We do not have a Health Care problem in this country

[TBayXXXVII 2,106]

I'm posting this because there seems to be a major misconception about this, and I didn't want to bury it in a thread about whether our country was the best or not.

Now, the only response in this thread should be, "Yes, you're right, we don't not have a health care problem".  If you post something like, "Yes we do...", and give a bunch of reasons, you need to re-read my post and realize that you are wrong.

What we actually have is a lazy, gluttonous, entitled population.  Instead of being more vigilant about our bodies, eating habits, and personal health... we have people who do and eat what they want, when they want, and how they want.  Proof?  Look at our obesity rate.  Look out the number of self-inflicted injuries.  Look at our drug addiction issues.  Look at the number of smokers and drinkers we have.  Look at how many people have medical prescriptions.   What we have is a society that would rather do as they please and take a pill or pillZZZZ, than be more health conscious.

It costs a lot of money to research and produce medications for diabetes.  It costs a lot of money to develop ways to address diabetic consequences, such as removing a limb, heart disease, blindness, etc.  How about lung cancer for people who smoke?  How about cirrhosis of the liver for alcoholics?  How about the people who O.D. on narcotics?   This list goes on and on and on. 

People want to complain about our country's health care problems as compared to others... I tell you, go find me another country that has the same obesity rates, the same lung cancer (smokers), rates, drug overdoses, etc.  You can't, because you won't.  Other countries are more vigilant about their health and their lives.  Yeah, I know... 'ThE FrEnCh SmOkE mOrE tHaN uS", yeah... how's their obesity rate?  How about their murder rates?  How about every other dam reason why we have morons in the emergency room?  How about every other medical condition such as heart disease?  We are the world leader in creating our own problems with concerns about our health... yet, it's always someone else's fault.  It's Big Pharma's fault.  It's the doctor's fault.  It's the insurance companies fault.  NO, IT'S YOUR FAULT.  STOP BEING A SELFISH, LAZY, ENTITLED, GLUTTONOUS FAT FOCK, AND TAKE BETTER CARE OF YOUR BODY!!!

Imagine how much easier and cheaper it would be for people who lost the genetic lottery and develop lung cancer, pancreatic cancer, ovarian/breast/testicular cancer without all these smokers and drinkers adding to the problem.  Imagine how much easier and cheaper it would be to get a doctor's appointment if everyone (except the unlucky few as just noted), only had to go once every 6 months for a checkup.

My dad has been "obese" my whole life.  He's a type 2 diabetic.  He has glaucoma.  He has sleep apnea.  He has bad knees, a bad back, and now, at 76, his mind is going.  He literally takes 8 different medications every day (some multiple times).  Physically, he's starting to waste away as his dementia is doing it's number on him, but he is a walking pharmacy.  Prior to his mental health decline, he was 5'-10'". 300 lbs.  He was never "in shape".  He was fat.  My mother passed away from an infection at age 65, she was 5'-0", 105 lbs, at her heaviest.  She wasn't "fit", just very small.  She took some medications.  My brother is 6'-0", about 310.  He's not as fat as my dad, as he has a lot more muscle, but he's certainly not "healthy".  He's definitely fat.  He's also a smoker.  He's on about 3 or 4 different medications.  The list in my family goes on and on... but me?  I'm 5'-10", 195 lbs with 12% body fat (on the high end of "athletic").  I have ZERO health problems.  I am on ZERO medications.  My levels for cholesterol, blood pressure, & sugar are perfect.  Outside of allergies, I am in perfect health.  My medical costs are virtually zero.  I don't pay anything aside from my co-pays for my checkups.  My brother on the other hand, well, it's a good thing he and my sister-in-law make excellent money.  This is all anecdotal, but I'm willing to bet that (again, outside of the unlucky few - genetic lottery losers), everyone else can paint a very similar picture when looking at their family and their friends.

If people took care of themselves, they wouldn't really even need healthcare.  Heck, healthcare would be free in a sense.  Heck, we could have a national "checkup/wellness" fund where no one would ever have to pay for these, the government can... through taxes, to cover these twice-a-year visits.  You could just buy a "catastrophic" insurance plan and it only cost you a quarter of what you're paying now... maybe less.

[MDC 5,877]

Everything you said is true and we also have a healthcare problem. When the average annual cost of HC is about a third of the average annual household income pretax, that’s a problem. Almost no one can afford HC that isn’t subsidized.

[TimmySmith 2,782]

5 minutes ago, MDC said:

Everything you said is true and we also have a healthcare problem. When the average annual cost of HC is about a third of the average annual household income pretax, that’s a problem. Almost no one can afford HC that isn’t subsidized.

IT IS SUBSIDIZED!  The middle class if paying for everyone.  Obammycare. 

[MDC 5,877]

2 minutes ago, TimmySmith said:

IT IS SUBSIDIZED!  The middle class if paying for everyone.  Obammycare. 

So what if it’s subsidized? It’s factored into your compensation package. It’s also crushing businesses, and they keep passing along a greater % of those costs each year. And it prevents workers from taking risks like going back to school or starting a business, because their HC is tied to employment. 

I think those are problems.

[Horseman 1,510]

30 minutes ago, MDC said:

Almost no one can afford HC that isn’t subsidized.

18 minutes ago, MDC said:

So what if it’s subsidized?

 

[TimmySmith 2,782]

23 minutes ago, MDC said:

So what if it’s subsidized? It’s factored into your compensation package. It’s also crushing businesses, and they keep passing along a greater % of those costs each year. And it prevents workers from taking risks like going back to school or starting a business, because their HC is tied to employment. 

I think those are problems.

The problems, IMO are the other direction.  As expected with the ACA, the Insurance companies have record profits because we are forced to pay whatever they ask. That is passed on by companies who can do it, the rest have dropped hours for employees, who are forced to fend for themselves for insurance, with lower pay.  All predicted when the ACA came to pass.  When the market doesn't dictate price, we all suffer. 

[MDC 5,877]

3 minutes ago, TimmySmith said:

The problems, IMO are the other direction.  As expected with the ACA, the Insurance companies have record profits because we are forced to pay whatever they ask. That is passed on by companies who can do it, the rest have dropped hours for employees, who are forced to fend for themselves for insurance, with lower pay.  All predicted when the ACA came to pass.  When the market doesn't dictate price, we all suffer. 

The ACA was crap legislation but HC costs were escalating at an unsustainable rate for years before it passed. It didn’t fix our HC system but it didn’t create the problems with it either.

[MTSkiBum 1,593]

1 hour ago, TBayXXXVII said:

  I'm 5'-10", 195 lbs with 12% body fat (on the high end of "athletic").  I have ZERO health problems.  I am on ZERO medications.  My levels for cholesterol, blood pressure, & sugar are perfect.  Outside of allergies, I am in perfect health.  My medical costs are virtually zero.  I don't pay anything aside from my co-pays for my checkups. 

 

I am 6'1 and 173 pounds(trying to get under 170), exercise regularly, eat healthy and I was on blood pressure medicine and prescription acid re-flux medicine before I turned 40. I also have had surgery to remove a tumor of the saliva glands in my 20's.

My sister runs marathons to win them, qualified for the boston marathon easily, etc and was on prescription thyroid medicine in her early 30's.

My dad still runs marathons in his 60's and had a heart attack in his late 50's.

Etc.

Regardless of how well you take care of yourself the healthcare system is needed.

 

The health care system in the US can be improved because nothing is perfect and everything can be improved. We should continually strive to improve everything in this country(not just healthcare).

 

 

[TBayXXXVII 2,106]

49 minutes ago, MDC said:

Everything you said is true and we also have a healthcare problem. When the average annual cost of HC is about a third of the average annual household income pretax, that’s a problem. Almost no one can afford HC that isn’t subsidized.

It's that high because people require the quantity of health care that they have through bad habits.  People who don't have bad habits don't need the health care coverage than people who do.  Because of people with bad habits, everyone is now required to have health care coverage.  That allows the insurance companies to name their price and we have to pay.  That's called bad government, not bad health care.  These are the same people whom you want to pay for the health coverage.  Yeah, good one.

[MDC 5,877]

Just now, TBayXXXVII said:

It's that high because people require the quantity of health care that they have through bad habits.  People who don't have bad habits don't need the health care coverage than people who do.  Because of people with bad habits, everyone is now required to have health care coverage.  That allows the insurance companies to name their price and we have to pay.  That's called bad government, not bad health care.  These are the same people whom you want to pay for the health coverage.  Yeah, good one.

Right, it’s just cause people have bad habits and not because 25-30% of our HC costs are administrative because medical providers need to hire an admin team to deal with a million different insurers.

Also school shootings happen because teachers don’t lock the doors right.  

[TBayXXXVII 2,106]

3 minutes ago, MTSkiBum said:

 

I am 6'1 and 173 pounds(trying to get under 170), exercise regularly, eat healthy and I was on blood pressure medicine and prescription acid re-flux medicine before I turned 40. I also have had surgery to remove a tumor of the saliva glands in my 20's.

My sister runs marathons to win them, qualified for the boston marathon easily, etc and was on prescription thyroid medicine in her early 30's.

My dad still runs marathons in his 60's and had a heart attack in his late 50's.

Etc.

Regardless of how well you take care of yourself the healthcare system is needed.

 

The health care system in the US can be improved because nothing is perfect and everything can be improved. We should continually strive to improve everything in this country(not just healthcare).

 

 

Like I said, there are people who lose in the genetic lottery.  It's handed down by the DNA. The thing is, DNA is not locked.  It can change.  Because you and members of your family are healthier, if you pass down those habits to your kids, the likelihood of your grandkids having these issues decrease.  Also, when you look at the your families medical situation... imagine what it would be like if you didn't take care of yourselves.  Also, imagine how much less you'd have to pay if hospitals and doctors offices weren't bombarded by unhealthy people who don't, can't, or won't, pay for their treatment.  Costs go up to people who do pay, because of people who didn't/don't.

To note, just because people run marathons, it doesn't mean they're actually healthy.

Yes, the health care system is needed, but it doesn't need to be improved like most think.  It would practically take care of itself if people took care of themselves better.  At that point, tweaking would only need to be done, not some massive governmental bill and national regulation.

Doctors are working late and long hours because of the amount of their presence is needed.  That costs money.  If their presence isn't needed as much, costs would go down.  Supply and demand.  There are a ton of doctors out there.  If people needed less from their doctors, doctors would reduce their prices because of competition.  Once you have the government footing the bill, costs go up because D.C. is covering the bill.

[TBayXXXVII 2,106]

2 minutes ago, MDC said:

Right, it’s just cause people have bad habits and not because 25-30% of our HC costs are administrative because medical providers need to hire an admin team to deal with a million different insurers.

Also school shootings happen because teachers don’t lock the doors right.  

If you don't have people who need medical treatment, you won't have all that administrative cost.  There will be less people needed and it would benefit the insurance companies to reduce their administrative costs because it'll increase profits.  This is common sense, not rocket science.

[MDC 5,877]

1 minute ago, TBayXXXVII said:

If you don't have people who need medical treatment, you won't have all that administrative cost.  There will be less people needed and it would benefit the insurance companies to reduce their administrative costs because it'll increase profits.  This is common sense, not rocket science.

Yes if everybody took great care of their health costs would go down. But they don’t, here or anywhere else on earth.

[Sean Mooney 1,184]

21 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Like I said, there are people who lose in the genetic lottery.  It's handed down by the DNA. The thing is, DNA is not locked.  It can change.  Because you and members of your family are healthier, if you pass down those habits to your kids, the likelihood of your grandkids having these issues decrease.  Also, when you look at the your families medical situation... imagine what it would be like if you didn't take care of yourselves.  Also, imagine how much less you'd have to pay if hospitals and doctors offices weren't bombarded by unhealthy people who don't, can't, or won't, pay for their treatment.  Costs go up to people who do pay, because of people who didn't/don't.

To note, just because people run marathons, it doesn't mean they're actually healthy.

Yes, the health care system is needed, but it doesn't need to be improved like most think.  It would practically take care of itself if people took care of themselves better.  At that point, tweaking would only need to be done, not some massive governmental bill and national regulation.

Doctors are working late and long hours because of the amount of their presence is needed.  That costs money.  If their presence isn't needed as much, costs would go down.  Supply and demand.  There are a ton of doctors out there.  If people needed less from their doctors, doctors would reduce their prices because of competition.  Once you have the government footing the bill, costs go up because D.C. is covering the bill.

I agree with your premise in this thread but I think some of your stuff here is a bit Pollyanna

[Baker Boy 1,477]

42 minutes ago, MDC said:

The ACA was crap legislation but HC costs were escalating at an unsustainable rate for years before it passed. It didn’t fix our HC system but it didn’t create the problems with it either.

Correct but it did make it much worse.

[Strike 3,949]

50 minutes ago, MDC said:

The ACA was crap legislation but HC costs were escalating at an unsustainable rate for years before it passed. It didn’t fix our HC system but it didn’t create the problems with it either.

Health care costs are still escalating at unsustainable rates.  The ACA did NOTHING to address health care costs.  Stop it. 

[Strike 3,949]

30 minutes ago, MDC said:

 

Also school shootings happen because teachers don’t lock the doors right.  

In the case of Uvalde it happened because the cops refused to do their job.

[MDC 5,877]

2 minutes ago, Strike said:

Health care costs are still escalating at unsustainable rates.  The ACA did NOTHING to address health care costs.  Stop it. 

I never said it did.  

[TBayXXXVII 2,106]

51 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

I agree with your premise in this thread but I think some of your stuff here is a bit Pollyanna

We're at a point where it would take a very long time to correct, but the longer it gets put off and the more that things (money/resources), get put in the wrong places, the worse everything will get.  I'm not saying that if everyone started eating and living healthier today, that in a couple years, we're all good.  I'm saying that if people start living better and passing that on to their kids, there's a decent chance that their kids could be in a good situation... and certainly their grandkids.  As time goes by and the unhealthy (and everyone really), pass on, the younger people are healthier.  The ones younger than them, even healthier.  In 3 to 4 generations from now, there's a chance that they could be saying... "could you believe that medication used to cost $200", and be laughing their azzes off.

By just complaining about health care and saying "the government should do this" or "the government should do that", all you're doing is making it easier for people to stay on their unhealthy course and just contributing to a plan that will never get better.  What people want to have happen is essentially... some one punches you in the arm over and over again.  A normal person would say "stop", and it happens.  A lazy person will buy a shirt to protect their arm.  Well, the person punching you just hits harder... so you buy a sweatshirt.  The result is that the other person just hits harder.

This is akin to, eating unhealthy and needing to pay a lot for doctor visits.  Well, instead of doing the smart thing like living better, you take the lazy way out and NOT go to the doctor.  Which in turn makes costs later down the road higher.  Again, instead of living healthier of biting the bullet and paying now, the lazy person just puts it off.  The net result is that you have costs you're forced to pay, or die, even though you can't afford it.  Giving people more government based / controlled health care, you're just giving them more of a reason to be slobs because when they go to the doctor, they don't have to pay... Uncle Sam will take care of it.  Though, they'll complain when they're paying 50% in federal income tax to cover those medical costs.  Oh, and when the next COVID comes, even more unhealthy people can die... because of ANOTHER reason, other than them being lazy, unhealthy, entitled fat focks.  It's always someone else's fault.

[TBayXXXVII 2,106]

1 hour ago, MDC said:

Yes if everybody took great care of their health costs would go down. But they don’t, here or anywhere else on earth.

Which is why it's not a health care issue, it's a personal issue.  You don't fix a problem by throwing resources at the result, you fix them by addressing the cause.  If you had to pay $5 a day to put air in your tire because it's leaking, would you continue to do it... then complain that the cost of air is so expensive, after you've paid $500?  Or would you address it by paying $50 for someone to patch it, but after spending $750, would you complain about a patched tire costing too much?  OR, would you just drop the $200 and get a brand new tire and be done with it?  I'm guessing you'd fix the problem at the source, would you not?

[TBayXXXVII 2,106]

1 hour ago, MDC said:

I never said it did.  

No, but you condone action which WON'T fix the problem, just ADD to it.  Much more intelligent approach.

[listen2me 23 1,534]

How much do junkies pay for Narcan these days?  How under this health care system can they possibly afford it?  Joe should send every home a Narcan kit or 2.   Junkie relief package.

[MDC 5,877]

11 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Which is why it's not a health care issue, it's a personal issue.  You don't fix a problem by throwing resources at the result, you fix them by addressing the cause.  If you had to pay $5 a day to put air in your tire because it's leaking, would you continue to do it... then complain that the cost of air is so expensive, after you've paid $500?  Or would you address it by paying $50 for someone to patch it, but after spending $750, would you complain about a patched tire costing too much?  OR, would you just drop the $200 and get a brand new tire and be done with it?  I'm guessing you'd fix the problem at the source, would you not?

I don’t agree with you that Americans being in bad health is the reason our HC costs are among the highest in the world. But even if they were, how do you fix that?

 

[MDC 5,877]

16 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

No, but you condone action which WON'T fix the problem, just ADD to it.  Much more intelligent approach.

I just said ACA was crap. Learn to read more better.

[Horseman 1,510]

9 minutes ago, MDC said:

Learn to read more better.

[iam90sbaby 2,120]

Universal healthcare as long as there are still private options is the way to go. I actually agree with MDC.

[TBayXXXVII 2,106]

3 minutes ago, iam90sbaby said:

Universal healthcare as long as there are still private options is the way to go. I actually agree with MDC.

As long as people who have private insurance don't have have to contribute to the Universal healthcare fund... and rates need to be locked in for periods of time.

[Strike 3,949]

1 minute ago, iam90sbaby said:

Universal healthcare as long as there are still private options is the way to go. I actually agree with MDC.

Besides a bunch of other issues, you can't have universal healthcare with an open border.  You simply can't have an entitlement society with an open border. 

[iam90sbaby 2,120]

1 minute ago, Strike said:

Besides a bunch of other issues, you can't have universal healthcare with an open border.  You simply can't have an entitlement society with an open border. 

You think I want an open border?

[MDC 5,877]

4 minutes ago, iam90sbaby said:

Universal healthcare as long as there are still private options is the way to go. I actually agree with MDC.

Single payer healthcare and everyone else can move to whatever private plan or cash practice they want. A third of our HC costs are administrative because the entire system is for profit and medical providers need to hire a billing department to deal with all the insurers. Consumers also have basically no purchasing power right now. 

Sure if everyone were fit that would be great but that’s not reality or the main reason HC is so expensive in the US.

[TBayXXXVII 2,106]

24 minutes ago, MDC said:

Single payer healthcare and everyone else can move to whatever private plan or cash practice they want. A third of our HC costs are administrative because the entire system is for profit and medical providers need to hire a billing department to deal with all the insurers. Consumers also have basically no purchasing power right now. 

Sure if everyone were fit that would be great but that’s not reality or the main reason HC is so expensive in the US.

LOL, creating more problems.  Liberalism at it's finest.  Let's keep doubling down and creating a bigger problem instead of actually trying to fix the problem.

[iam90sbaby 2,120]

38 minutes ago, MDC said:

Single payer healthcare and everyone else can move to whatever private plan or cash practice they want. A third of our HC costs are administrative because the entire system is for profit and medical providers need to hire a billing department to deal with all the insurers. Consumers also have basically no purchasing power right now. 

Sure if everyone were fit that would be great but that’s not reality or the main reason HC is so expensive in the US.

Agree completely. Let's do it.

[Strike 3,949]

1 hour ago, iam90sbaby said:

You think I want an open border?

Never said you did.  But, no one is closing the border so universal healthcare is a non starter to anyone thinking it through.

[MDC 5,877]

1 hour ago, TBayXXXVII said:

LOL, creating more problems.  Liberalism at it's finest.  Let's keep doubling down and creating a bigger problem instead of actually trying to fix the problem.

What’s your plan to fix the people out of shape problem? Get Richard Simmons back in syndication? 

[Bier Meister 1,512]

3 hours ago, iam90sbaby said:

Universal healthcare as long as there are still private options is the way to go. I actually agree with MDC.

[wiffleball 4,631]

Highest infant mortality rate of any of the industrialized nations.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,588]

Everyone should be required to have catastrophic health insurance. We should help out those who can’t afford the rest. If you can afford the rest and don’t want it then that’s on you. That’s my health plan.