DeSantis and his stupid laws

[Hardcore troubadour 12,588]

What parts that were objected to have to deal with AA history? Was slavery and Jim Crow not allowed? The Underground Railroad? The Tuskegee experiments? MLK? I’ll hang up and listen. 

[Fnord 1,124]

1 hour ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

What parts that were objected to have to deal with AA history? Was slavery and Jim Crow not allowed? The Underground Railroad? The Tuskegee experiments? MLK? I’ll hang up and listen. 

Dude, we all know the only person you listen to is Tucker. Don't pretend otherwise. 

[Fnord 1,124]

1 hour ago, RogerDodger said:

 

Catch your ghost Squiz?  You were trying to make some sort of point here, or did you finally figure out what a moron you are?

Hey genius, this isn't Squistion from FBG. It's someone that appropriated the handle over here.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,588]

2 minutes ago, Fnord said:

Dude, we all know the only person you listen to is Tucker. Don't pretend otherwise. 

Down goes another. 

[Fnord 1,124]

5 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Down goes another. 

I presume you're talking about yourself in relation to Tucker's (no doubt microscopic) knob. With your giant mouth that must be awfully unfulfilling for both of you, but what you do in your personal life is none of my business. Unlike you, I don't take prejudicial stands against what other people decide to do with their own bodies. 

[Hardcore troubadour 12,588]

2 minutes ago, Fnord said:

I presume you're talking about yourself in relation to Tucker's (no doubt microscopic) knob. With your giant mouth that must be awfully unfulfilling for both of you, but what you do in your personal life is none of my business. Unlike you, I don't take prejudicial stands against what other people decide to do with their own bodies. 

Cool. Now, what part of AA history is being objected to? 

[RogerDodger 797]

15 minutes ago, Fnord said:

Hey genius, this isn't Squistion from FBG. It's someone that appropriated the handle over here.

Impressive, posting styles and intelligence match to a T.  So much so it doesn't really matter.

[jerryskids 5,169]

2 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

And you can tell how disingenuous the Florida Department of Education is being when they write “we look forward to the elimination of CRT from the course”. Critical Race Theory is so undefined by its critics that nearly ANY discussion of Black history and culture can be used as an example of it. Because CRT is essentially a focus on American history from a Black perspective. Given this definition how can a Black studies course be taught without Black perspectives? It can’t. Thus, by calling for the elimination of CRT, the effect is to ban the course. Which was the goal in the first place. 

 

2 hours ago, squistion said:

No, it can't and seems like something out of The Onion. 

True, Tim's definition of CRT seems like something out of the Onion.  Here is an actual definition:

Quote

critical race theory

 

noun

 

1. a set of ideas holding that racial bias is inherent in many parts of western society, especially in its legal and social institutions, on the basis of their having been primarily designed for and implemented by white people.

 

[squistion 878]

2 hours ago, Fnord said:

Hey genius, this isn't Squistion from FBG. It's someone that appropriated the handle over here.

It isn't? 

[Voltaire 4,554]

4 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

And you can tell how disingenuous the Florida Department of Education is being when they write “we look forward to the elimination of CRT from the course”. Critical Race Theory is so undefined by its critics that nearly ANY discussion of Black history and culture can be used as an example of it. Because CRT is essentially a focus on American history from a Black perspective. Given this definition how can a Black studies course be taught without Black perspectives? It can’t. Thus, by calling for the elimination of CRT, the effect is to ban the course. Which was the goal in the first place. 

Critical race theory is not a focus on American history from a black perspective. It is a more correctly defined as a belief that racism is baked into the American system; a situation which hasn't been true for 55 years, although you have disagreed. 

[The Real timschochet 2,872]

2 hours ago, Voltaire said:

Critical race theory is not a focus on American history from a black perspective. It is a more correctly defined as a belief that racism is baked into the American system; a situation which hasn't been true for 55 years, although you have disagreed. 

Well now we get to the heart of our disagreement: I believe your first and second sentences are, essentially, the same thing. There can be no teaching of American history from a black perspective without acknowledging that racism is baked into the American system. Furthermore your last point I don’t simply disagree with; I hold that it’s demonstrably, objectively untrue. 

[RLLD 3,455]

1 minute ago, The Real timschochet said:

Well now we get to the heart of our disagreement: I believe your first and second sentences are, essentially, the same thing. There can be no teaching of American history from a black perspective without acknowledging that racism is baked into the American system. Furthermore your last point I don’t simply disagree with; I hold that it’s demonstrably, objectively untrue. 

Racism is not baked j to our system, as demonstrated by the wide range of people from all over the world who come here and enjoy success.

Your position on this is flawed 

[The Real timschochet 2,872]

10 minutes ago, RLLD said:

Racism is not baked j to our system, as demonstrated by the wide range of people from all over the world who come here and enjoy success.

Your position on this is flawed 

There is no contradiction between your first two statements. It’s true, and wonderful, that immigrants come here from all over the world and achieve success. Thats a big part of what makes this country the greatest in the history of civilization. 
At the same time, we have always had, and continue to have, serious inequities with regard to African-Americans, which are mostly a result of racism, and that is absolutely baked into our system. Black Americans, unlike most other immigrant groups, did not come here willingly for the most part; their ancestors were brought here in chains. That’s a very significant difference between them and those of us whose great grandparents arrived on Ellis Island, for example. 

[Fnord 1,124]

29 minutes ago, RLLD said:

Racism is not baked j to our system, as demonstrated by the wide range of people from all over the world who come here and enjoy success.

Your position on this is flawed 

The reality that a wide range of people come from all over the world and find success in America does not mean there is no racism baked into the apple pie.

I think there are a lot of loud, uninformed or agenda-driven people that will happily fault racism for a lack of success or opportunity and use it as a giant scapegoat. I don't agree with that. But the consistent refrain I see here that it just doesn't exist is ludicrous. 

[Dizkneelande 839]

The only institutional racism is affirmative action.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,588]

16 minutes ago, Fnord said:

The reality that a wide range of people come from all over the world and find success in America does not mean there is no racism baked into the apple pie.

I think there are a lot of loud, uninformed or agenda-driven people that will happily fault racism for a lack of success or opportunity and use it as a giant scapegoat. I don't agree with that. But the consistent refrain I see here that it just doesn't exist is ludicrous. 

It exists. It’s not sanctioned by the government.  Pity your kind can’t grasp that simple truth.  

[crackattack 513]

38 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

There is no contradiction between your first two statements. It’s true, and wonderful, that immigrants come here from all over the world and achieve success. Thats a big part of what makes this country the greatest in the history of civilization. 
At the same time, we have always had, and continue to have, serious inequities with regard to African-Americans, which are mostly a result of racism, and that is absolutely baked into our system. Black Americans, unlike most other immigrant groups, did not come here willingly for the most part; their ancestors were brought here in chains. That’s a very significant difference between them and those of us whose great grandparents arrived on Ellis Island, for example. 

Now do the Chinese and Asian immigrants. The Chinese Exclusionary Act. The racism they faced at all levels.  Yet the Asians overcame all of the hatred, racism (still today), Laws specifically targeting Asians/Chinese, and are thriving as American citizens. Thriving so much we need to racially discriminate against them again, say like college admissions. Yay!!! diversity. This country is moving backwards under the guise of progression. Segregation is the new integration. It's gross.

[Voltaire 4,554]

1 hour ago, The Real timschochet said:

There is no contradiction between your first two statements. It’s true, and wonderful, that immigrants come here from all over the world and achieve success. Thats a big part of what makes this country the greatest in the history of civilization. 
At the same time, we have always had, and continue to have, serious inequities with regard to African-Americans, which are mostly a result of racism, and that is absolutely baked into our system. Black Americans, unlike most other immigrant groups, did not come here willingly for the most part; their ancestors were brought here in chains. That’s a very significant difference between them and those of us whose great grandparents arrived on Ellis Island, for example. 

Another instance where we always have to go back 55 years, or in this case 300, to find actually systemic racism. As always, examples of racism in America contain a noun, a verb, and some sh*t that happened over 60 years ago.

Assuming you're 51 like me, you'd have experienced nothing but generation after generation of the country and various private institutions bending over backwards to overcorrect the situation by instituting pro-black racism. Along the way, great progress has been made to remedy the situation for the black population and these legacy programs from when racism actually was a problem are frequently benefitting people who no long need assistance and who never experienced discrimination against but rather in favor of.

But further, since you brought up the topic of immigrants, you may have noticed the success that African and Caribbean immigrants have in the US, they don't have any "baked in problems" based on the color of their skin, which again puts lie to your white-guilt delusions spoon-fed to you once upon a time by agenda-driven Marxist professors of the ongoing existence of systemic racism in the United States,

[Fnord 1,124]

38 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

It exists. It’s not sanctioned by the government.  Pity your kind can’t grasp that simple truth.  

Did I say it was? Nope. Newsflash: the government does not equal society at large.

[BuckSwope 654]

1 minute ago, Voltaire said:

Another instance where we always have to go back 55 years, or in this case 300, to find actually systemic racism. As always, examples of racism in America contain a noun, a verb, and some sh*t that happened over 60 years ago.

Assuming you're 51 like me, you'd have experienced nothing but generation after generation of the country and various private institutions bending over backwards to overcorrect the situation by instituting pro-black racism. Along the way, great progress has been made to remedy the situation for the black population and these legacy programs from when racism actually was a problem are frequently benefitting people who no long need assistance and who never experienced discrimination against but rather in favor of.

But further, since you brought up the topic of immigrants, you may have noticed the success that African and Caribbean immigrants have in the US, they don't have any problems based on the color of their skin, which again puts lie to your white-guilt delusions spoon-fed to you once upon a time by agenda-driven Marxist professors of the ongoing existence of systemic racism in the United States,

I think the big difference here is the poverty levels and different communities.   On average the other black immigrants have a higher level of income and education as they pack up and come here.  I also doubt just because they have similar skin tone they are moving into the projects of Chicago when they come here.    They very well can and do face some of the hurdles after they get here, but they also are not starting off in the same environment.  

 

 

[Fireballer 2,369]

3 minutes ago, BuckSwope said:

I think the big difference here is the poverty levels and different communities.   On average the other black immigrants have a higher level of income and education as they pack up and come here.  I also doubt just because they have similar skin tone they are moving into the projects of Chicago when they come here.    They very well can and do face some of the hurdles after they get here, but they also are not starting off in the same environment.  

 

 

So, it’s not really about race then?

[RLLD 3,455]

1 hour ago, Fnord said:

The reality that a wide range of people come from all over the world and find success in America does not mean there is no racism baked into the apple pie.

I think there are a lot of loud, uninformed or agenda-driven people that will happily fault racism for a lack of success or opportunity and use it as a giant scapegoat. I don't agree with that. But the consistent refrain I see here that it just doesn't exist is ludicrous. 

I would need to see proof. And when proof is provided I am ready to contact my elected representative to make changes to the laws that are doing this

 

[The Real timschochet 2,872]

8 minutes ago, Voltaire said:

Another instance where we always have to go back 55 years, or in this case 300, to find actually systemic racism. As always, examples of racism in America contain a noun, a verb, and some sh*t that happened over 60 years ago.

Assuming you're 51 like me, you'd have experienced nothing but generation after generation of the country and various private institutions bending over backwards to overcorrect the situation by instituting pro-black racism. Along the way, great progress has been made to remedy the situation for the black population and these legacy programs from when racism actually was a problem are frequently benefitting people who no long need assistance and who never experienced discrimination against but rather in favor of.

But further, since you brought up the topic of immigrants, you may have noticed the success that African and Caribbean immigrants have in the US, they don't have any "baked in problems" based on the color of their skin, which again puts lie to your white-guilt delusions spoon-fed to you once upon a time by agenda-driven Marxist professors of the ongoing existence of systemic racism in the United States,

Lol, I didn’t get my point of view spoon fed to me by any Marxist professors. But I find that supposition amusing. 
The rest of your argument, while quite familiar, is easily contradicted by the facts. You claim that we as a society have bent over backwards to compensate for previous acts of racism. That’s the standard line but any close examination reveals that it’s actually not true at all. I offer you a couple of excellent books on this subject: White Rage and The New Jim Crow. 

[BuckSwope 654]

Just now, Fireballer said:

So, it’s not really about race then?

IMO most of the issues are poverty/education driven.   It just happens that a large % of the black community is in poverty so things that effect poor people also have a disproportionate effect on that community (which causes people to cry racism).    I've always said the left needs to drop most of the race stuff, and focus just on poverty.  It would still largely address the black community, but it wouldn't isolate the poor white communities that have also been gutted and are seeing the violence and drugs seep in.   

Yes, I think that is also a remnant of policies from decades ago.   

[Voltaire 4,554]

13 minutes ago, BuckSwope said:

IMO most of the issues are poverty/education driven.   It just happens that a large % of the black community is in poverty so things that effect poor people also have a disproportionate effect on that community (which causes people to cry racism).    I've always said the left needs to drop most of the race stuff, and focus just on poverty.  It would still largely address the black community, but it wouldn't isolate the poor white communities that have also been gutted and are seeing the violence and drugs seep in.   

Yes, I think that is also a remnant of policies from decades ago.   

This is some common ground to be found, Buck. It would be nice if Tim and Fnord would sign up for the right reasons, but they are too married to the race lie.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,588]

Liberals cry racism and meanwhile black kids can’t read or write in the cities and the institutions they control. Systemic failure is a much bigger issue than the cries of non-existent systemic racism. 

[Voltaire 4,554]

39 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

The rest of your argument, while quite familiar, is easily contradicted by the facts.

I'd like to invite you to easily contradict my familiar argument with facts under 60 years old then.

[jerryskids 5,169]

38 minutes ago, BuckSwope said:

IMO most of the issues are poverty/education driven.   It just happens that a large % of the black community is in poverty so things that effect poor people also have a disproportionate effect on that community (which causes people to cry racism).    I've always said the left needs to drop most of the race stuff, and focus just on poverty.  It would still largely address the black community, but it wouldn't isolate the poor white communities that have also been gutted and are seeing the violence and drugs seep in.   

Yes, I think that is also a remnant of policies from decades ago.   

I tried to argue this very thing at my brief time at the FBG politics board (summer of 21).  It was then I learned that a lot of people believe that if an issue is driven by another factor (in this case, poverty) but disproportionately affects blacks, it is racist.  This defies logic to me, as I feel there must be some intentional targeting of the race for it to be racism, so I didn't know how to respond.  I was trying to be excellent so I probably just said we'll agree to disagree.  

[BuckSwope 654]

33 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

I tried to argue this very thing at my brief time at the FBG politics board (summer of 21).  It was then I learned that a lot of people believe that if an issue is driven by another factor (in this case, poverty) but disproportionately affects blacks, it is racist.  This defies logic to me, as I feel there must be some intentional targeting of the race for it to be racism, so I didn't know how to respond.  I was trying to be excellent so I probably just said we'll agree to disagree.  

A popular definition is just that:  a policy a that furthers the divide or unequally effects a race.   I understand what is trying to be said there, but like other issues we have to have common sense and nuance.  If the black community is disproportionally in poverty, then it goes to reason that any such change do to with the cost of things, access to things, whatever will also disproportionally reach the black community.   That's where common sense needs to come in.   You start claiming the high price of eggs, gas prices, and inflation are racist because of that, you start to look like a loon.  

To me that is where most of the divide in the parties comes in.  One is looking for more direct 1:1 correlation and intent for racism the other looking just at outcome.  

[The Real timschochet 2,872]

2 hours ago, Voltaire said:

I'd like to invite you to easily contradict my familiar argument with facts under 60 years old then.

I offered you two recent books that do just that. Please read them and get back to me. 

[squistion 878]

2 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

Lol, I didn’t get my point of view spoon fed to me by any Marxist professors. But I find that supposition amusing. 
The rest of your argument, while quite familiar, is easily contradicted by the facts. You claim that we as a society have bent over backwards to compensate for previous acts of racism. That’s the standard line but any close examination reveals that it’s actually not true at all. I offer you a couple of excellent books on this subject: White Rage and The New Jim Crow. 

Me either. I went to U.S.C. 

[The Real timschochet 2,872]

15 minutes ago, squistion said:

Me either. I went to U.S.C. 

Well IMO that’s worse. 

[The Real timschochet 2,872]

Hulu has a new series called “The 1619 Project”. I’m very eager to watch. 

[Voltaire 4,554]

35 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

I offered you two recent books that do just that. Please read them and get back to me. 

I have neither the time nor enthusiasm nor sufficient antacid tablets for that.

[RogerDodger 797]

Read a book and get back to me.

His idiot brother wont read a single post that's linked for him.  

[The Real timschochet 2,872]

28 minutes ago, Voltaire said:

I have neither the time nor enthusiasm nor sufficient antacid tablets for that.

They would certainly give you antacid as they contain fact after fact that totally contradicts your position on this issue. You seem to believe that racism ended in this country over 50 years ago. It’s simply a false supposition. 

[craftsman 1,045]

1 minute ago, The Real timschochet said:

They would certainly give you antacid as they contain fact after fact that totally contradicts your position on this issue. You seem to believe that racism ended in this country over 50 years ago. It’s simply a false supposition. 

I know. Blacks are the most racist people in this country. They hate Asians, Whites, Latinos...everyone including other blacks. 

[The Real timschochet 2,872]

Or you could watch the Hulu show: 

https://www.rollingstone.com/tv-movies/tv-movie-reviews/the-1619-project-hulu-docuseries-slavery-american-history-gop-nikole-hannah-jones-1234668463/amp/

“The history that the GOP doesn’t want you to see.” 

[craftsman 1,045]

1 minute ago, The Real timschochet said:

Or you could watch the Hulu show: 

https://www.rollingstone.com/tv-movies/tv-movie-reviews/the-1619-project-hulu-docuseries-slavery-american-history-gop-nikole-hannah-jones-1234668463/amp/

“The history that the GOP doesn’t want you to see.” 

1619 is farcical. Or are we talking the history of Africa? Let's teach that. 

[Hardcore troubadour 12,588]

1 hour ago, The Real timschochet said:

Hulu has a new series called “The 1619 Project”. I’m very eager to watch. 

Cool.  Let us know what you learn that you don’t know already. Thanks in advance.