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wolves111

Jalen Hurts

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He's a polarizing player among Eagles fans. The weak part of his game is accuracy, ability to read a defense, and an average arm. The strength of his game however, ability to put up rushing stats, enhances his FF value despite less-than-ideal mechanics. Sirianni had to change the offense to accommodate his playing style.

He put up 312 FF points last season which is pretty impressive for such a young QB.  The first half of the season he averaged 22 pts/week. The second half it dropped to 15/wk. The league figured him out quickly. This offseason they added A J Brown to the offense. Local talk radio hosts are predicting big things for both he and the Birds. The callers are a little less optimistic. 

Would you be comfortable taking Hurts at his average ADP of 80 (round 8 in a 10 team, ppr, redraft)?

 

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He’s a great double digit round draft pick. 

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1 hour ago, wolves111 said:

Would you be comfortable taking Hurts at his average ADP of 80 (round 8 in a 10 team, ppr, redraft)?

 

 

Just now, weepaws said:

He’s a great double digit round draft pick. 

 

I checked a few sites and he is going even earlier than Wolves suggests. He is going 6th round in a 12 team league.

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However, pick 79 would equate to 6th rd in a 12-team league. This same site has Wilson at 88. Seems like he's being undervalued because of last year. I'd be more inclined to take Wilson before Hurts.

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I would take Wilson before Hurts.  

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" The weak part of his game is accuracy, ability to read a defense, and an average arm. "

That doesn't bode well for his long term success. However, for this upcoming season, he should be a decent fantasy QB.

QBs that rely heavily on their rushing stats mostly rely on rushing TDs. Those tend to fluctuate quite a bit with QBs.

He had 10 last season if I remember correctly. They don't have much in terms of a reliable RB, so I wouldn't be surprised if he scores quite a few again this season.

Of course, with undersized, running QBs, he's a big injury risk.

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23 minutes ago, polecatt said:

That doesn't bode well for his long term success. However, for this upcoming season, he should be a decent fantasy QB.

QBs that rely heavily on their rushing stats mostly rely on rushing TDs. Those tend to fluctuate quite a bit with QBs.

He had 10 last season if I remember correctly. They don't have much in terms of a reliable RB, so I wouldn't be surprised if he scores quite a few again this season.

Of course, with undersized, running QBs, he's a big injury risk.

Yeah, even the bigger running and/or mobile QB's get hurt. Cam Newton, Wentz, are two examples. Guys like Murray and Josh Allen can make you hold your breath at times.

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3 hours ago, wolves111 said:

He's a polarizing player among Eagles fans. The weak part of his game is accuracy, ability to read a defense, and an average arm. The strength of his game however, ability to put up rushing stats, enhances his FF value despite less-than-ideal mechanics. Sirianni had to change the offense to accommodate his playing style.

He put up 312 FF points last season which is pretty impressive for such a young QB.  The first half of the season he averaged 22 pts/week. The second half it dropped to 15/wk. The league figured him out quickly. This offseason they added A J Brown to the offense. Local talk radio hosts are predicting big things for both he and the Birds. The callers are a little less optimistic. 

Would you be comfortable taking Hurts at his average ADP of 80 (round 8 in a 10 team, ppr, redraft)?

 

Jalen Hurts is 2 separate arguments.  The NFL argument...

Living in South Jersey (Eagle country), I don't think there's a polarizing sentiment among Eagles fans on Jalen Hurts.  I think for the most part, they're all in agreement... well about 90+%, on WHO he is.  As you point out your assessment of him, "The weak part of his game is accuracy, ability to read a defense, and an average arm."  Eagles fans are agreement with you, by and large.  The polarizing aspect for Eagles fans is what to do with the team.  About half of them wanted the Eagles to move on from him during the off-season while their counterparts think they should just ride out the year with him and see what happens.  While a portion of the "ride out the year" crowd thinks that they should only do it because he's cheap and you can build the team up first, there's a good portion of that crowd who thinks he could get better.

I'm among the group who thinks the Eagles approached the off-season correctly where they trade down to acquire more picks for next year and still improve the team through the draft.  Add assets for next year because I think Hurts isn't an NFL starter you can rely on to win games with.  Use those assets next year to trade up (if necessary), to get your franchise QB.

From a fantasy perspective...

Jalen Hurts is Michael Vick 2.0 where he's a much better fantasy football player than a real football player.  Taking Jalen Hurts to me, is kind of like taking Dalvin Cook.  You know he's going to put up numbers, but it's just a matter of time until he gets hurt... so you have to take a backup sooner than you'd like to because when he does get hurt, you'll need a viable option.

Seems to me that Hurts' "Michael Vickness" is baked in to his ADP.  I checked a few projections and all of them seem to be inline with each other.  Hurts is projected to finish between 4 and 6 among QB's, but he's being taken as the 10th off the board.  I think people have him read right.  He's not a good QB, but a good fantasy points producer.  Take him knowing he could help you win, but know there's a chance he'll either a) get hurt or b) he just stinks as a QB and he loses his job because he's causing the team to lose.  I think "a" is much more likely than "b", but "b" is certainly not out of the question.

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24 minutes ago, wolves111 said:

Yeah, even the bigger running and/or mobile QB's get hurt. Cam Newton, Wentz, are two examples. Guys like Murray and Josh Allen can make you hold your breath at times.

Not as much with Allen because he's actually a good "QB", not just an "athletic" QB.  If he was forced to be a pocket passer who moved in the pocket, he'd still be a winning QB.  I think if you removed the athleticism from Murray (and Lamar too), they're not NFL QB's.  They're not good enough of "passers" to stick in the league.

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Yeah, I think I would take Wilson over Hurts but they are setting him up to have a pretty good year. Tannehill had some rushing tds last year but Hurts.should have better rushing yards and tds.than Tannehill will have. It'll.help the Beagles if Miles Sanders.can stay healthy and be available. They have 2 guys behind that can help.in Scott and Gainwell. If Sanders misses.time I'd prefer Gainwell. Are they gonna lead the league in rushing this year? They may be challenged for that.spit by my S.F. 49ers, especially if Lance.starts all year.                                      Hurts definitely has a shot a being a top10 QB this year. We'll see how that pans out.

 

 

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I hope Hurts is still available in the double digit rounds. But he’ll probably be drafted to early.  

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I actually like Minshew better than Hurts.

but Hurts is currently the starter.  What I'm not sure about is whether it will remain that way.   

 

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I like Minshew also.  He’s played in 27 games , he’s thrown 41 tds with only 12 ints.   That’s pretty good.  

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48 minutes ago, weepaws said:

I like Minshew also.  He’s played in 27 games , he’s thrown 41 tds with only 12 ints.   That’s pretty good.  

it is.   

honestly if I was a QB needy team I'd throw in an offer on him.     clearly its not that easy or the move would be done already.   But I think the kid can play.

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On 6/2/2022 at 11:58 AM, TBayXXXVII said:

Jalen Hurts is 2 separate arguments.  The NFL argument...

Living in South Jersey (Eagle country), I don't think there's a polarizing sentiment among Eagles fans on Jalen Hurts.  I think for the most part, they're all in agreement... well about 90+%, on WHO he is.  As you point out your assessment of him, "The weak part of his game is accuracy, ability to read a defense, and an average arm."  Eagles fans are agreement with you, by and large.  The polarizing aspect for Eagles fans is what to do with the team.  About half of them wanted the Eagles to move on from him during the off-season while their counterparts think they should just ride out the year with him and see what happens.  While a portion of the "ride out the year" crowd thinks that they should only do it because he's cheap and you can build the team up first, there's a good portion of that crowd who thinks he could get better.

I'm among the group who thinks the Eagles approached the off-season correctly where they trade down to acquire more picks for next year and still improve the team through the draft.  Add assets for next year because I think Hurts isn't an NFL starter you can rely on to win games with.  Use those assets next year to trade up (if necessary), to get your franchise QB.

From a fantasy perspective...

Jalen Hurts is Michael Vick 2.0 where he's a much better fantasy football player than a real football player.  Taking Jalen Hurts to me, is kind of like taking Dalvin Cook.  You know he's going to put up numbers, but it's just a matter of time until he gets hurt... so you have to take a backup sooner than you'd like to because when he does get hurt, you'll need a viable option.

Seems to me that Hurts' "Michael Vickness" is baked in to his ADP.  I checked a few projections and all of them seem to be inline with each other.  Hurts is projected to finish between 4 and 6 among QB's, but he's being taken as the 10th off the board.  I think people have him read right.  He's not a good QB, but a good fantasy points producer.  Take him knowing he could help you win, but know there's a chance he'll either a) get hurt or b) he just stinks as a QB and he loses his job because he's causing the team to lose.  I think "a" is much more likely than "b", but "b" is certainly not out of the question.

Well you must not listen to talk radio or read the papers because he is the most polarizing player on any of the four teams in Philly. It’s not even close.

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On 6/2/2022 at 11:58 AM, TBayXXXVII said:

Jalen Hurts is 2 separate arguments.  The NFL argument...

Living in South Jersey (Eagle country), I don't think there's a polarizing sentiment among Eagles fans on Jalen Hurts.  I think for the most part, they're all in agreement... well about 90+%, on WHO he is.  As you point out your assessment of him, "The weak part of his game is accuracy, ability to read a defense, and an average arm."  Eagles fans are agreement with you, by and large.  The polarizing aspect for Eagles fans is what to do with the team.  About half of them wanted the Eagles to move on from him during the off-season while their counterparts think they should just ride out the year with him and see what happens.  While a portion of the "ride out the year" crowd thinks that they should only do it because he's cheap and you can build the team up first, there's a good portion of that crowd who thinks he could get better.

I'm among the group who thinks the Eagles approached the off-season correctly where they trade down to acquire more picks for next year and still improve the team through the draft.  Add assets for next year because I think Hurts isn't an NFL starter you can rely on to win games with.  Use those assets next year to trade up (if necessary), to get your franchise QB.

From a fantasy perspective...

Jalen Hurts is Michael Vick 2.0 where he's a much better fantasy football player than a real football player.  Taking Jalen Hurts to me, is kind of like taking Dalvin Cook.  You know he's going to put up numbers, but it's just a matter of time until he gets hurt... so you have to take a backup sooner than you'd like to because when he does get hurt, you'll need a viable option.

Seems to me that Hurts' "Michael Vickness" is baked in to his ADP.  I checked a few projections and all of them seem to be inline with each other.  Hurts is projected to finish between 4 and 6 among QB's, but he's being taken as the 10th off the board.  I think people have him read right.  He's not a good QB, but a good fantasy points producer.  Take him knowing he could help you win, but know there's a chance he'll either a) get hurt or b) he just stinks as a QB and he loses his job because he's causing the team to lose.  I think "a" is much more likely than "b", but "b" is certainly not out of the question.

Jalen Hurts couldn't carry Michael Vick's jockstrap.

He's another Vince Young

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11 hours ago, wolves111 said:

Well you must not listen to talk radio or read the papers because he is the most polarizing player on any of the four teams in Philly. It’s not even close.

Polarizing based on what?

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10 hours ago, polecatt said:

Jalen Hurts couldn't carry Michael Vick's jockstrap.

He's another Vince Young

You're looking at Michael Vick based on his novelty at the time.  No one did what he did.  Teams weren't ready for him.  Even still, he was a bad passer.  In his 2nd, and 4th through 6th seasons, he averaged 2530 yards, 16 TD's and 11.5 Int's.  In terms of yards, he was 26th, 20th, & 22nd.... Jalen Hurts was 21st last year, he through for 3144 yards with 16 TD's and 9 Ints.  In those 4 years for Vick, he averaged 846 yards and 3.7 TD's... Hurts had 784 yards and 10 TD's.

Simply, you're overrating what Michael Vick was.  One year he was 11-4, in the other 3, he was 23-22-1.

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Guys, never mind the stats.   stylistically Hurts, Young, and Vick were not that different.  Might as well throw Teebow in there too.

Their running ability was more dangerous than their ability to beat you with their arm...  Sure some threw a bit better than others but the style of play is more or less the same.

Thats where they are similar.

They are runners who happen to be able to throw.    As compared to a Mahomes, or a Rothlisberger (in his prime) who is/was a thrower who happens to be able to run.

there is a difference between the two.

I think the Thrower who has the ability to run is the player you want.    The runner who can throw... not as much.   I also think the runner who can throw has a shorter career because they take a lot more hits than your average QB.

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, TBayXXXVII said:

You're looking at Michael Vick based on his novelty at the time.  No one did what he did.  Teams weren't ready for him.  Even still, he was a bad passer.  In his 2nd, and 4th through 6th seasons, he averaged 2530 yards, 16 TD's and 11.5 Int's.  In terms of yards, he was 26th, 20th, & 22nd.... Jalen Hurts was 21st last year, he through for 3144 yards with 16 TD's and 9 Ints.  In those 4 years for Vick, he averaged 846 yards and 3.7 TD's... Hurts had 784 yards and 10 TD's.

Simply, you're overrating what Michael Vick was.  One year he was 11-4, in the other 3, he was 23-22-1.

No, more so the era.

Vick played when you could absolutely obliterate the QB. Vick regularly took vicious hits like pretty much no other QB I've ever seen.

Hurts plays in the modern era which is basically two hand tag for QBs. Let's see him put up those numbers after his 3rd concussion of the season or game even, 😂

Or better yet, it would be fun to see how good Vick would have been in the two hand tag era.

Plus, Vick had big games that could rival anyone in the history of fantasy football. Hurts hasn't.

It's like comparing Justin Herbert to Dan Marino.

Like I said, Jalen Hurts can't carry Vick's jockstrap.

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Vick vs Hurts?

I don't have a dog in that fight...

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27 minutes ago, AxeElf said:

Vick vs Hurts?

I don't have a dog in that fight...

That's just an awful pun.  Well done.

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1 hour ago, Ray_T said:

That's just an awful pun.  Well done.

Awww, c'mon man. It was a good pun. Jalen was asked about the ranking with him ahead of Wilson. People were.saying.that they'd take Wilson ahead of Jalen and he was offended and that the opinion HURTS. Oh Boy!!

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1 hour ago, DocNiner said:

Awww, c'mon man. It was a good pun. Jalen was asked about the ranking with him ahead of Wilson. People were.saying.that they'd take Wilson ahead of Jalen and he was offended and that the opinion HURTS. Oh Boy!!

make that two awful puns.

 

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I always thought Vick should star in a remake of The Longest Yard in which he plays a former NFL QB who goes to jail and organizes a fight between the guard dogs.  Maybe call it "The Loudest Bark" or something...

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3 hours ago, polecatt said:

No, more so the era.

Vick played when you could absolutely obliterate the QB. Vick regularly took vicious hits like pretty much no other QB I've ever seen.

Hurts plays in the modern era which is basically two hand tag for QBs. Let's see him put up those numbers after his 3rd concussion of the season or game even, 😂

Or better yet, it would be fun to see how good Vick would have been in the two hand tag era.

Plus, Vick had big games that could rival anyone in the history of fantasy football. Hurts hasn't.

It's like comparing Justin Herbert to Dan Marino.

Like I said, Jalen Hurts can't carry Vick's jockstrap.

The era's don't affect the running QB's like the pocket passers because these new rules don't really apply.  Once a QB starts running, he's no different than a RB.  Besides, the new rules kicked in 2007.  In 2010, he had a good year passing, but it was 2 years after missing 2 years and he only played in 12 games.  It was much like his 2004 season.  After that, his next 2 seasons in 2011 and 2012, he was the same QB he was from 2005 and 2006.  He's overrated.

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If Hurts ever has a season like 2010 Michael Vick we can revisit the discussion.  1st team all-pro 65.0 Total QBR.  Until then not relatively close…

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Hurts will be lucky if hes not on the bench by mid season.   I dont think hes got what it takes.

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18 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Neither were better than RG3 (2012), QBR of 69.4.

Completely agree.

RG3 was the textbook example of a one hit wonder

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It was fun when the Redskins had two RG3s quarterbacking their team.

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5 minutes ago, AxeElf said:

It was fun when the Redskins had two RG3s quarterbacking their team.

It was also nice when they had a 1600 yd, 13 TD running back

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4 minutes ago, polecatt said:

It was also nice when they had a 1600 yd, 13 TD running back

Was he named RG3 as well?

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3 minutes ago, AxeElf said:

Was he named RG3 as well?

Yes!

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1 hour ago, polecatt said:

It was also nice when they had a 1600 yd, 13 TD running back

I like how you call him a RB instead of a QB.   Nice one.

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5 hours ago, polecatt said:

Yes!

Ok, I'll bite... Who was the 3rd RG3?

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Alfred Morris

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10 minutes ago, polecatt said:

Alfred Morris

That would be AM.

I was talking about Robert Griffin III and Rex Grossman III, who were both QBs for the Redskins at one time--both with the initials RG3.

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