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gcmmidwest

Quarterback Rankings

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12 on down seems awfully low to me 

#            
1 Josh Allen (BUF - QB)
 
1 1 1 1 view
2 Lamar Jackson (BAL - QB)
 
2 5 3 2 view
3 Patrick Mahomes II (KC - QB)
 
5 4 4 3 view
4 Justin Herbert (LAC - QB)
 
3 2 7 5 view
5 Jalen Hurts (PHI - QB)
 
6 7 2 6 view
6 Joe Burrow (CIN - QB)
 
4 3 8 10 view
7 Kyler Murray (ARI - QB)
 
7 10 6 4 view
8 Tom Brady (TB - QB)
 
8 8 10 7 view
9 Russell Wilson (DEN - QB)
 
10 6 9 11 view
10 Trey Lance (SF - QB)
 
9 14 5 9 view
11 Dak Prescott (DAL - QB)
 
13 9 13 8 view
12 Matthew Stafford (LAR - QB)
 
14 12 11 12 view
13 Kirk Cousins (MIN - QB)
 
11 11 12 16 view
14 Derek Carr (LV - QB)
 
12 13 18 14 view
15 Aaron Rodgers (GB - QB)
 
15 15 14 13 view
16 Trevor Lawrence (JAC - QB)
 
16

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Wait until double digit rounds take the best matchup week one, and stream, no need to stress about this.  

Thanks. 

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#16 will win your league for you.  Top 5 finish.  You’re welcome.

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After Lance, they're all just streaming options to me. Prescott losing his LT is big, while also having limited receiving options is a potential problem. Stafford's elbow having problems in preseason is really worrisome to me. I don't think is getting enough attention for those taking Kupp and Robinson. 

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5 minutes ago, Brutal Brutus said:

After Lance, they're all just streaming options to me. Prescott losing his LT is big, while also having limited receiving options is a potential problem. Stafford's elbow having problems in preseason is really worrisome to me. I don't think is getting enough attention for those taking Kupp and Robinson. 

Been posting about Stafford elbow issue this whole summer, and I agree, that’s also going to hurt Kupp/Robinson. 

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I like cousins to Jefferson 

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15 minutes ago, JagFan said:

#16 will win your league for you.  Top 5 finish.  You’re welcome.

Wishful thinking you know bookies make there money from people betting on there favorite teams 

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1 hour ago, JagFan said:

#16 will win your league for you.  Top 5 finish.  You’re welcome.

I dont know about top 5.  I question whether he has the talent at WR to rise that far, but top 10 is possible.

I do think hes the real deal, but he needs a stud WR to throw to.

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There are numerous recent examples of veteran QBs experiencing a rejuvenation when going to a new team.  Russ cooking in Denver seems like a decent bet. 

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10 minutes ago, Showboat said:

There are numerous recent examples of veteran QBs experiencing a rejuvenation when going to a new team.  Russ cooking in Denver seems like a decent bet. 

I can see it ,but wouldn't bet on it...if Stafford is available when things start thinning out I'm snatching him and not worried about no elbow I've seen him take shots that would send most people to a stretcher and a little tinnitus isn't gonna bother  him 

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2 hours ago, weepaws said:

Wait until double digit rounds take the best matchup week one, and stream, no need to stress about this.  

Thanks. 

We have to pay for transactions so there is a need to stress.

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2 hours ago, Ray_T said:

I dont know about top 5.  I question whether he has the talent at WR to rise that far, but top 10 is possible.

I do think hes the real deal, but he needs a stud WR to throw to.

I don’t think top ten is possible for Lawrence. 

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3 hours ago, weepaws said:

Wait until double digit rounds take the best matchup week one, and stream, no need to stress about this.  

Thanks. 

 

39 minutes ago, gitrdun said:

We have to pay for transactions so there is a need to stress.

Pay for them in all four of my leagues , but the amount won at the end of the season is much more.  

No need to stress.  

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1 hour ago, weepaws said:

I don’t think top ten is possible for Lawrence. 

I think hes the real deal.

on a team that had all sorts of distractions, and a crappy coach and not much in the way of WR he still threw for 3600 yards as a rookie.   

I think under the circumstances thats pretty good.

The WR are better.  not a lot better but still better and I have to believe the coaching is better(does it actually get worse than what he had last year?) and the gong show that was the organization will be more stable and that will all add up to a better year for him.

I'm not predicting top 10 but its at the upper end of the range of possible values for him.    more likely hes in the top half of all starters which would make him top 16 but the kid has considerable upside.

In my opinion the best hes likely to do is top 10.  thus the comment Top 10 is possible.    doesnt mean it is likely.  and for that to happen everything would need to go right for him.

but I would rank him anywhere in the 12 to 16 range for most formats in redraft.   That is probably where he ends up ---- so top end backup in most leagues.   Streaming option.

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How are they better at wr? 

Lawrence might be the real deal, but that still doesn’t make him a top ten. 

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4 minutes ago, weepaws said:

How are they better at wr? 

 

im not interested in Lawrence but Kirk moves marvin Jones to the #2 spot and a healthy Etienne.... its a better group of receiving weapons for sure

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4 hours ago, gcmmidwest said:

I can see it ,but wouldn't bet on it...if Stafford is available when things start thinning out I'm snatching him and not worried about no elbow I've seen him take shots that would send most people to a stretcher and a little tinnitus isn't gonna bother  him 

Agree, always plays hurt.

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16 minutes ago, WhiteWonder said:

im not interested in Lawrence but Kirk moves marvin Jones to the #2 spot and a healthy Etienne.... its a better group of receiving weapons for sure

Etienne makes the group better, but he’s not a wr , so I still don’t see the upgrade a the wr slot.  

I don’t see the upside Kirk to M Jones, they produce about the same stats last season. I’m not sold.  

Thanks. 

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I think Trevor Lawrence is a bust just like I said before the start of last season.

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39 minutes ago, weepaws said:

Etienne makes the group better, but he’s not a wr , so I still don’t see the upgrade a the wr slot.  

I don’t see the upside Kirk to M Jones, they produce about the same stats last season. I’m not sold.  

Thanks. 

I’m not trying to sell you on anything. Just stating the facts. It’s a better WR tandem, even if they overpaid for Kirk. It’s still a better WR tandem and better receiving weapons overall. 

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It’s more likely that I’m wrong vs right…but at least I have something to hope for as a fan and that’s been a long time coming for any Jag fan.  I’m definitely going to draft his as my backup QB next week.

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13 hours ago, gcmmidwest said:

I can see it ,but wouldn't bet on it...if Stafford is available when things start thinning out I'm snatching him and not worried about no elbow I've seen him take shots that would send most people to a stretcher and a little tinnitus isn't gonna bother  him 

is not a hearing problem. its his elbow.

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10 hours ago, weepaws said:

How are they better at wr? 

Lawrence might be the real deal, but that still doesn’t make him a top ten. 

2021- Jones Jr, Chark, Shenault, Tavon Austin, Jamal Agnew

2022- Kirk, Jones Jr, Zay Jones, Tim Jones, Jamal Agnew

 

Kirk is much better than where Chark was anymore. Zay Jones is a better version of Tavon Austin. Jones/Agnew is a wash against Shenault/Agnew.

So they are better. 

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11 hours ago, Gepetto said:

I think Trevor Lawrence is a bust just like I said before the start of last season.

I agree.  I thought I was on an island with this.  I mean, you'd think that if a team truly believed in their QB, they'd give him weapons.  With all the free agent movement and trading going on, there were plenty of opportunities for them to massively upgrade the WR position, and the only thing they did was massively overpay a mediocre guy.  On top of that, they had 2 firsts and 2 thirds in the draft that was very deep at WR and they took none.  I get that the team has a lot of holes, but 4 picks in the top 70 and didn't draft a WR?  They didn't even draft a WR at all.  I'm thinking that Pederson saw the film on Lawrence last year and was skeptical about him and the approach was to fix the defense and then invest in the offence after Lawrence proves he doesn't stink.

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2 hours ago, Sean Mooney said:

2021- Jones Jr, Chark, Shenault, Tavon Austin, Jamal Agnew

2022- Kirk, Jones Jr, Zay Jones, Tim Jones, Jamal Agnew

 

Kirk is much better than where Chark was anymore. Zay Jones is a better version of Tavon Austin. Jones/Agnew is a wash against Shenault/Agnew.

So they are better. 

They replaced Chark, Shenault, and Austin with Kirk, Zay, and Tim.  Not really sure it's "better".  Kirk is a WR3 at best and so is Chark.  Zay is a 4/5... so is Shenault.  If you want to argue that Tim Jones is an upgrade over Austin, uh, ok.  We're talking about guys who won't really participate, so I'll give you that one.  Is it worse?  Probably not, I just don't see them as better.  I see it as exchanging a 20 for 4 5's.

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23 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

I'm thinking that Pederson saw the film on Lawrence last year and was skeptical about him 

So he took a job of which the success of, is based primarily on the viability of the QB, even though he is skeptical of said QB? That’s the theory you posit? C’mon man, absurd. Lawrence might stink, he might be great, but no way Pederson takes that job if he thinks it might be the former… smh…

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17 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

They replaced Chark, Shenault, and Austin with Kirk, Zay, and Tim.  Not really sure it's "better".  Kirk is a WR3 at best and so is Chark.  Zay is a 4/5... so is Shenault.  If you want to argue that Tim Jones is an upgrade over Austin, uh, ok.  We're talking about guys who won't really participate, so I'll give you that one.  Is it worse?  Probably not, I just don't see them as better.  I see it as exchanging a 20 for 4 5's.

THe biggest issue with Kirk is going to be he is probably a #2 receiver being paid like a #1. He is also primarily a slot guy to this point and if they are going to ask him to play outside I'm not 100% how that will work. But Chark had 1 monster season but overall Kirk's numbers are better

Chark career- 43 games (40 starting) 265 targets, 147 receptions, 2042 yards and 15 touchdowns

Kirk career- 56 games (41 starting), 358 targets, 236 receptions, 2902 yards, and 17 touchdowns

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17 hours ago, gcmmidwest said:

if Stafford is available when things start thinning out I'm snatching him and not worried about no elbow I've seen him take shots that would send most people to a stretcher and a little tinnitus isn't gonna bother  him 

Week 1...  Stafford zinging the ball like the old days. Only p*ssies feel tendinitis pain!

Week 14...  ?    :huh:

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17 hours ago, gcmmidwest said:

I can see it ,but wouldn't bet on it...if Stafford is available when things start thinning out I'm snatching him and not worried about no elbow I've seen him take shots that would send most people to a stretcher and a little tinnitus isn't gonna bother  him 

I think I’m dumber having read this.  We need a new rule on this message board that you at least have to have passed 6th grade to post.

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23 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

THe biggest issue with Kirk is going to be he is probably a #2 receiver being paid like a #1. He is also primarily a slot guy to this point and if they are going to ask him to play outside I'm not 100% how that will work. But Chark had 1 monster season but overall Kirk's numbers are better

Chark career- 43 games (40 starting) 265 targets, 147 receptions, 2042 yards and 15 touchdowns

Kirk career- 56 games (41 starting), 358 targets, 236 receptions, 2902 yards, and 17 touchdowns

Chark was forced to be the WR1 on a team with Blake Bortles, Cody Kessler, Gardner Minshew and Mike Glennon throwing to him for 39 of those games.

Christian Kirk was the #3 WR with a #1 and #2 on the field with Kyler Murray throwing him the ball the last 3 years.

If Kirk didn't have better numbers, then he wouldn't even belong in the league, LOL

 

If I were a gambling man, I'd bet Chark has a better season than Kirk.  Basically, their roles will be reversed.  Chark is going to a team with many receiving options to buffer him, in Amon-Ra, Hock, Swift, and to a lesser extent, Reynolds... who oddly looked better in 7 games in Detroit than anywhere prior.  Kirk is going to be the #1, #2, and #3 option in Jacksonville.  I'd expect teams to game plan to take him out (which won't be all that hard), and force Lawrence to beat you by throwing to someone else.

 

This just reminds me of the Bucs signing Alvin Harper.  I don't think it ends well.

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6 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Chark was forced to be the WR1 on a team with Blake Bortles, Cody Kessler, Gardner Minshew and Mike Glennon throwing to him for 39 of those games.

Christian Kirk was the #3 WR with a #1 and #2 on the field with Kyler Murray throwing him the ball the last 3 years.

If Kirk didn't have better numbers, then he wouldn't even belong in the league, LOL

 

If I were a gambling man, I'd bet Chark has a better season than Kirk.  Basically, their roles will be reversed.  Chark is going to a team with many receiving options to buffer him, in Amon-Ra, Hock, Swift, and to a lesser extent, Reynolds... who oddly looked better in 7 games in Detroit than anywhere prior.  Kirk is going to be the #1, #2, and #3 option in Jacksonville.  I'd expect teams to game plan to take him out (which won't be all that hard), and force Lawrence to beat you by throwing to someone else.

 

This just reminds me of the Bucs signing Alvin Harper.  I don't think it ends well.

Kirk has Jones Jr. (who had good chemistry with Lawrence), Etienne (Lawrence's college teammate), Zay Jones, Engram and a far better NFL offensive coach in Doug Pederson with Press Taylor and Jim Bob Cooter helping put together the offense and passing game. 

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14 minutes ago, JagFan said:

I think I’m dumber having read this.  We need a new rule on this message board that you at least have to have passed 6th grade to post.

One thing I know for sure is I'm much smarter then you 

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8 minutes ago, gcmmidwest said:

One thing I know for sure is I'm much smarter then you 

You misspelled than…good job Einstein!

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29 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

Kirk has Jones Jr. (who had good chemistry with Lawrence), Etienne (Lawrence's college teammate), Zay Jones, Engram and a far better NFL offensive coach in Doug Pederson with Press Taylor and Jim Bob Cooter helping put together the offense and passing game. 

Not a group that would scare anyone.  Jones Jr is a nice compliment, not a guy who forces you to cover him.  Etienne hasn't played a snap in the league yet.  Zay Jones and Engram are terrible.

Doug Pederson's offense was good 1 year, when Wentz played at an MVP level.  His offense was never good after that and after Reich left.  Pederson hasn't proven anything after that.  On top of that, the year they won the Super Bowl, the #1 pass catcher was Ertz.  Agholor & Jeffery with 62/768/8 & 57/789/9 respectively.  Those are ok numbers considering that 3 guys put up similar numbers.  So, all you need is Lawrence, to do is have an MVP season and maybe Kirk can have a fantasy WR3 season.

Everyone on that teams have something to prove.  I'm not putting blind trust in any of them, except Jones.  They're all on my DND list, at their current ADP's.  I'd take Kirk as my WR5 and Etienne as my RB4  I'm fine with Jones as my WR4 because he does that every year. Lawrence, Engram, and Zay, I wouldn't even draft.

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5 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Not a group that would scare anyone.  Jones Jr is a nice compliment, not a guy who forces you to cover him.  Etienne hasn't played a snap in the league yet.  Zay Jones and Engram are terrible.

Doug Pederson's offense was good 1 year, when Wentz played at an MVP level.  His offense was never good after that and after Reich left.  Pederson hasn't proven anything after that.  On top of that, the year they won the Super Bowl, the #1 pass catcher was Ertz.  Agholor & Jeffery with 62/768/8 & 57/789/9 respectively.  Those are ok numbers considering that 3 guys put up similar numbers.  So, all you need is Lawrence, to do is have an MVP season and maybe Kirk can have a fantasy WR3 season.

Everyone on that teams have something to prove.  I'm not putting blind trust in any of them, except Jones.  They're all on my DND list, at their current ADP's.  I'd take Kirk as my WR5 and Etienne as my RB4  I'm fine with Jones as my WR4 because he does that every year. Lawrence, Engram, and Zay, I wouldn't even draft.

Well "I wouldn't draft them" is getting into fantasy football analysis and not real world analysis and that is different.

Pederson's 1 year is still better than Urban or Dan Campbell's 0 years. 

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7 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Not a group that would scare anyone.  Jones Jr is a nice compliment, not a guy who forces you to cover him.  Etienne hasn't played a snap in the league yet.  Zay Jones and Engram are terrible.

Doug Pederson's offense was good 1 year, when Wentz played at an MVP level.  His offense was never good after that and after Reich left.  Pederson hasn't proven anything after that.  On top of that, the year they won the Super Bowl, the #1 pass catcher was Ertz.  Agholor & Jeffery with 62/768/8 & 57/789/9 respectively.  Those are ok numbers considering that 3 guys put up similar numbers.  So, all you need is Lawrence, to do is have an MVP season and maybe Kirk can have a fantasy WR3 season.

Everyone on that teams have something to prove.  I'm not putting blind trust in any of them, except Jones.  They're all on my DND list, at their current ADP's.  I'd take Kirk as my WR5 and Etienne as my RB4  I'm fine with Jones as my WR4 because he does that every year. Lawrence, Engram, and Zay, I wouldn't even draft.

I actually agree with this.  I didn’t think it was much of an accomplishment when Philly won that Super Bowl.  They were very fortunate to face the most overrated QB in NFL history.  I’m shocked that guy hasn’t changed his last name to Manning considering two Mannings have owned him his entire career.

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4 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

Well "I wouldn't draft them" is getting into fantasy football analysis and not real world analysis and that is different.

Pederson's 1 year is still better than Urban or Dan Campbell's 0 years. 

Aren't we talking about fantasy football?

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3 minutes ago, JagFan said:

I actually agree with this.  I didn’t think it was much of an accomplishment when Philly won that Super Bowl.  They were very fortunate to face the most overrated QB in NFL history.  I’m shocked that guy hasn’t changed his last name to Manning considering two Mannings have owned him his entire career.

🤣

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6 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Aren't we talking about fantasy football?

I misstated. So let me correct- I'm not saying I would draft those guys necessarily high. I ended up with Christian Kirk in one draft as my WR 2 and don't love it but I do think he is markedly better than DJ Chark. Additionally, there are weapons there in Jacksonville- the cupboard is not bare. 

I do not think Lawrence is a top 5 QB in fantasy but can easily see him finding his way into that 8-10 range points wise which makes him a definitive starter for a fantasy team. He has a better system down there (one that has clearly had success in the NFL) and has a better coaching staff surrounding him.

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10 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

I misstated. So let me correct- I'm not saying I would draft those guys necessarily high. I ended up with Christian Kirk in one draft as my WR 2 and don't love it but I do think he is markedly better than DJ Chark. Additionally, there are weapons there in Jacksonville- the cupboard is not bare. 

I do not think Lawrence is a top 5 QB in fantasy but can easily see him finding his way into that 8-10 range points wise which makes him a definitive starter for a fantasy team. He has a better system down there (one that has clearly had success in the NFL) and has a better coaching staff surrounding him.

Fair.  I disagree, but it's reasonable.

I think Chark and Kirk are the same guy, one just got fed up with playing with crappy QB's while the other was able to play opposite great WR's and had a good QB.  Marvin Jones is exactly who he is.  I'd expect the same numbers from him regardless of what team he's on or what QB is throwing to him.  Outside of that, I think the Jags cupboard is very bare.  Zay Jones is garbage.  Engram is garbage.  Tim Jones spent last year on the practice squad.  Agnew is a return guy.  So, 5 WR's on their roster and only 2 are even "decent".  That's very bare to me.

I think Lawrence is a bust and I'd be shocked if he even finished in the top 20 in fantasy.  I think this year may be similar to last year.  The TD/Int numbers may be closer... I'll say 15 TD's/14 Int's... so a slight improvement.  If he's a starter in the NFL past 2023, that teams' GM should be fired.

I was very unimpressed with Pederson post 2017.  His team was poorly coached, poorly managed, and his game day coaching was sub par.

 

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