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Mike FF Today

Doug Orth's Rookie Profiles - 2022

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We'll be kicking off Doug's famous rookie profiles very soon with full reports on the following players...

WR Treylon Burks - 4/14/22
WR George Pickens - 4/21/22
WR Drake London - 4/17/22
WR Garrett Wilson - 4/12/22
WR Chris Olave - 4/19/22
WR Jameson Williams - 4/13/22
WR Christian Watson - 4/24/22
WR Jahan Dotson - 4/25/22
RB Breece Hall - 4/11/22
RB Kenneth Walker - 4/15/22
RB Isaiah Spiller - 4/20/22   
QB Malik Willis - 4/17/22

Best of the Rest - Quarterbacks - 4/28/22
Best of the Rest - Running Backs - 4/28/22
Best of the Rest - Wide Receivers - 4/29/22
Best of the Rest - Tight Ends - 4/29/22

... and we'll also do a "Best of the Rest" grouped by position. The plan is to roll these out one a day leading up to the draft on 4/28. We'll also have full analysis post-draft once we know the landing spots of all the rookies. :cheers:

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55 minutes ago, Mike FF Today said:

We'll be kicking off Doug's famous rookie profiles very soon with full reports on the following players...

WR Treylon Burks
WR George Pickens
WR Drake London
WR Garrett Wilson
WR Chris Olave
WR Jameson Williams
WR Christian Watson
WR Jahan Dotson
RB Breece Hall
RB Kenneth Walker
RB Isaiah Spiller   
QB Malik Willis

... and we'll also do a "Best of the Rest" grouped by position. The plan is to roll these out one a day leading up to the draft on 4/28. We'll also have full analysis post-draft once we know the landing spots of all the rookies. :cheers:

looking forward to it! My own personal pre-draft fantasy top 5: 

5) Chris Olave

4) Jameson Williams

3) Breece Hall

2) Garrett Wilson

1) Kenneth Walker.

I like Pickett more than Willis, but neither in top 5.

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3 hours ago, Mike FF Today said:

Breece Hall is up and running. I'll update the links in original post.

its a nice read too.   Looking forward to seeing the rest.

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Malik Wills: At his best, Willis will occasionally look like Deshaun Watson. At his worst, he plays a lot like Johnny Manziel.

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1 hour ago, Mike FF Today said:

Malik Wills: At his best, Willis will occasionally look like Deshaun Watson. At his worst, he plays a lot like Johnny Manziel.

based on your report it looks like he has a little Sexy Rexy in him too. (Rex Grossman)  though there was no reference, Grossman was guilty of always looking for the big play too.

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Best Scheme Fit for WR Drake London: Initially as a big-bodied red zone target and chain-moving possession receiver. He has eventual alpha upside if he can improve his speed a bit.

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Chris Olave: Speedy No. 2 who can play off the line (Z or slot) initially in the majority of high-volume NFL passing attacks.

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What Spiller lacks in jaw-dropping ability, he makes up for in being very balanced in many important areas for a running back.

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Super excited for "Best of the rest". And can't wait until Guru polishes up his crystal ball and starts taking questions.

I'm ready for him!

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Best Scheme Fit for Christian Watson: A complementary receiver in a run-heavy offense that utilizes a lot of play-action deep shots.

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Doug will be taking over the FFToday Twitter account Thursday night through the end of the draft providing instant fantasy takes on all the relevant skill position players and their landing spots. Make sure you're following us on Twitter!

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Hey all, you can catch me and Rotowire's Jim Coventry on YouTube tonight and tomorrow night talking about the draft and the prospects at 7 pm ET.

Here's the link for tonight's show:

It's going to be on YouTube, so I think you can watch it at your convenience.

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Welcome back Mr Guru.  

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On 4/11/2022 at 10:01 AM, Mike FF Today said:

We'll be kicking off Doug's famous rookie profiles very soon with full reports on the following players...

WR Treylon Burks - 4/14/22
WR George Pickens - 4/21/22
WR Drake London - 4/17/22
WR Garrett Wilson - 4/12/22
WR Chris Olave - 4/19/22
WR Jameson Williams - 4/13/22
WR Christian Watson - 4/24/22
WR Jahan Dotson - 4/25/22
RB Breece Hall - 4/11/22
RB Kenneth Walker - 4/15/22
RB Isaiah Spiller - 4/20/22   
QB Malik Willis - 4/17/22

Best of the Rest - Quarterbacks - 4/28/22
Best of the Rest - Running Backs - 4/28/22
Best of the Rest - Wide Receivers - 4/29/22
Best of the Rest - Tight Ends - 4/29/22

... and we'll also do a "Best of the Rest" grouped by position. The plan is to roll these out one a day leading up to the draft on 4/28. We'll also have full analysis post-draft once we know the landing spots of all the rookies. :cheers:

Grossly underestimates Jameson Williams.  The idea that his floor is a Ted Ginn Jr. is a joke.  Jameson will be better than DeSean Jackson at his peak by his second year.  Jameson is by far the best receiver of this loaded draft class.  Yes, he is not a great blocker.  Yes, he uses his body too much when he catches.  But he runs awesome routes and his stop and go move is uncoverable.  He is a tough runner after the catch and has speed to turn the corner on any defender.  

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4 hours ago, jonmx said:

Grossly underestimates Jameson Williams.  The idea that his floor is a Ted Ginn Jr. is a joke

did you read the review?

They put in a high end comp and a low end comp in there.

Ted Ginn was the low end comp.   that would suggest at worst, he becomes something resembling him.

I would agree that is probably his floor.    It was not an unreasonable statement to make.

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I like the question that was asked, why couldn’t The for two seasons crack the starting lineup while at Ohio St?  

I think the points the OP made including the comparison is right on at this time.  

Thanks. 

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1 hour ago, Ray_T said:

did you read the review?

They put in a high end comp and a low end comp in there.

Ted Ginn was the low end comp.   that would suggest at worst, he becomes something resembling him.

I would agree that is probably his floor.    It was not an unreasonable statement to make.

Yeah, I read the review.  Ted Ginn is an insult even as a floor.  He is way better than Ted Ginn.  And his ceiling is higher than DeSean Jackson.  Jameson has a much higher potential than that with more speed and a better route runner.  

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42 minutes ago, weepaws said:

I like the question that was asked, why couldn’t The for two seasons crack the starting lineup while at Ohio St?  

I think the points the OP made including the comparison is right on at this time.  

Thanks. 

For the same reason Barry Sanders sat behind Thurman Thomas for two seasons.  They were more highly touted coming in and did nothing to lose their position.  You don't leapfrog 5-star all-americans, even if you are better. 

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18 minutes ago, jonmx said:

Yeah, I read the review.  Ted Ginn is an insult even as a floor.  He is way better than Ted Ginn.  And his ceiling is higher than DeSean Jackson.  Jameson has a much higher potential than that with more speed and a better route runner.  

well, I dont think its that much of an insult.

the one knock against the guy is that he's not big.    the problem with Ginn at the pro level was also that he was not big and teams would put a physical defender on him to throw him off his route.

we have not seen your guy at the NFL level.  he has a good size frame, but only 180 lb soaking wet.

see the clip below.   this is not the only scouting report that highlights this.

 

Williams could add about 15 pounds of muscle to his frame and still be considered undersized. He is not nearly strong enough at this point to consistently handle physical coverage from NFL cornerbacks

 

this is not uncommon with small WRs.

The advantage Williams has is hes tall, so he can add muscle to his frame.   they key is to not put the muscle on too quickly or that could ruin his top end speed.

hes is not known as a great blocker. (just like GInn) and he is also coming back from knee surgery.

Stylistically and skill set wise he does compare to Ginn whether you like it or not.   there are definite similarites.

so if Ginn is considered the Low end comp I'm not thinking this is out of line.  Ginn was not considered to be a player lacking skill.  he was drafted 8th or 9th overall in his draft year.  and he suffered some of the same so called deficiencies in his game.

But Ginn is both shorter and weighs less.   to that end, the odds of Williams overcoming these deficiencies is higher than Ginns was due to his tall frame.   but the concerns are still there.

Ginn also had been timed at faster than 4.3 prior to going pro in private workouts, though his combine time was closer to 4.4 (still fast)

You need not take it personally. its just a comparison.   you are never gonna find a player who is exactly the same as any other, so you find one thats presumably inferior and one that is superior and you say hes somewhere in between the two.   Thats fair.   so you need to stop taking these comments personally (unless you are his mother) and chill a bit.

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56 minutes ago, jonmx said:

Yeah, I read the review.  Ted Ginn is an insult even as a floor.  He is way better than Ted Ginn.  And his ceiling is higher than DeSean Jackson.  Jameson has a much higher potential than that with more speed and a better route runner.  

Ted Ginn was a top ten pick in the draft I believe. At the time he was considered to have elite level traits. Look at it more from that perspective. Not that he was a disappointment so therefore Jameson will be a disappointment.

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2 hours ago, jonmx said:

For the same reason Barry Sanders sat behind Thurman Thomas for two seasons.  They were more highly touted coming in and did nothing to lose their position.  You don't leapfrog 5-star all-americans, even if you are better. 

And you don’t if one isn’t better.  

Thanks. 

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6 hours ago, jrokh said:

Ted Ginn was a top ten pick in the draft I believe. At the time he was considered to have elite level traits. Look at it more from that perspective. Not that he was a disappointment so therefore Jameson will be a disappointment.

Sorry, it is a crap comparison and an insult.

 

Ted Ginn Jr.

59-791-9

 

Jameson Williams

79-1571-15

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3 minutes ago, jonmx said:

Sorry, it is a crap comparison and an insult.

 

Ted Ginn Jr.

59-791-9

 

Jameson Williams

79-1571-15

I don’t really have a dog in this fight, but if you are really that insulted by the comp, then you have much bigger problems. I can only imagine how you must feel watching the worst team in football for decades. Good luck with all that…

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12 hours ago, jrokh said:

I don’t really have a dog in this fight, but if you are really that insulted by the comp, then you have much bigger problems. I can only imagine how you must feel watching the worst team in football for decades. Good luck with all that…

Ted Ginn was a speedster who never had his heart in football and was never really that good.  Jameson is a football player with a much better skillset who loves to play and has a chip on his shoulders.  I see Jameson as the best WR in this draft who has a combination of freakish speed while still having elite talent that the NFL has not seen before, with the exception of someone like Randy Moss. Jameson was the consensus #1 prior to the ACL.  He is not perfect.  He could be bulkier and stronger, but much of the negatives against him are overstated and ends up being weak analysis.  

  

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4 hours ago, jonmx said:

Ted Ginn was a speedster who never had his heart in football and was never really that good.  Jameson is a football player with a much better skillset who loves to play and has a chip on his shoulders.  I see Jameson as the best WR in this draft who has a combination of freakish speed while still having elite talent that the NFL has not seen before, with the exception of someone like Randy Moss. Jameson was the consensus #1 prior to the ACL.  He is not perfect.  He could be bulkier and stronger, but much of the negatives against him are overstated and ends up being weak analysis.  

  

I think you are wrong here guy.  and the fact you are predicting 1500+ yards for the guy this year tells me you are not applying any form of logic or reason to your analysis. 

I am personally predicting about 600 yards and a handful of TD's in his rookie year.  

He will be better next year, but not this year.

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4 hours ago, jonmx said:

Ted Ginn was a speedster who never had his heart in football and was never really that good.  Jameson is a football player with a much better skillset who loves to play and has a chip on his shoulders.  I see Jameson as the best WR in this draft who has a combination of freakish speed while still having elite talent that the NFL has not seen before, with the exception of someone like Randy Moss. Jameson was the consensus #1 prior to the ACL.  He is not perfect.  He could be bulkier and stronger, but much of the negatives against him are overstated and ends up being weak analysis.  

  

I watched a lot of Alabama last season. Jameson is a really good talent. If he didn't get hurt he might have been WR1 in the draft instead of WR4. The Hyperbolic, Homer-Goggle infused Randy Moss comp notwithstanding, I don't think you understand how a scouting report works. If he was compared to Ted Ginn and that's was the comp I might be more sympathetic, but that was the low end comp, as in worst case scenario. I would love the Guru to come on here and take you to school, but he probably wouldn't waste his time on a Lions fanboy with delusions of grandeur...

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1 hour ago, jrokh said:

I watched a lot of Alabama last season. Jameson is a really good talent. If he didn't get hurt he might have been WR1 in the draft instead of WR4. The Hyperbolic, Homer-Goggle infused Randy Moss comp notwithstanding, I don't think you understand how a scouting report works. If he was compared to Ted Ginn and that's was the comp I might be more sympathetic, but that was the low end comp, as in worst case scenario. I would love the Guru to come on here and take you to school, but he probably wouldn't waste his time on a Lions fanboy with delusions of grandeur...

honestly we are probably dumb to be arguing with him too.

guy has no logic or reason to the analysis.  he reminds me of that Joker who came on a few years ago saying Rothlisberger was gonna throw for 6000 yards and 60 TDs or something of the like.  Remember him?

his max upside for this year is likely in the 850-900 yard range.  and thats if everything goes well for him.

I'd give him a higher max but he is coming off of ACL surgery, and while you can return in 12 months, it is ususally a full 2 years until you are fully back up to speed.

so I cannot see him exceeding that in his rookie season with this additional handicap to boot.

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3 hours ago, jrokh said:

I watched a lot of Alabama last season. Jameson is a really good talent. If he didn't get hurt he might have been WR1 in the draft instead of WR4. The Hyperbolic, Homer-Goggle infused Randy Moss comp notwithstanding, I don't think you understand how a scouting report works. If he was compared to Ted Ginn and that's was the comp I might be more sympathetic, but that was the low end comp, as in worst case scenario. I would love the Guru to come on here and take you to school, but he probably wouldn't waste his time on a Lions fanboy with delusions of grandeur...

Oh sure.  It is really informative to 'predict' someone may either be a complete disappointment or an perennial all-pro.  It is about like flipping a coin and saying it will be heads or tails.  Worthless insight.  And BTW. Jameson is far closer to Randy Moss than he is to Ginn.

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3 hours ago, Ray_T said:

honestly we are probably dumb to be arguing with him too.

Yep. Time to move on folks...

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