AJ Brown to Eagles: Sign Jalen Hurts or Trade Me

[League Champion 1,593]

Don't worry AJ, it's happening.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2023/02/21/aj-brown-eagles-sign-jalen-hurts-contract

At least AJ catches a football better than he communicates. “If you do not pay this man, just ship me off wherever he finna go,” 

[Ray_T 587]

This is one I wouldnt be worried about.  he got them to the superbowl.   They are not gonna let him walk now.

 

[wolves111 69]

34 minutes ago, Ray_T said:

This is one I wouldnt be worried about.  he got them to the superbowl.   They are not gonna let him walk now.

 

As an Eagles fan I’d trade both of them. They lost the SB ,with according to the entire fan base and Philly media, the best roster in team history. Well, if that’s true it can only go downhill from there.

No one, except for a doctor capable of saving a life, is worth what these two want.

Dump both of them.

[EternalShinyAndChrome 2,493]

14 minutes ago, wolves111 said:

As an Eagles fan I’d trade both of them. They lost the SB ,with according to the entire fan base and Philly media, the best roster in team history. Well, if that’s true it can only go downhill from there.

No one, except for a doctor capable of saving a life, is worth what these two want.

Dump both of them.

I agree with this. Also, as a Running QB Hurts is only going to be able to fool people for maybe another year.  Time to sell high.

[weepaws 2,452]

All the teams that don’t win a super bowl should do that. Every player in the nfl is over paid.  

Thanks.  

[Ray_T 587]

6 hours ago, wolves111 said:

As an Eagles fan I’d trade both of them. They lost the SB ,with according to the entire fan base and Philly media, the best roster in team history. Well, if that’s true it can only go downhill from there.

No one, except for a doctor capable of saving a life, is worth what these two want.

Dump both of them.

its easy to say dump him, but who are you going to bring in that is better?

this is a young QB.   hes still on a learning curve.   I'm the first to admit, I didnt think he had what it took.   his first year he excited fans but didnt look like he could throw the football at all.   his second year he was a bit better but I still felt he was an inferior version of Lamar Jackson.  but this year he improved some more and actually looks like he can throw the ball.

at the very least I think they should see if he can get better one more time.   dont you?

This team was close to winning a superbowl.   if he gets even just a little better.  lets say his stats stay the same but he turns the ball over a bit less.    That might be enough to get them across the finish line.

just sayin.

 

[League Champion 1,593]

11 hours ago, EternalShinyAndChrome said:

Also, as a Running QB Hurts is only going to be able to fool people for maybe another year.  Time to sell high

He's not a "running QB". If you think that then you're not paying attention. Jalen Hurts can make all the throws from the pocket, he goes through his progressions, etc. He's pass first. 

Lamar is the perfect example of a running QB. He's a one read QB, hates throwing from the pocket, panics under pressure, etc. 

Hurts is not a running QB, he runs when he needs to. I do agree in the sense that they need to limit the designed run plays. That may change now with a new OC. 

[EternalShinyAndChrome 2,493]

2 hours ago, League Champion said:

He's not a "running QB". If you think that then you're not paying attention. Jalen Hurts can make all the throws from the pocket, he goes through his progressions, etc. He's pass first. 

Lamar is the perfect example of a running QB. He's a one read QB, hates throwing from the pocket, panics under pressure, etc. 

Hurts is not a running QB, he runs when he needs to. I do agree in the sense that they need to limit the designed run plays. That may change now with a new OC. 

The dude had like 77 yd rushing in the super bowl.  The second most of any running back from either team and by far the most of any on his team.  And this wasn't the only game that that has happened.  There is a reason they're calling designed running plays for him and it's not because he's the greatest thrower. 

IMO, that is the epitome of a running quarterback.  It's just my opinion, of course.

How many designed running plays did you see Rodgers, Manning, Brees or Brady do?  I bet that number is almost zero for their entire careers. Guys like hurts are getting those every game and it's reducing their shelf life and they're getting those design plays because the coaching staff doesn't have confidence in their throwing.

[League Champion 1,593]

1 minute ago, EternalShinyAndChrome said:

How many designed running plays did you see Rodgers, Manning, Brees or Brady do?  I bet that number is almost zero for their entire careers. Guys like hurts are getting those every game and it's reducing their shelf life and they're getting those design plays because the coaching staff doesn't have confidence in their throwing.

So did John Elway, so did Steve Young

SO DOES JOSH ALLEN AND PATRICK MAHOMES. 

ARE YOU TRADING AWAY JOSH ALLEN???? 

[EternalShinyAndChrome 2,493]

1 hour ago, League Champion said:

So did John Elway, so did Steve Young

SO DOES JOSH ALLEN AND PATRICK MAHOMES. 

ARE YOU TRADING AWAY JOSH ALLEN???? 

Patrick Mahomes isn't a running QB - that's obvious.  Allen I'm on the fence - I think he's PROBABLY closer to a running QB than a passing QB but he's also going to suffer the same fate as running QBs with his increased amount of hits.

I don't know if NFL teams CAN trade their guys since they've invested so much in them, but they SHOULD, IMO.  In reality, they shouldn't have drafted them in the first place.  The running QB just doesn't last long in the NFL and they run to hide deficiencies in the pass game.  Those deficiencies become more pronounced when they can't run anymore due to injury (from, of course, running) or NFL Defenses figuring them out (and they always do).

I'm trying to think of an exception to that rule and I can't think of any at the moment - but if there are then they're still exceptions to the rule, not the rule.

 

[Ray_T 587]

8 hours ago, EternalShinyAndChrome said:

  The running QB just doesn't last long in the NFL and they run to hide deficiencies in the pass game.

well, they dont last as long for sure.  pretty sure its because they take a lot more hits   as for the reason they run..... I suspect its just because they can.  and I'm sure this is done by design.   

it forces defenses to play differently.   instead of going for the sack, they just try to contain you.   as a result, the QB gets more time to throw (at times)

yes, the ability to run will cover up some deficiencies in the pass game, and any reasonable QB coach will use this to give their guy more time to round out other parts of his game as he gets older.   it doesnt always work but thats typically the plan anyhow.

[TBayXXXVII 2,106]

On 2/23/2023 at 7:32 AM, League Champion said:

So did John Elway, so did Steve Young

SO DOES JOSH ALLEN AND PATRICK MAHOMES. 

ARE YOU TRADING AWAY JOSH ALLEN???? 

Elway - 231 games / 3407 rushing yards / 14.6 yards per game.

Mahomes - 80 games / 1547 rushing yards / 19.3 yards per game.

Young - 169 games / 4239 rushing yards / 25.1 yards per game.

Allen - 77 games / 3087 yards / 40.1 yards per game.

*Hurts - 34 starts / 1816 rushing yards / 53.4 yards per game.

*Jackson - 61 starts / 4298 rushing yards / 70.5 yards per game.

*I didn't count the games in which they played and were used as gimmick runners in their rookie seasons.

 

Hurts is much more relatable to Jackson than he is Elway, Young, and Mahomes.  Allen runs more than Young, but less than Hurts, a tweener of sorts.  But Hurts is a running QB, just like Jackson and NOT like Elway, Young, or Mahomes.  If I'm a general manager, I'm never drafting a Jackson/Hurts type QB, but if I had one, I certainly wouldn't give them any kind of long-term deal.  If I'm the Ravens, I'm tagging Jackson this year and drafting his replacement.  If I'm the Eagles, I do nothing this year, tag Hurts next year... then let him walk or trade him (and AJ Brown at the same time).

[weepaws 2,452]

Showing Hurts with 34 starts, I wonder how many rushing yards per game those other QBs avg in their first 34 starts.  

[jrokh 567]

56 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

If I'm a general manager,

Your Team would go 0-17 every year. That's why THEY are GM's and you post on a FF message Bored. Don't quit your day job...

[TBayXXXVII 2,106]

1 hour ago, weepaws said:

Showing Hurts with 34 starts, I wonder how many rushing yards per game those other QBs avg in their first 34 starts.  

Elway - 16.6

Young - 38 (that was until 1991) - He never played more than 10 games in a season over that time frame. 

Mahomes - 17.1

Allen - 38.8

Jackson - 75.1

[League Champion 1,593]

2 hours ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Elway - 16.6

Young - 38 (that was until 1991) - He never played more than 10 games in a season over that time frame. 

Mahomes - 17.1

Allen - 38.8

Jackson - 75.1

Ok, let me explain to everyone why these stats are garbage. QBs don't get hit anymore, they are allowed to slide. Back then you'd get killed if you ran at a linebacker. 

Y'all are living in the stone age of football, it's an entirely different game. QBs can barely get touched 

 

[jrokh 567]

I don’t even care about the numbers. I watched Hurts play live a bunch this year. Dude is a stud. Some of those throws in the SB were next-level…

[TBayXXXVII 2,106]

12 minutes ago, League Champion said:

Ok, let me explain to everyone why these stats are garbage. QBs don't get hit anymore, they are allowed to slide. Back then you'd get killed if you ran at a linebacker. 

Y'all are living in the stone age of football, it's an entirely different game. QBs can barely get touched 

 

Every QB in your original post, played in the era where QB's can slide to avoid getting hit.  That rule came about in 1985.  Elway's rookie season was 1983 and Young's was 1985.

[League Champion 1,593]

33 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Every QB in your original post, played in the era where QB's can slide to avoid getting hit.  That rule came about in 1985.  Elway's rookie season was 1983 and Young's was 1985.

No, the rules have changed significantly just over the past several years. You can't hit a QB going out of bounds, no headshots, targeting, no taking out the knees, etc. 

 

[AxeElf 787]

You initially said...

1 hour ago, League Champion said:

QBs don't get hit anymore, they are allowed to slide.

Fortunately, the goalposts in the NFL don't move as much as yours.

 

[TBayXXXVII 2,106]

53 minutes ago, League Champion said:

No, the rules have changed significantly just over the past several years. You can't hit a QB going out of bounds, no headshots, targeting, no taking out the knees, etc. 

 

Yet, QB's that run get hurt/miss more games/have shorter careers, than pocket passers.  Just like back in the day.  Nothing has changed on that front.  Having a guy that can scramble is great, but a guy who rushes for a lot of yards/has designed runs, won't have as long a career.  Well, at the very least, you're playing with fire.

[weepaws 2,452]

5 hours ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Elway - 16.6

Young - 38 (that was until 1991) - He never played more than 10 games in a season over that time frame. 

Mahomes - 17.1

Allen - 38.8

Jackson - 75.1

Thanks for the work. 

I thought  both Elway and Young might be a little bit higher.  

 

[League Champion 1,593]

I'm telling you, everyone is stereotyping Jalen Hurts, he's not a "running QB". Unlike Lamar or Murray, the kid can sling it from the pocket. I'll bet anything that you'll see a lot less designed runs this year, especially with a new OC and big contract in works. 

[AxeElf 787]

53 minutes ago, League Champion said:

I'm telling you, everyone is stereotyping Jalen Hurts, he's not a "running QB". Unlike Lamar or Murray, the kid can sling it from the pocket. I'll bet anything that you'll see a lot less designed runs this year, especially with a new OC and big contract in works. 

If they just wanted a pure passer to run the offense, they'd trade Hurts and go with Minshew, who has a higher career completion percentage, a better career TD to INT ratio, and a better career QB rating than Hurts.  The value Hurts brings is the added threat of the run.

[Ray_T 587]

57 minutes ago, League Champion said:

I'm telling you, everyone is stereotyping Jalen Hurts, he's not a "running QB". Unlike Lamar or Murray, the kid can sling it from the pocket. I'll bet anything that you'll see a lot less designed runs this year, especially with a new OC and big contract in works. 

of course hes a running QB.  look how many rush yards he gets.

but hes a guy whose ability to throw has gotten good enough that he can transition away from that game.

sure, he will always be able to run but if he can sit in the pocket and be comfortable there and pick a defense apart, the need to run the football will diminish as he gains expereince.

thing is, each year he spends as a running QB likely shortens his career by one year. (I have no stats to suggest that but its my best guess assuming the average QB's last to age 35 now.

6 hours ago, jrokh said:

I don’t even care about the numbers. I watched Hurts play live a bunch this year. Dude is a stud. Some of those throws in the SB were next-level…

I agree with Jrokh.   he passed the eye test for sure.

and I'm not a lover of the guy.   if you look at my posts at the start of the year I thought he was a lamar jackson type who couldnt throw as well.

now I think it is the opposite.  Jackson is like Hurts but HE doesn't throw as well.

I do think he needs to improve his decision making a bit if hes gonna transition and eventually be a pocket passer but hes close to that point.  Hes getting a bit of a break on the pass rush because teams know if they dont maintain their gaps he will burn them with his feet.   so the transition can be a bit rough as the pass rush will get more aggressive once his threat to run diminishes.

[League Champion 1,593]

6 minutes ago, AxeElf said:

If they just wanted a pure passer to run the offense, they'd trade Hurts and go with Minshew,

Are you F'ing serious? He started 2 games for the Eagles last season. Why don't you go back and look at his stats in those 2 games. He was God Awful. There's a reason Minshew is a backup NFL QB, HE SUCKS ASS! 

[Ray_T 587]

Just now, League Champion said:

Are you F'ing serious? He started 2 games for the Eagles last season. Why don't you go back and look at his stats in those 2 games. He was God Awful. There's a reason Minshew is a backup NFL QB, HE SUCKS ASS! 

hes not wrong.  minshew was clearly the insurance policy here.   the guy can play.  but hes more in the mould of a traditional drop back passer.

[League Champion 1,593]

Just now, Ray_T said:

of course hes a running QB.  look how many rush yards he gets

Is he not supposed to run when there's a wide open lane? He runs when the opportunity is there, he doesn't run just to run like Justin Fields. Fields runs because he has no idea what to do. Hurts runs because he can. 

Again, he's not a running QB. He's a legit pocket passer that CAN run when he needs to, and he's been extremely efficient at it. 

 

[League Champion 1,593]

3 minutes ago, Ray_T said:

hes not wrong.  minshew was clearly the insurance policy here.   the guy can play.  but hes more in the mould of a traditional drop back passer.

He's a free agent, they have no plans to resign him. How's that for insurance? 

[Ray_T 587]

what makes him a running QB is how often he runs and (how many extra hits he takes)

its not about how good he is throwing the ball.    That only determins whether he has the ability to change to a drop back QB to enhance his longevity as a starting QB in the NFL.

some transition successfully and some dont. 

What I'm saying is his passing game is to a point where he has the ability to make that transition.   but if he continues to play the way he is, his career will be short too.  You cant take that many big hits and continue to play.  people said the same about Cam Newton and suddenly Newton got hurt and nobody thought he could play anymore.   once again he took some massive hits.   part of the problem there was he was behind an absolutely terrible line (which did not help)  but he is a running QB as of today.   that may change, it may not.  I have no doubt he will always take advantage of a big lane but if he transitions he needs to be a lot more selective about when and where he runs the ball.   He cant just do it every time he sees something because the athleticism that makes him great wont be there at age 31.  it just wont be.

[AxeElf 787]

3 hours ago, League Champion said:

He's a free agent, they have no plans to resign him.

So we agree that the Eagles prefer the better running QB to the better passing QB.

[weepaws 2,452]

Hard to take Minshew numbers very seriously since he’s only played in 32 games in four seasons.  

 

[League Champion 1,593]

6 hours ago, AxeElf said:

So we agree that the Eagles prefer the better running QB to the better passing QB.

They prefer the better QB. The one who lost only one game and took them to the Superbowl last season. 

Yes, that guy over a career backup who's barely in the league. How crazy is that?? 

[AxeElf 787]

8 hours ago, League Champion said:

Yes, that guy over a career backup who's barely in the league. How crazy is that?? 

The crazy part is that the career backup who's barely in the league is statistically a better passing QB than Jalen Hurts.

[Kopy 489]

Quote

 

1. Hurts will get extended.

2. Brown has turned out to be a whiney c*nt.

 

[League Champion 1,593]

17 hours ago, AxeElf said:

The crazy part is that the career backup who's barely in the league is statistically a better passing QB than Jalen Hurts.

Except he can't win the NFL. Do you think maybe that's a problem?? 

 

[AxeElf 787]

5 hours ago, League Champion said:

Except he can't win the NFL. Do you think maybe that's a problem??

What exactly would it take to "win the NFL"--a SuperBowl ring?  Well, Jalen Hurts couldn't "win the NFL" either.

I know you didn't mean to say "win IN the NFL," since Gardner Minshew already has several wins in the NFL.

[weepaws 2,452]

6 hours ago, Kopy said:

1. Hurts will get extended.

2. Brown has turned out to be a whiney c*nt.

 

Brown is simply another deva wr.   But they get paid, and that’s really all they want l their isn’t any commitment to excellence.  

[weepaws 2,452]

6 hours ago, League Champion said:

Except he can't win the NFL. Do you think maybe that's a problem?? 

 

Yes. 

[Ray_T 587]

On 2/26/2023 at 8:05 AM, League Champion said:

Except he can't win the NFL. Do you think maybe that's a problem?? 

 

sample size is too small.  he was playing for a somewhat disfunctional Jacksonville team and still produced reasonably well.   remember his last year as starter he injured his hand, tried to play through it and ended up having to sit a bit to get healthy.

I think if I was the GM of a QB needy team and I didnt have a top draft pick to get one or the cash to sign a top guy..... I'd see if he is willing to accept a team friendly deal to start for me.

I think if I'm the Saints, or Tampa, I'd strongly consider an option like him.  They dont have high draft picks or cap space, so this is an option for them.