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MTSkiBum

Opec+ to cut 10% of oil production

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Thumbs down....

Haven't seen a real good answer on this- but it seems like they had made a push to up their production per day months ago but countries were struggling to reach those numbers already. So not sure how the overall of this plays out as effecting the output in the long run.

Saw some economists say- oil could jump back to 120 a barrel. Saw some others say it will most likely only be negligible. Will be interesting to see how the price is influenced since the price of crude did start ticking upward this week again in preparation of this. 

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Got $60,000+ and a charger installed in you apartment random parking space? Go EV. 

It's easy. And good luck with your new car. Does your current mechanic know how to do diagnostics on EVs? Else you will have to pay dealership prices to fix your car when you have troubles. 

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7 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

So people who are mechanics won't learn to fix EV's?

That is a dumb argument. 

They would learn, but nobody wants EVs. They are not ready, both from an infrastructure and a technology point of view in their own right. 

Anyone who doesn't work as a mechanic for a EV dealership would be an idiot to waste their time on anything but ICE mechanics. 

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4 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

So people who are mechanics won't learn to fix EV's?

That is a dumb argument. 

I would bet that transition won't go very smooth.  That would be a question for Sux.   Some, very good mechanics who have been in business for a while grumble about certain makes/models.  Let alone EVs.  

It will certainly at very least cause a headache for many people.  There no doubt will be some shortage of mechanics who know their way around EVs.  There are enough crap mechanics as is who have worked on gas vehicles their whole life and still suck.  

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2 minutes ago, listen2me 23 said:

I would bet that transition won't go very smooth.  That would be a question for Sux.   Some, very good mechanics who have been in business for a while grumble about certain makes/models.  Let alone EVs.  

It will certainly at very least cause a headache for many people.  There no doubt will be some shortage of mechanics who know their way around EVs.  There are enough crap mechanics as is who have worked on gas vehicles their whole life and still suck.  

I have a mechanic I have been going to for years. The guy is straight up honest as can be. He has a thriving business and doesn't have grandiose ideas of growing into multiple shops. He told me one is enough for him. I have had plenty of times we just sit at his desk and talk about things all things auto. Prices fixes, labor, cars in general, car issues etc, and I once asked him if he ever looked into being able to work on EVs, and he basically just no, never really looked into it as he enough business as it is and it probably won't go anywhere in his lifetime. 

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20 minutes ago, listen2me 23 said:

I would bet that transition won't go very smooth.  That would be a question for Sux.   Some, very good mechanics who have been in business for a while grumble about certain makes/models.  Let alone EVs.  

It will certainly at very least cause a headache for many people.  There no doubt will be some shortage of mechanics who know their way around EVs.  There are enough crap mechanics as is who have worked on gas vehicles their whole life and still suck.  

But I mean- there are those who would do it because it means more business, and they are learning new things at their craft.

Really- any profession should be about learning new things always. 

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15 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

But I mean- there are those who would do it because it means more business, and they are learning new things at their craft.

Really- any profession should be about learning new things always. 

What is the investment in learning this new craft, including taking time away from actually making money?

And how much space is needed to be added to their shop to accommodate the diagnostics machines and what have you that is needed to work on these EVs? 

I live in a rather populated area and my mechanic has a garage with 3 bays and limited parking. If he wanted to learn how to fix EVs, which would include his additional mechanics learning it as well, what is that cost and would he have to buy a new property to accommodate another bay and buy the machinery needed? 

Who the fock is going out and buying EVs? I never see any around the area where I live.  

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17 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

But I mean- there are those who would do it because it means more business, and they are learning new things at their craft.

Really- any profession should be about learning new things always. 

Right.  Some will.  Do you think the older mechanics are going to get excited?  No.  

A lot will matter on timing and how fast this all moves.   If this moves at a snails pace then most established mechanics who are comfortable with business as is will just say they have enough gas powered vehicle business still and will ride that till retirement.   If it happens faster than expected there is still going to be a sizable portion (old, almost retired, stubborn, lazy, old dog no new tricks, ect) that will just refuse to relearn anything.    Change careers, just refuse and try to get by, learn it half ass and people with an EV pile into experienced EV mechanics.  

Either way there will be some hangup with EVs and mechanics.  How much I am not sure.  But you already hear people complain about it being hard to find a good fair mechanic.  I have seen threads here at the GC on the subject a few times.  

Logic says all that aside.   Cost to fix EVs is going to be pricier than fixing traditional cars has been.  At least for quite some time.  

I could be wrong.  Would like to hear what Sux has to say.  But to me it just seems logical that there will be at least some issues here.  

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Just now, craftsman said:

What is the investment in learning this new craft, including taking time away from actually making money?

And how much space is needed to be added to their shop to accommodate the diagnostics machines and what have you that is needed to work on these EVs? 

I live in a rather populated area and my mechanic has a garage with 3 bays and limited parking. If he wanted to learn how to fix EVs, which would include his additional mechanics learning it as well, what is that cost and would he have to buy a new property to accommodate another bay and buy the machinery needed? 

Who the fock is going out and buying EVs? I never see any around the area where I live.  

I could see some decently sized shops hire like 1 or 2 guys that are experienced in EVs while retaining regular mechanics for regular vehicles.   

My mechanic works by himself and he is great.  It sucks he is close to retiring and moving down south.  

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Obviously if EV's gain more traction and market share there will be a trickle down which will involve kids in high school learning EV stuff in trade schools. Places like Lincoln Tech and other automotive training centers will offer courses on working on it. Some places that have the ability will add EV techs and space. They won't have to necessarily add more building area but more equipment which will increase some overhead. Some people will choose to not learn and they will survive on the business they currently have. 

It's not like it is just going to effect the people there right now. Lots of people will get involved on working on these cars. 

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Meanwhile we are depleting our own reserves, and that ends soon (day after the election :lol: ). Gas is going back up, bigly.  Merry Christmas!

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2 minutes ago, listen2me 23 said:

I could see some decently sized shops hire like 1 or 2 guys that are experienced in EVs while retaining regular mechanics for regular vehicles.   

My mechanic works by himself and he is great.  It sucks he is close to retiring and moving down south.  

The guy I go to is in his upper 40s or so. He seems to have zero interest in EVs. I don't blame him. And just as an example, I had to have something fixed on my car a few years back and what the dealer said it would cost to fix was like $4000 more than what my current mechanic fixed it for. 

What will happen in the future is, people who buy EVs will be dependent on dealer mechanics for a long while. The investment in one or more of those vehicles will never be actualized in my future. And I'm not that old. 

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3 minutes ago, KSB2424 said:

Energy Independence.  Ahhh, the good old days.  

Bring Trump back, we'll see it again. Easily. 

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7 minutes ago, listen2me 23 said:

Right.  Some will.  Do you think the older mechanics are going to get excited?  No.  

A lot will matter on timing and how fast this all moves.   If this moves at a snails pace then most established mechanics who are comfortable with business as is will just say they have enough gas powered vehicle business still and will ride that till retirement.   If it happens faster than expected there is still going to be a sizable portion (old, almost retired, stubborn, lazy, old dog no new tricks, ect) that will just refuse to relearn anything.    Change careers, just refuse and try to get by, learn it half ass and people with an EV pile into experienced EV mechanics.  

Either way there will be some hangup with EVs and mechanics.  How much I am not sure.  But you already hear people complain about it being hard to find a good fair mechanic.  I have seen threads here at the GC on the subject a few times.  

Logic says all that aside.   Cost to fix EVs is going to be pricier than fixing traditional cars has been.  At least for quite some time.  

I could be wrong.  Would like to hear what Sux has to say.  But to me it just seems logical that there will be at least some issues here.  

It is much easier to work on an electric car, replace the entire engine and transmission with a couple motors.

Hybrids have been out for decades and the only difference is no engine, no transmission, a bigger motor, and more batteries. 

 

I am not sure how this thread got hijacked so fast......

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Saudis publicly kicked biden in the nuts drove them up into his throat and made him suck on his balls.

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2 minutes ago, Mungwater said:

Oil impacts much much more than just gas prices

Ain't that the truth. Much much much much more.  

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4 minutes ago, Mungwater said:

Oil impacts much much more than just gas prices

Pretty much everything goes up.  The food you eat, the clothes you wear were more than likely trucked in to the retail store as the final supply chain stop.  That cost is passed down. 

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11 minutes ago, MTSkiBum said:

It is much easier to work on an electric car, replace the entire engine and transmission with a couple motors.

Hybrids have been out for decades and the only difference is no engine, no transmission, a bigger motor, and more batteries. 

 

I am not sure how this thread got hijacked so fast......

At least it is a halfway decent discussion and not dome roundabout for hours on typos and who makes more money.

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18 minutes ago, MTSkiBum said:

It is much easier to work on an electric car, replace the entire engine and transmission with a couple motors.

Hybrids have been out for decades and the only difference is no engine, no transmission, a bigger motor, and more batteries. 

 

I am not sure how this thread got hijacked so fast......

It's much more difficult to hand out the bill for a new battery or any other fixes these cars will need. These vehicles are not ready for prime time. It's proven. 

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With a real President in real times, this is where we up production.  No way the Saudis pull this against anyone but a decrepit old idiot.

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34 minutes ago, KSB2424 said:

Energy Independence.  Ahhh, the good old days.  

:mad:  This sucks.

Actually, the old days were kissing OPEC's ass. Then for a brief moment, maybe a decade we finally had legit energy independence. Until Biden* was installed and now we're back to relying on and kissing OPEC's ass again for no good reason.

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27 minutes ago, KSB2424 said:

Pretty much everything goes up.  The food you eat, the clothes you wear were more than likely trucked in to the retail store as the final supply chain stop.  That cost is passed down. 

This pretty much kills all those nonsense "inflation cutting" handouts.  Only dumb libs don't know the world's economy is tied to the output of oil. 

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15 minutes ago, TimmySmith said:

With a real President in real times, this is where we up production.  No way the Saudis pull this against anyone but a decrepit old idiot.

 

10 minutes ago, Voltaire said:

:mad:  This sucks.

Actually, the old days were kissing OPEC's ass. Then for a brief moment, maybe a decade we finally had legit energy independence. Until Biden* was installed and now we're back to relying on and kissing OPEC's ass again for no good reason.

 

Point 1:

It would not be smart to ramp up oil production right now, the reason that Opec+ is cutting oil is because of the demand destruction going on in the global economy. We are going to be in a depression shortly and it would not make sense to increase oil production right before the carpet is pulled out from under us.

Point 2:

Even if we wanted to increase oil production we cannot. There is not enough personnel and equipment to ramp up drilling.

 

https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/US-Shale-Wont-Fill-Gap-If-OPEC-Cuts-Oil-Production.html

“Nothing is going to ramp up fast,” Andy Hendricks, CEO of driller Patterson-UTI, told Reuters. Most companies have 2023 drilling plans nearly set in stone, inflation has increased equipment costs, and labor has grown increasingly difficult to find.

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43 minutes ago, MTSkiBum said:

It is much easier to work on an electric car, replace the entire engine and transmission with a couple motors.

Hybrids have been out for decades and the only difference is no engine, no transmission, a bigger motor, and more batteries. 

 

I am not sure how this thread got hijacked so fast......

I'm no expert, but why is the transmission different among gas/hybrid/EV?  Seems to me it would provide the same basic function in all examples.  :dunno: 

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3 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

I'm no expert, but why is the transmission different among gas/hybrid/EV?  Seems to me it would provide the same basic function in all examples.  :dunno: 

There is only a single EV with a transmission and that is in a european supercar IIRC. No other electric car has a transmission because it can produce enough power at all RPM ranges. They just direct drive the motor into the wheels.

 

 

edit:

Just a porsche, not a supercar.

https://www.wired.com/story/electric-car-two-speed-transmission-gearbox/

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4 minutes ago, MTSkiBum said:

 

 

Point 1:

It would not be smart to ramp up oil production right now, the reason that Opec+ is cutting oil is because of the demand destruction going on in the global economy. We are going to be in a depression shortly and it would not make sense to increase oil production right before the carpet is pulled out from under us.

Point 2:

Even if we wanted to increase oil production we cannot. There is not enough personnel and equipment to ramp up drilling.

 

https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/US-Shale-Wont-Fill-Gap-If-OPEC-Cuts-Oil-Production.html

“Nothing is going to ramp up fast,” Andy Hendricks, CEO of driller Patterson-UTI, told Reuters. Most companies have 2023 drilling plans nearly set in stone, inflation has increased equipment costs, and labor has grown increasingly difficult to find.

Yeah, nothing is going to ramp up fast, especially if we don't ramp up at all. 

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4 minutes ago, MTSkiBum said:

There is only a single EV with a transmission and that is in a european supercar IIRC. No other electric car has a transmission because it can produce enough power at all RPM ranges. They just direct drive the motor into the wheels.

 

 

edit:

Just a porsche, not a supercar.

https://www.wired.com/story/electric-car-two-speed-transmission-gearbox/

Interesting, thanks.  It still seems to me that the physics of torque would provide some efficiencies/battery life at different speeds (more than the 5% listed in your article).

 

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This seems to me like nearly an act of war. I am not suggesting we should respond militarily, but whatever ability we have to inflict some pain or discomfort upon them should be investigated.

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1 hour ago, lod001 said:

Saudis publicly kicked AMERICA in the nuts drove them up into its throat and made it suck on their balls.

Fixed.

And you are celebrating this… why? :wacko:

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2 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

Fixed.

And you are celebrating this… why? :wacko:

So you actually changed what he posted and are now asking him if he is celebrating it? 

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5 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

This seems to me like nearly an act of war. I am not suggesting we should respond militarily, but whatever ability we have to inflict some pain or discomfort upon them should be investigated.

Just like the Biden administration nearly committed an act of war on the American people.

I would think the left would be celebrating this! MMGW

if they were smart they would do this in the name of climate change.

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1 hour ago, MTSkiBum said:

Point 1:

It would not be smart to ramp up oil production right now, the reason that Opec+ is cutting oil is because of the demand destruction going on in the global economy. We are going to be in a depression shortly and it would not make sense to increase oil production right before the carpet is pulled out from under us.

Point 2:

Even if we wanted to increase oil production we cannot. There is not enough personnel and equipment to ramp up drilling.

 

https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/US-Shale-Wont-Fill-Gap-If-OPEC-Cuts-Oil-Production.html

“Nothing is going to ramp up fast,” Andy Hendricks, CEO of driller Patterson-UTI, told Reuters. Most companies have 2023 drilling plans nearly set in stone, inflation has increased equipment costs, and labor has grown increasingly difficult to find.

I wouldn't expect we ramp it up to 100% tomorrow.  But we need to ramp it up.  Amazing how fast we can do things when they are real. 

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This cannot be an easy decision for OPEC.

On the one hand they do not want Democrats and their hate for oil in power, and by cutting production this hurts the Dems disproportionately

They DO NOT want the Republicans in power with their tilt toward energy independence.

This move likely is feeding some more immediate need. And they can unwind it later before the next presidential election so as to avoid a Trump-ish admin that will fix what the liberals have focked up

 

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