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The Real timschochet

How many of you conservatives here agree with DeSantis and Trump about Ukraine?

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Desantis is 100% correct.  Ukraine is not in our vital interests.  We should fortify the surrounding countries stay the hell out of this mess. 

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1 hour ago, JustinCharge said:

Tim Scott, Mike Pompeo, Mike Pence and Nikki Haley are fully pro war.  

None of these people are "pro-war," you catastrophizing, booger-eating moron.

They're supporting Ukraine. 

None of these people will be disappointed if Russia quits this thing.

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2 hours ago, JustinCharge said:

Sounds to me like TimSchoschet is lying.  

Is today Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday or Saturday?

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I don't mind Ukraine being helped, I'm just not sure how much the US needs to do the heavy lifting (as Tim mentioned in his OP).  It seems that the actual European countries could be providing the help that we are currently.  But I suspect countries like Germany want to look less-than-all-in so that they can still suck Russia's d1ck for some sweet sweet fossil fuels, then as a bonus turn around and tell us how our carbon footprint sucks.

Quote

Limited German aid sent to Ukraine

Comparing data from the last published Ukraine Support Tracker update from December 2022, IfW researchers found the US had pledged an additional €37 billion ($39 billion), thereby once again surpassing contributions made by the EU and its member states. Both pledged and delivered aid from Washington now totals €73.1 billion, compared with the EU's figure of €54.9 billion.

In total, €128 billion has been provided, or promised, as aid for Ukraine. Notably, the US has gifted twice the amount of the entire EU, followed by the UK and Germany. 

...

IfW economists also compared Western aid to Ukraine in the first 12 months of the conflict with Western spending in previous wars. In terms of gross domestic product, for example, Germany spent three times more to defend Kuwait during the 1990-91 Gulf War.

https://www.dw.com/en/ukraine-military-aid-how-much-has-the-west-provided/a-64778105

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2 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

The MSM has reported where the money is going, at length and in much detail.

 

1 hour ago, The Real timschochet said:

You know as well as I do that when this amount of money is spent, whether for military or other purposes, there’s going to be some corruption. That’s just reality. 

:lol:

Worse than GutterPedo.  

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1 hour ago, Voltaire said:

I've been supportive of funding the war and have few criticisms of the way Biden is handling it because Russia had no business invading Ukraine

The Ukrainian nazis only killed 14000 civilians in the Donbas before Russia invaded territory that use to belong to them but yeah war hurrah. You know how I know this whole thing is bull crap? All the people that are cheering it on hate people like me and other GC folks. 

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7 minutes ago, Dizkneelande said:

The Ukrainian nazis only killed 14000 civilians in the Donbas before Russia invaded territory that use to belong to them but yeah war hurrah. You know how I know this whole thing is bull crap? All the people that are cheering it on hate people like me and other GC folks. 

:lol:  Some deep thinking going on here.   This is some snowflake b.s. right here.   Oh geez, somebody might not like you - they must be wrong about everything!!  

 

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I don't give a wet fart about Ukraine. But since we're sending all this money over there, money which could be better spent here at home defending our own border and rebuilding our failing infrastructure, I have an idea. 

I'd be ok if we take in a million Ukrainian refugees to help ensure their safety. Since the men would have to stay to defend their country, I guess they'd all have to be female. Between the ages of 18 and 24. I'm willing to do my part and would be happy to house a couple of them myself. 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Dizkneelande said:

The Ukrainian nazis only killed 14000 civilians in the Donbas before Russia invaded territory that use to belong to them but yeah war hurrah. You know how I know this whole thing is bull crap? All the people that are cheering it on hate people like me and other GC folks. 

It's a good rule of thumb since the globalists are idiots who shouldn't be trusted, but they aren't necessarily wrong. The Russians are the aggressors, not the Ukrainians. Russia is also a dictatorship without rights and liberties where the leader puts out hits on people who cross him.

Ukraine has a flawed and corrupt government, but doesn't deserve to have an outside army occupy it and strip off it's natural resources.

As for the Russian military, breaking their army over a war they initiated, with Ukraine picking up the awful tab in casualty by defending itself rather than  having US service members at risk, saves us directly from the worst thing about war. 

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3 minutes ago, 5-Points said:

I don't give a wet fart about Ukraine. But since we're sending all this money over there, money which could be better spent here at home defending our own border and rebuilding our failing infrastructure, I have an idea. 

I'd be ok if we take in a million Ukrainian refugees to help ensure their safety. Since the men would have to stay to defend their country, I guess they'd all have to be female. Between the ages of 18 and 24. I'm willing to do my part and would be happy to house a couple of them myself. 

 

 

TJ Booker never finished his story. :(

 

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When is it time for Europe to step up? How many billions should we send? Is there a limit?

Surely Biden is paid up on his personal debts to Ukraine by now. :dunno:

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2 minutes ago, Voltaire said:

TJ Booker never finished his story. :(

 

Judging from his diet, he prolly has plenty of wet farts to give. 

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I don't care what anyone says. Fock Ukraine. At this point, I just hope they get fully taken over so biden doesn't keep sending money over there instead of supporting the US day in and day out. Even if the war just ends I don't want Ukraine to own any of it anymore because biden and his financial interests will keep the money flowing over there to rebuild the nation and pad his own pocketbook on our dime. Screw that. I would rather hear biden cry about Putin for the next couple years til he gets ousted and drifts off fully into dementia land.  

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Fock Ukraine. It wasn't too long ago they were part of the USSR. Why should I care about them? I'm rooting for them, as I'd like to see Russia take it in the ass, but if was up to me, they'd be doing it without our help, or $$.

If a NATO country gets attacked, I'll care.

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8 hours ago, Thornton Melon said:

Fock Ukraine. It wasn't too long ago they were part of the USSR. Why should I care about them? I'm rooting for them, as I'd like to see Russia take it in the ass, but if was up to me, they'd be doing it without our help, or $$.

If a NATO country gets attacked, I'll care.

So if Ukraine joins nato tomorrow then suddenly you care?

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18 minutes ago, GutterBoy said:

So if Ukraine joins nato tomorrow then suddenly you care?

What is the point of NATO if we will hand security and indefinite billions to any country not in NATO?  Why not just make a pact that the USA will defend and hand over a blank check to any country in the world  that is threatened?

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11 hours ago, Reality said:

When is it time for Europe to step up? How many billions should we send? Is there a limit?

Surely Biden is paid up on his personal debts to Ukraine by now. :dunno:

It is sort of like the bank account limit gutter was babbling about yesterday.   

See there is a limit.  But no one knows what the limit is.  

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15 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

Ron DeSantis and Donald Trump seem unified about our aid to Ukraine- we should cut it off. They offer a host of reasons: money is better spent at home, this isn’t our battle, the rest of Europe lets us do most of the heavy lifting. Etc etc etc. 

I’m curious about conservatives here: do you all agree with them on this? Is isolationism the new policy of the Republican Party? 

If Russia is so big and bad and really wants to take over Ukraine, how come this war has lasted as long as it has?  

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50 minutes ago, listen2me 23 said:

What is the point of NATO if we will hand security and indefinite billions to any country not in NATO?  Why not just make a pact that the USA will defend and hand over a blank check to any country in the world  that is threatened?

I’m pretty sure that is already in the DNC platform. 

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34 minutes ago, Thornton Melon said:

No. Too late.

Exactly, so don't say it has anything to do with NATO.

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3 minutes ago, GutterBoy said:

Exactly, so don't say it has anything to do with NATO.

It’s just a land grab? Simple as that? 

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3 minutes ago, GutterBoy said:

Exactly, so don't say it has anything to do with NATO.

Why shouldn't I? It's too late for them to join NATO. Had they joined before Russia started threatening them, fine. 

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Trump will try to deal with Putin and give him an out at the expense of the Ukrainian people.  This will kick the "Russian/Putin imperialism" problem down the road. He'll claim "peace at all costs" and this will be a problem in 2028 unless Putin gets got by one of his underlings.

Desantis will change his tune once he gets into office.  He's not on the inside seeing the big picture and he's just parroting.  Once he gets in there... he'll quickly realize that killing thousands of Russian soldiers, whittling down their military stockpiles, getting valuable battlefield knowledge, sowing the seeds of social unrest in Russia, seeing how weapons systems work in the real field, thumbing Putin in the eye over this and showing China that we're willing to back someone who wants to stand up is well worth the money.....and the irony will be that all of those Republicans denouncing Ukraine will love him for it.  

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17 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

Ron DeSantis and Donald Trump seem unified about our aid to Ukraine- we should cut it off. They offer a host of reasons: money is better spent at home, this isn’t our battle, the rest of Europe lets us do most of the heavy lifting. Etc etc etc. 

I’m curious about conservatives here: do you all agree with them on this? Is isolationism the new policy of the Republican Party? 

I agree. But instead of spending the money at home. The money shouldn't be spent at all.

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17 hours ago, JustinCharge said:

I care about $27 billion. 

If you cared that much about wasted tax dollars you wouldn't live in California 

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How much went to the train derailment town??  0

Fock Ukraine...corruption runs rampant in that shiithole.

 

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I don't necessarily agree we should abandon Ukraine, but I certainly do believe we need more oversight and thought rather than just handing over a blank check.

I think getting rid of Putin is more important at this point, but that certainly doesn't guarantee his successor will be any better either.

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1 minute ago, EternalShinyAndChrome said:

I don't necessarily agree we should abandon Ukraine, but I certainly do believe we need more oversight and thought rather than just handing over a blank check.

I think getting rid of Putin is more important at this point, but that certainly doesn't guarantee his successor will be any better either.

Is oversight and demanding that Europe share the burden equally such an egregious request? You’re a Putin lackey if you do? 

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5 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Is oversight and demanding that Europe share the burden equally such an egregious request? You’re a Putin lackey if you do? 

absolutely not. Europe certainly should be shouldering most of the burden here since they are DIRECTLY affected by this.

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2 hours ago, zsasz said:

Trump will try to deal with Putin and give him an out at the expense of the Ukrainian people.  This will kick the "Russian/Putin imperialism" problem down the road. He'll claim "peace at all costs" and this will be a problem in 2028 unless Putin gets got by one of his underlings.

Desantis will change his tune once he gets into office.  He's not on the inside seeing the big picture and he's just parroting.  Once he gets in there... he'll quickly realize that killing thousands of Russian soldiers, whittling down their military stockpiles, getting valuable battlefield knowledge, sowing the seeds of social unrest in Russia, seeing how weapons systems work in the real field, thumbing Putin in the eye over this and showing China that we're willing to back someone who wants to stand up is well worth the money.....and the irony will be that all of those Republicans denouncing Ukraine will love him for it.  

Interesting point, there certainly is value in those things. How much I can't say, but I said similar about Obama and his pledge to close Gitmo on day one:  a candidate doesn't know what he doesn't know, and he'll learn the value of it once he is in office.  And he did.

I would argue though that we can still accomplish these things with more skin in the game from the other ###### Euro countries who are gargling Putin's balls for oil.

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2 hours ago, zsasz said:

Trump will try to deal with Putin and give him an out at the expense of the Ukrainian people.  This will kick the "Russian/Putin imperialism" problem down the road. He'll claim "peace at all costs" and this will be a problem in 2028 unless Putin gets got by one of his underlings.

Desantis will change his tune once he gets into office.  He's not on the inside seeing the big picture and he's just parroting.  Once he gets in there... he'll quickly realize that killing thousands of Russian soldiers, whittling down their military stockpiles, getting valuable battlefield knowledge, sowing the seeds of social unrest in Russia, seeing how weapons systems work in the real field, thumbing Putin in the eye over this and showing China that we're willing to back someone who wants to stand up is well worth the money.....and the irony will be that all of those Republicans denouncing Ukraine will love him for it.  

 

6 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

Interesting point, there certainly is value in those things. How much I can't say, but I said similar about Obama and his pledge to close Gitmo on day one:  a candidate doesn't know what he doesn't know, and he'll learn the value of it once he is in office.  And he did.

I would argue though that we can still accomplish these things with more skin in the game from the other ###### Euro countries who are gargling Putin's balls for oil.

Yep, a VERY good point.  Candidates promise a lot of sh#t they end up backtracking on because they just don't know (like jerry said).

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I’ve literally seen “videos” that are nothing but lies and propaganda from our government about Ukraine. A glass bridge in Ukraine got “bombed” and destroyed the other day. But guess what! It’s already rebuilt and people are walking all on it! Amazing! After only a couple days they rebuilt the bridge. Saw a video of people walking on it and then another video of a phone showing that video while on the bridge to show that it isn’t old footage. 
 

Also saw a video of where there were sirens in one of cities that then got “bombed” yet the next morning the city was fine with no destruction. These have all been confirmed with video evidence.

 

So to answer the question: YES I believe trump and Desantis. We should have NEVER given them as much as we did. Biden is doing nothing but literally embezzling our money under the guise of “war” 

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28 minutes ago, EternalShinyAndChrome said:

I don't necessarily agree we should abandon Ukraine, but I certainly do believe we need more oversight and thought rather than just handing over a blank check.

I think getting rid of Putin is more important at this point, but that certainly doesn't guarantee his successor will be any better either.

What makes me want to cut off ALL aid to them is their “president” telling us Americans that OUR sons and daughters WILL go over there to fight for them and WILL die for it. No way in HELL will any of us EVER approve of sending troops there now. So much so, that I’d be willing to become a terrorist throwing Molotov cocktails at government agencies that try to support that. It’ll be a HUGE rude awakening to democrats if they try that bullsh1t

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3 minutes ago, WhiskeyCash said:

I’ve literally seen “videos” that are nothing but lies and propaganda from our government about Ukraine. A glass bridge in Ukraine got “bombed” and destroyed the other day. But guess what! It’s already rebuilt and people are walking all on it! Amazing! After only a couple days they rebuilt the bridge. Saw a video of people walking on it and then another video of a phone showing that video while on the bridge to show that it isn’t old footage. 
 

Also saw a video of where there were sirens in one of cities that then got “bombed” yet the next morning the city was fine with no destruction. These have all been confirmed with video evidence.

 

So to answer the question: YES I believe trump and Desantis. We should have NEVER given them as much as we did. Biden is doing nothing but literally embezzling our money under the guise of “war” 

Thank you. I believe, though I’ve no evidence beyond anecdotal, that your viewpoint is held by either a majority of conservatives or a significantly large minority. If you add it to those who are in favor of what I would term “conditional support” (conditional on greater accountability, however that is defined, or upon Europe contributing more, however that is determined) it becomes a majority of conservatives. Those conservatives who are firmly in favor of supporting Ukraine are, I think, a shrinking minority. 

It will be interesting to see how this plays out. 

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Just now, The Real timschochet said:

Thank you. I believe, though I’ve no evidence beyond anecdotal, that your viewpoint is held by either a majority of conservatives or a significantly large minority. If you add it to those who are in favor of what I would term “conditional support” (conditional on greater accountability, however that is defined, or upon Europe contributing more, however that is determined) it becomes a majority of conservatives. Those conservatives who are firmly in favor of supporting Ukraine are, I think, a shrinking minority. 

It will be interesting to see how this plays out. 

There is no “evidence”???? I literally just told you the evidence. You want I should post the video of the bridge “being bombed” and then another video of someone living there showing the bridge with people walking on it? Or how about the video where he shows that video on a phone while he’s on the bridge with others? 
 

This type of behavior you’re exhibiting is very alarming as the the fact that you won’t accept anything that makes your point or your slave masters look bad like they’re lying. I can see now why everyone here thinks you’re a nutjob that lies every day of the week :doh: 

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Those who are calling for greater accountability: I’m curious as to what specifically you want to see? Again, despite the article from USA Today that @Strike posted, I’m not sure that information on the breakdown of spending is unavailable to those who wish to seek it out. I also want to know: are you proposing a shut down of all further spending until a series of audits are performed? If not, what exactly ARE you proposing? 
 

My suspicion is that the whole accountability argument is an excuse for people who want to cut off aid to Ukraine without having to admit that they want to cut off aid to Ukraine. And that therefore I will never get specific answers to these questions. But we’ll see. 

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12 minutes ago, WhiskeyCash said:

What makes me want to cut off ALL aid to them is their “president” telling us Americans that OUR sons and daughters WILL go over there to fight for them and WILL die for it. No way in HELL will any of us EVER approve of sending troops there now. So much so, that I’d be willing to become a terrorist throwing Molotov cocktails at government agencies that try to support that. It’ll be a HUGE rude awakening to democrats if they try that bullsh1t

I would certainly not approve of sending our sons over there either.

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