EV Vehicles - Will They Work Here

[thegeneral 1,383]

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What does this rather conservative board think?

 

[Bert 1,087]

It can work because Norway is a tiny little country were it is easy to get the necessary infrastructure built.  Norway is half the size of Texas and the average person in the US drives twice as far in a year as the average person in Norway.  

[Horseman 1,510]

If you magically replaced 70% of all the vehicles in the US today with electric it would only offset the C02 put out by China with cement production alone.  

Also, lots of phags in Norway apparently.  

[thegeneral 1,383]

29 minutes ago, Bert said:

It can work because Norway is a tiny little country were it is easy to get the necessary infrastructure built.  Norway is half the size of Texas and the average person in the US drives twice as far in a year as the average person in Norway.  

The average daily driving distance is under 40 miles a day though.

 

[thegeneral 1,383]

34 minutes ago, Horseman said:

If you magically replaced 70% of all the vehicles in the US today with electric it would only offset the C02 put out by China with cement production alone.  

Also, lots of phags in Norway apparently.  

Poor Horseman always thinking about the gheys. NTTATWWT

China does have ambitious renewable energy goals, we’ll see if they meet them.

Not sure if it’s possible here but we should worry about ourselves before considering what they do in our plans.

[Horseman 1,510]

4 minutes ago, thegeneral said:

Poor Horseman always thinking about the gheys. NTTATWWT

China does have ambitious renewable energy goals, we’ll see if we meet them.

Not sure if it’s possible here but we should worry about ourselves before considering what they do in our plans.

Climate change is a global issue dummy.  If China doesn't lead the way it doesn't matter what we do.  That was my whole point, we're a drop in the bucket compared to China.  Shocked that isn't registering with you.  

[thegeneral 1,383]

7 minutes ago, Horseman said:

Climate change is a global issue dummy.  If China doesn't lead the way it doesn't matter what we do.  That was my whole point, we're a drop in the bucket compared to China.  Shocked that isn't registering with you.  

Yep it is a global problem. China for their part has more ambitious plans in place than we do towards renewable energy at large. India would be the one I would worry about in this regard.

We can work on our part however and not follow or base our futures on what others are doing. 

EV’s are just a component of this and there are considerable hoops to jump through, it would take a dedicated effort to achieve what say Norway has done. Not sure if it is possible here but IMO they are a better product for large majority of driving currently and that will eventually push us towards this. 

[shadrap 117]

Might be neither here or there but the driving range of EVs is overstated by 10 to 20% by the manufacturer.  Raw materials needed for the batteries is expensive to obtain & carbon footprint is vastly understated.  just throwing some stuff out there.  

[seafoam1 1,878]

Dear Lord. generalpimpledoosh keeps proving the idiocy of the left.

[bostonlager 2,457]

Unless they create batteries that can be fully charged in less than 5 minutes, no thanks. Too much of an inconvenience. 

[Tree of Knowledge 822]

Range is not sufficient with current technology.  

[listen2me 23 1,534]

Once California figures out how to avoid rolling blackouts then maybe we can move forward some.  

[Baker Boy 1,477]

46 minutes ago, thegeneral said:

Poor Horseman always thinking about the gheys. NTTATWWT

China does have ambitious renewable energy goals, we’ll see if they meet them.

Not sure if it’s possible here but we should worry about ourselves before considering what they do in our plans.

 

31 minutes ago, thegeneral said:

Yep it is a global problem. China for their part has more ambitious plans in place than we do towards renewable energy at large. India would be the one I would worry about in this regard.

We can work on our part however and not follow or base our futures on what others are doing. 

EV’s are just a component of this and there are considerable hoops to jump through, it would take a dedicated effort to achieve what say Norway has done. Not sure if it is possible here but IMO they are a better product for large majority of driving currently and that will eventually push us towards this. 

Why are these ambitious plans? according to the Paris agreement, you are wrong.
 

Paris agreement allows China to increase their carbon emissions until 2030. The United States has to cut emissions between 26 and 28 percent compared with 2005 levels by 2025.

 

 

 

 

[jerryskids 5,169]

19 minutes ago, bostonlager said:

Unless they create batteries that can be fully charged in less than 5 minutes, no thanks. Too much of an inconvenience. 

This is a good point.  People in Scandinavia have a concept called Hygge, which roughly means "happy with average." They have no problem sitting at a station waiting 30+ minutes to charge, it's just part of life, why complain? Quite zen-like, and the reason they are at the top of happiness surveys. 

[thegeneral 1,383]

4 minutes ago, Baker Boy said:

 

Why are these ambitious plans? according to the Paris agreement, you are wrong.
 

Paris agreement allows China to increase their carbon emissions until 2030. The United States has to cut emissions between 26 and 28 percent compared with 2005 levels by 2025.

 

 

 

 

Their goal is carbon neutral by 2060. I think that is ambitious. If they hit that I will be impressed.

[Strike 3,948]

1)  The range thing isn't that big of a deal.  Most families have multiple cars.  You get an EV that you use as a daily driver and have the gas vehicle around for long trips.  Of course, this doesn't apply to everyone but it allows a good chunk of society to mostly get off gasoline.  The problem I have is with the government trying to eliminate non EV vehicles completely.  There is a place for both.

2)  I'd really love a breakdown of exactly how much gas vehicles are to blame for climate change.  Per the following article, methane accounts for 1/3 rd of the warming over the last century and 25 percent currently:

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/mar/06/revealed-1000-super-emitting-methane-leaks-risk-triggering-climate-tipping-points

But we never hear about this or whether they're trying to mitigate it.

There are obviously other causes as well.  So, exactly how much are gas vehicles contributing? 

Of course, as we've discussed in other threads, the fact that our leaders don't embrace Nuclear is a pretty big sign that our leaders aren't serious about combating this issue anyways. 

[MTSkiBum 1,593]

3 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

This is a good point.  People in Scandinavia have a concept called Hygge, which roughly means "happy with average." They have no problem sitting at a station waiting 30+ minutes to charge, it's just part of life, why complain? Quite zen-like, and the reason they are at the top of happiness surveys. 

For the majority of Americans there would be a time savings, just plug in at night. The time savings from not having to go to a gas station every week more than offsets the longer time to charge when you have to stop at a charging station.

 

 

[thegeneral 1,383]

26 minutes ago, bostonlager said:

Unless they create batteries that can be fully charged in less than 5 minutes, no thanks. Too much of an inconvenience. 

This is a big hurdle. For vast majority of driving situations you don’t need this - you drive to work, the store, soccer practice, etc then charge at home over night or at the office during the day. You wouldn’t worry about range at all.

For really long drives though the quick charge tech isn’t there yet though for sure. 

[Strike 3,948]

3 minutes ago, thegeneral said:

Their goal is carbon neutral by 2060. I think that is ambitious. If they hit that I will be impressed.

Sure it is:

https://www.npr.org/2023/03/02/1160441919/china-is-building-six-times-more-new-coal-plants-than-other-countries-report-fin

[seafoam1 1,878]

Just now, thegeneral said:

This is a big hurdle. For vast majority of driving situations you don’t need this - you drive to work, the store, soccer practice, etc then charge at home over night or at the office during the day. You wouldn’t worry about range at all.

For really long drives though the quick charge tech isn’t there yet though for sure. 

You are stupid.

[MTSkiBum 1,593]

16 minutes ago, listen2me 23 said:

Once California figures out how to avoid rolling blackouts then maybe we can move forward some.  

 

An electric vehicle smart grid actual stabilizes the grid. Peak demand is during the day whereas cars would mostly charge at night.

 

They could even feed back into the grid during the day if we had a large enough network of electric cars.

[thegeneral 1,383]

1 minute ago, seafoam1 said:

You are stupid.

[thegeneral 1,383]

3 minutes ago, Strike said:

Sure it is:

https://www.npr.org/2023/03/02/1160441919/china-is-building-six-times-more-new-coal-plants-than-other-countries-report-fin

Them lying or not making it is of course possible. Separate issue from what our goals should be though.

[seafoam1 1,878]

1 minute ago, thegeneral said:

Them lying or not making it is of course possible. Separate issue from what our goals should be though.

You are stupid.

[thegeneral 1,383]

Just now, seafoam1 said:

You are stupid.

You are a doodyhead.

[listen2me 23 1,534]

Just now, MTSkiBum said:

 

An electric vehicle smart grid actual stabilizes the grid. Peak demand is during the day whereas cars would mostly charge at night.

 

They could even feed back into the grid during the day if we had a large enough network of electric cars.

I stand corrected.   Why can't they fix the grid as is now?  Impossible?

[seafoam1 1,878]

4 minutes ago, MTSkiBum said:

 

An electric vehicle smart grid actual stabilizes the grid. Peak demand is during the day whereas cars would mostly charge at night.

 

They could even feed back into the grid during the day if we had a large enough network of electric cars.

They won't feed back in.

And you thinking adding car charging to the grid will stabalize it is false. It's adding to the grid. 

[Engorgeous George 1,154]

1 hour ago, thegeneral said:

Yep it is a global problem. China for their part has more ambitious plans in place than we do towards renewable energy at large. India would be the one I would worry about in this regard.

We can work on our part however and not follow or base our futures on what others are doing. 

EV’s are just a component of this and there are considerable hoops to jump through, it would take a dedicated effort to achieve what say Norway has done. Not sure if it is possible here but IMO they are a better product for large majority of driving currently and that will eventually push us towards this. 

If they are indeed a better product we do not need to be pushed towards it.  Instead we will affirmatively seek it out.  We did not need to be pushed to adopt electric light, indoor plumbing, refrigeration, airconditioning, innoculations, antibiotics, the internal combustion engine, radio, T.V., telephones, computers, the internet, cell phones or Pringles.

[Engorgeous George 1,154]

26 minutes ago, MTSkiBum said:

 

An electric vehicle smart grid actual stabilizes the grid. Peak demand is during the day whereas cars would mostly charge at night.

 

They could even feed back into the grid during the day if we had a large enough network of electric cars.

So ... an emergency broadcasting system on our phones goes out.  "Citizens, California and New York are experiencing rolling blackouts.  There is an air conditioning emergency.  Stop what you are doing.  Hold all commerce. Go to your e.v.'s now and plug them in to dump energy back into the grid.  When the instability is rectified you will be able to charge your vehicles and resume your activities, presuming the surge in the need for charging does not again disrupt the grid. We apologize for the inconvenience from this emergency.  You should be able to resume your normal activities, including picking up your kids as soon as the sun goes down."

[MTSkiBum 1,593]

12 minutes ago, listen2me 23 said:

I stand corrected.   Why can't they fix the grid as is now?  Impossible?

 

From my understanding the majority of the problem with California's grid is not the amount of electricity that they can produce, but rather their transmission lines cause a fire risk in some conditions. A few years ago they started a really expensive fire and their solution to it the last few years has been forced brownouts in areas at high risk of them starting a fire due to aging power lines.

 

Utilities may temporarily turn off power to specific areas to reduce the risk of fires caused by electric infrastructure. This action is called a Public Safety Power Shutoff (PSPS) or “de-energization.”

https://www.cpuc.ca.gov/psps/

[patweisers44 697]

Plenty if good reasons why EV will be a clusterfock for a long time listed above.  In addition, They are also much heavier than traditional vehicles. Who knows what effect this will have on infrastructure (roads, etc) as well as insurance rates. The average accident will be more devastating with EVs involved. 

[MTSkiBum 1,593]

7 minutes ago, Engorgeous George said:

So ... an emergency broadcasting systyem on our phones goes out.  "Citizens, California and New York are experiencing roling blackouts.  There is an air conditioning emergency.  Stop what you are doing.  Hold all commerce. Go to your e.v.'s now and plug them in to dump energy back into the grid.  When the instability is rectified you will be able to charge your vehicles and resume your activities, presuming the surge in the need for charging does not again disrupt the grid. We apologize for the inconvenience from this emergency.  You should be able to resume your normal activities, including picking up your kids as soon as the sun goes down."

 

It sounds like you have not read about this technology. I suggest the below article, it provides some details without being too technical.

@seafoam1 as well

https://www.automotiveworld.com/articles/electric-mobility-articles/smart-grids-are-the-ev-fuel-of-the-future/

Quote

Adding network intelligence to the grid

Adding more capacity might help with peak electrical demand, but powering a future where EVs could eventually outnumber internal combustion engines will require smarter grid technology. Getting to a more intelligent grid means adding reliable cellular connectivity to grid infrastructure and leveraging Internet of Things (IoT) sensors, which can help unlock new energy management possibilities like intelligent demand response—better balancing the load during peak EV charging periods and even automatically shifting non-essential loads from periods of peak demand to other times of the day—and the aforementioned DERMS.

Powered by modern high-speed data networks, DERMS allows real-time communication and control across the batteries, solar panels, and other devices that normally lie behind the meter and outside grid operators’ direct control.

A DERMS gives utility operators dealing with decentralised energy sources a way to streamline the management of energy production, ultimately making electricity prices more predictable and power distribution more reliable. But where it really becomes interesting is pairing that energy-management intelligence with the combined storage capacity of all the EVs on the road.

Transforming the grid model with EVs

A smarter grid done right, in seamless communication with connected EVs, could completely change the way electric energy is stored, managed, and distributed, opening the door to a bi-directional charging economy. Because a DERMS relies on both IoT sensors and receivers to facilitate network-wide coordination, infusing the grid with the intelligence of a modern data network, EVs can become a key part of any distributed energy network, oscillating between taking from and replenishing the grid as needed.

Imagine the benefits of a connected, intelligent energy management solution for EVs as an innovative way to store and redistribute energy reserves. Electric school buses could be used as batteries as they sit unused during summers and school breaks, storing energy and distributing it back into the grid during heat waves. Fleet operators could repurpose their idle vehicles and supply energy to the grid during peak demand. Homeowners, too, can enjoy the benefits by powering their homes with their EVs if needed during a power outage.

 

 

[DonS 3,063]

Charging EVs overnight at home is a reasonable solution if you are a homeowner.   What about people that live in apartments which don't have access to overnight charging? 

[thegeneral 1,383]

1 minute ago, Engorgeous George said:

If they afe indeed a better product we do not need to be pushed towards it.  Instead we will affirmatively seek it out.  We did not need to be pushed to adopt electric light, indoor plumbing, refrigeration, airconditioning, innoculations, antibiotics, the internal combustion engine, radio, T.V., telephones, computerrs, the internet, cell phones or pringles.

You covered a lot there. Some of those things are considered for the good overall as a community.

EV’s in particular cost and infrastructure are the biggest hurdles. Oil has been subsidized for decades so why not this industry? 

[Bert 1,087]

28 minutes ago, MTSkiBum said:

 

An electric vehicle smart grid actual stabilizes the grid. Peak demand is during the day whereas cars would mostly charge at night.

 

They could even feed back into the grid during the day if we had a large enough network of electric cars.

True but most of California's new generation is solar and wind which have very low out put at night.  The biggest problem for California, specifically, and the US is infrastructure.  Crappy antiquated power lines and not nearly enough of them.    

[Strike 3,948]

5 minutes ago, DonS said:

Charging EVs overnight at home is a reasonable solution if you are a homeowner.   What about people that live in apartments which don't have access to overnight charging? 

We don't need to worry about them.  They only make up 35% of the U.S. population. 

[Bert 1,087]

3 minutes ago, thegeneral said:

Oil has been subsidized for decades so why not this industry? 

Oil and natural gas can be stored and used when needed?

[MTSkiBum 1,593]

5 minutes ago, DonS said:

Charging EVs overnight at home is a reasonable solution if you are a homeowner.   What about people that live in apartments which don't have access to overnight charging? 

That is a major issue. EV's currently make sense for a family with 2 cars living in a house.  

[lod001 1,235]

1 hour ago, bostonlager said:

Unless they create batteries that can be fully charged in less than 5 minutes, no thanks. Too much of an inconvenience. 

Exactly. All you have to do is sit at a gas station at a major intersection for 15 minutes or so and watch how many vehicles go thru it. There's not enough room to charge that many vehicles.

Idiots will say, "well they should have charged it up before they went anywhere."

There is a place for some electric vehicles but the whole country? Laughable.

[thegeneral 1,383]

3 minutes ago, Bert said:

Oil and natural gas can be stored and used when needed?

It has taken decades to develop this tech, in my view investing in EV infrastructure is worth it.