bills04 45]

I read somewhere that MIA will be giving Hill a 4-year, $120M contract.  KC didn't (can't??) want to pay that kind of money, on top of Mahomes', Kelce's, and some of the defensive players' contracts.

[TBayXXXVII 2,107]

18 hours ago, IGotWorms said:

I don’t understand the move at all, but that is a hell of a starting group. Better all stay healthy though since they’ll have nothing behind them and probably no defense

It makes less sense when you consider that Davonte Adams would be a better fit, lower trade cost, and cheaper money.

[cmh6476 748]

It'll be interesting to see what the Chiefs try and do from here, as they just freed up a ton of cap space.  Reports saying Chiefs inquiring about DK and Lockett, Valdez-Scantling is visiting, hearing theya re looking into Laviska Shenault...

Not like they're over there just sitting on their hands.  In addition, the Chiefs have recognized some real success in recent drafts, without having 1st round picks in '16, '18, '19, and '21.  I think the Chiefs are still going to be fine.

[jrokh 567]

7 minutes ago, cmh6476 said:

I think the Chiefs are still going to be fine.

Perhaps, but they just got worse and everyone else in their division got waaaay better…

[TBayXXXVII 2,107]

1 hour ago, cmh6476 said:

It'll be interesting to see what the Chiefs try and do from here, as they just freed up a ton of cap space.  Reports saying Chiefs inquiring about DK and Lockett, Valdez-Scantling is visiting, hearing theya re looking into Laviska Shenault...

Not like they're over there just sitting on their hands.  In addition, the Chiefs have recognized some real success in recent drafts, without having 1st round picks in '16, '18, '19, and '21.  I think the Chiefs are still going to be fine.

Metcalf makes the most sense, but kinda doesn't.  From a talent/skill set stand point, he's a perfect fit.  But, he's a FA after this season.  He's going to be expensive to acquire.  Not only that, he's going to be expensive to pay next year.  If the Chiefs didn't want to go 3 more years at $25M AAV with Hill, do you think they're going to want to go 5 years / $28M AAV with Metcalf next year?  If they do, aren't they worse from a cap stand point than what they'd have been with Hill?

Lockett is much older and has 4 years left on his deal at a respectable number, but you'll likely release him after the 2023 season (where he's set to make $15M a year over the following 2 seasons).  From a cap stand point, this is the guy to go get.  Plus, he's still solid.  He's probably the best choice because you'll have 2 cheap seasons with him and enough time to upgrade the position through the draft.

Scantling is a mediocre WR at best.  He's a "JAG".  Adding him is fine, but he's not really going to "improve" the team.

I've always thought highly of Shenault.  He could be a really good player.  The thing is, wouldn't you be cautious of the deal if they did acquire him?  Or, possibly ticked off?  I say that because Jacksonville just spent a #1 pick on a QB and their #1 objective is to give him help.  If the Jags traded their best WR, you'd have to think that 1) Maybe the Jags don't think he's really all that good... causing you to be skeptical of Shenault's true talent or 2) You paid a fortune to get him because the Jags love him and wouldn't just let him go while trying to help their young QB.

 

I think Jarvis Landry is the guy they should go after.  The dude can catch and won't be expensive.  Wouldn't be a bad idea to throw $5M at Beasley too.  Add those two plus a Round 1 WR this year, and they'll be in good shape talent-wise and financially.

[Phil Simms 11 127]

Yes to Landry, as I’ve said elsewhere he’s been held back by Baker. He’s not Hill but I’m keeping an eye on where he lands and will target him if it’s a decent spot, like KC. 
 

He may go back to the Browns and I’d buy shares there as well, depending on Watsons availability. 

[Utilit99 4,099]

It's crazy to think the Chiefs have 7 or 8 picks in the first four rounds. I think 4 picks in the first two rounds. They will find receiver help in the draft. 

[cmh6476 748]

5 hours ago, jrokh said:

Perhaps, but they just got worse and everyone else in their division got waaaay better…

The chargers are picked to win the division every year and never do.   Raiders gonna raider.  And fock the donks.

[jrokh 567]

11 minutes ago, cmh6476 said:

The chargers are picked to win the division every year and never do.   Raiders gonna raider.  And fock the donks.

As fans we often tell ourselves what we wish was true, and rarely what is apparently true…

[TBayXXXVII 2,107]

51 minutes ago, cmh6476 said:

The chargers are picked to win the division every year and never do

What?  By who?

[Mike FF Today 607]

Not sure this role is going to work. Hill's not as physical as Deebo and often tries to avoid contact...

 

[Mike FF Today 607]

 

[cmh6476 748]

27 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

What?  By who?

There's always someone out there riding their coattails heading into the season.  They're usually stacked and then deal with injuries through camp for some reason.

[cmh6476 748]

 

[TBayXXXVII 2,107]

13 minutes ago, cmh6476 said:

There's always someone out there riding their coattails heading into the season.  They're usually stacked and then deal with injuries through camp for some reason.

Well sure, there's always the outliers, but they're certainly not the majority... not by a longshot.

[TBayXXXVII 2,107]

10 minutes ago, cmh6476 said:

 

Having the ability to run routes, then catch ball is way more important than speed.  If this guy couldn't put up big numbers in GB, he's certainly not going to in KC.  Northing wrong with the signing, but as I said above, I don't think he improves the team... he's just another random WR that they already have 2 or 3 of (Pringle, Hardman, Robinson).