EV Vehicles - Will They Work Here

[thegeneral 1,409]

10 minutes ago, DonS said:

Charging EVs overnight at home is a reasonable solution if you are a homeowner.   What about people that live in apartments which don't have access to overnight charging? 

Start dropping these in apartments as they are built. These are the types of things that take a long time and planning.

[Strike 3,974]

1 hour ago, bostonlager said:

Unless they create batteries that can be fully charged in less than 5 minutes, no thanks. Too much of an inconvenience. 

I noted in another thread on this topic, over at FBG's, that the other issue besides how long it takes is that, with a gasoline vehicle we often push how close to empty we're willing to get because we know if we run out of gas we just have to get to a gas station and bring the gas back to the car with us.  With an EV, we're going to be much more hesitant to push the limits of range because if the vehicle runs out of energy it's going to be much more difficult to resolve the situation.

[Engorgeous George 1,170]

20 minutes ago, MTSkiBum said:

 

It sounds like you have not read about this technology. I suggest the below article, it provides some details without being too technical.

@seafoam1 as well

https://www.automotiveworld.com/articles/electric-mobility-articles/smart-grids-are-the-ev-fuel-of-the-future/

 

I was just having a bit of fun.  i agree this could work.  All it would take is all Americans to cooperate.  Which is to say it is unlikely to work, but it could.  Me, I will always have a gas vehicle during my lifetime.  Likely I will own an electric vehicle for my wife. I will likely adopt an electric assist bike for short trips. (Currently I ride a traditional bike for  short trips.  I also use it for communting the 12 miles to work and the 12 miles back four days a week from may to mid-October.  The fifth day I take my truck to drop off and pick up supplies to make my bike commute more convenient.  still, as I age I will want the electric assis, likely.  i have already looked into it.)

 

I also support complete rethinking of our transportation devices.  Traditional cars, trucks, SUV's and e.v.'s are wasteful in size and weight for 90% of their use.  We could make plastic and carbon fiber one person occupancy vehicles for communting which would be cost effective and very fuel effective.  These vehicles could run in their own dfedicated lanes, like bike lanes now.  I picture them being egg-shaped, about half the size of an old Volkswagon Beetle, with four tires basically the size of mountain bike tires.  Basically smaller than golf carts.  They would cause less wear and tear on roadways and would work great in some applications.  I am unclear how they would operate in heavy snow.

[Strike 3,974]

2 minutes ago, thegeneral said:

Start dropping these in apartments as they are built. These are the types of things that take a long time and planning.

You gonna build a charging station for every apartment?  Because, as someone who HATED living in an apartment with shared laundry rooms, I can tell you a lot of people aren't going to want to worry about whether they can get a charger or not.

[Bert 1,091]

They have been working on storing electricity for more than a few decades and have made marginal progress.   

[lod001 1,237]

1 minute ago, MTSkiBum said:

That is a major issue. EV's currently make sense for a family with 2 cars living in a house.  

Got to love the 'solutions'. These were from googling it a year or so ago. They deleted them since because they realized how stupid the 'solutions' were.

1. One solution for EV apartment charging is finding a DC Fast Charger (DCFC) station or supercharging station near your home.  you can charge your EV in around 1 hour at these locations. Double  Hours of your life spent charging your EV as I drive past in my gas car.

2. Install an EV Charging at Your Apartment. Yeah they are gonna do that for ya!!  Then raise your rent. FL & CA will allow you to do it at you expense. 

3. Take turns charging on one of the 2 stations at your apartment complex. Your slotted time is 3 am. 

4. Charge it at work. You're slotted time is X. Oh wait, we don't have enough stations or time during the day for all the employees.

5. My favorite!!!! - You can plug in through your window or something then that might be an option to you. Talk to your hoa or whoever's in charge of your parking. I want ya all to imagine cords running out of all the windows in CA or FL to vehicles. 

 

[DonS 3,067]

1 minute ago, thegeneral said:

Start dropping these in apartments as they are built. These are the types of things that take a long time and planning.

You live in Seattle so you know how in recent years new apartment buildings are allowed to be built without requiring corresponding tenant parking spaces.  I can't remember why they allowed this, but the result is that tenants must instead find street parking.  

City planners would need to reverse course on those types of decisions as well in order to require per-tenant charging stations.

Definitely a long process once other barriers are removed.

[Engorgeous George 1,170]

14 minutes ago, thegeneral said:

You covered a lot there. Some of those things are considered for the good overall as a community.

EV’s in particular cost and infrastructure are the biggest hurdles. Oil has been subsidized for decades so why not this industry? 

I am not against the cahnge which i think is coming.  I am against subsidies.  Things should make it on their own merit.  I do believe e.v.'s are being oversold as a solution as i beleive we will quickly deplete the rare earth metals needed to make this work.  instead of tensions and wars over oil we will shift to tensions and wars over rare earth metals.  We will also have new pollution concerns are land fills.

 

Still and all I do think e.v.'s are part of the future.  i recognize the battery technology of today may seem silly and primitive in ten years.  It is possible we will find a solution which will not even require rare earth metals, possibly.  Who knows?

[lod001 1,237]

9 minutes ago, thegeneral said:

Start dropping these in apartments as they are built. These are the types of things that take a long time and planning.

Sorry. That is an expense for the builder. Not happening. it's your problem not theirs and they have plenty lined up behind anyone who says they won't rent at a place without one.

They are putting in apartments all over here and ZERO charging stations.

[Bert 1,091]

7 minutes ago, Strike said:

You gonna build a charging station for every apartment?  Because, as someone who HATED living in an apartment with shared laundry rooms, I can tell you a lot of people aren't going to want to worry about whether they can get a charger or not.

And current EV owners love to steal power.  Our old parking garage had to put locks on the outlets to keep these people from stealing power.

[iam90sbaby 2,125]

EVs are gay

[jerryskids 5,204]

56 minutes ago, MTSkiBum said:

For the majority of Americans there would be a time savings, just plug in at night. The time savings from not having to go to a gas station every week more than offsets the longer time to charge when you have to stop at a charging station.

 

 

True, and I have no doubt that it is when not if we get there, but you need the charging infrastructure in place.  Look at a map of Norway:

https://www.orangesmile.com/travelguide/norway/country-maps.htm

It's basically one-dimensional -- Loop a line from Oslo up the Norwegian Sea and you've covered the vast majority of the population.  We've got a much larger infrastructure challenge here.

Mostly though I just like saying "Hygge".   

BTW, did you ever get your F150 Lightning?  If so, how do you like it?

46 minutes ago, Engorgeous George said:

If they are indeed a better product we do not need to be pushed towards it.  Instead we will affirmatively seek it out.  We did not need to be pushed to adopt electric light, indoor plumbing, refrigeration, airconditioning, innoculations, antibiotics, the internal combustion engine, radio, T.V., telephones, computers, the internet, cell phones or Pringles.

But, many of those things required investment in infrastructure, standards, etc. to proliferate, and often those investments are not realistic by individual companies alone.

[zsasz 199]

I think it's a much more politicized narrative from the Right than the Left and that will hurt acceptance....but that being said, I don't think the EV suits everyones needs in the U.S; particularly out in the Sticks.......at least for the next 20 years. 

[MTSkiBum 1,594]

Just now, jerryskids said:

BTW, did you ever get your F150 Lightning?  If so, how do you like it?

 

I did not, they essentially raised the price by ~30k. It is a ripoff compared to what they advertised when I put down a 100 dollar deposit to preorder.  In addition Ford makes you get certain packages to get the extended range battery, which I do not support. If they ever open up the extended range battery with the lower end trim I would possibly consider it.

I am trying to convince my wife to let me get rid of the Tacoma and get another WRX. The problem I am running into is she likes driving the truck around instead of her suv on days that i work from home.

 

 

2 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

True, and I have no doubt that it is when not if we get there, but you need the charging infrastructure in place.  Look at a map of Norway:

https://www.orangesmile.com/travelguide/norway/country-maps.htm

It's basically one-dimensional -- Loop a line from Oslo up the Norwegian Sea and you've covered the vast majority of the population.  We've got a much larger infrastructure challenge here. 

But, many of those things required investment in infrastructure, standards, etc. to proliferate, and often those investments are not realistic by individual companies alone.

It is much easier for Norway, but that does not mean it is impossible for us.

[thegeneral 1,409]

5 minutes ago, Strike said:

You gonna build a charging station for every apartment?  Because, as someone who HATED living in an apartment with shared laundry rooms, I can tell you a lot of people aren't going to want to worry about whether they can get a charger or not.

You start adding them to new construction via incentives. This is a long game. 

[thegeneral 1,409]

15 minutes ago, iam90sbaby said:

EVs are gay

You are gay!

[Strike 3,974]

1 minute ago, thegeneral said:

You start adding them to new construction via incentives. This is a long game. 

You didn't address the concern I raised. 

[thegeneral 1,409]

5 minutes ago, zsasz said:

I think it's a much more politicized narrative from the Right than the Left and that will hurt acceptance....but that being said, I don't think the EV suits everyones needs in the U.S; particularly out in the Sticks.......at least for the next 20 years. 

For sure. Big challenges for people with long drives.

[TheNewGirl 1,029]

47 minutes ago, MTSkiBum said:

 

From my understanding the majority of the problem with California's grid is not the amount of electricity that they can produce, but rather their transmission lines cause a fire risk in some conditions. A few years ago they started a really expensive fire and their solution to it the last few years has been forced brownouts in areas at high risk of them starting a fire due to aging power lines.

 

 

 

California also refused to update the infrastructure for the PG&E power lines; because it cost money and the CEOs of the world wouldn't get their billions. Infrastructure is old, power lines falling, sparking, whatever into dry fields. Also keeping in mind that environmentalists don't believe in cutting back kindling or other dry brush that literally ignites in two seconds. Forest lands aren't maintained (these are mostly Federal, however, you have a blue state with tons of environmentalists that don't want to trim back forests because of one species of beetle). 

Forced brownouts are just one example however, the entire infrastructure needs to be replaced due to age. There are some power lines that are being placed underground now. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_Fire_(2018)

the CPUC and Newsom suck each other off all the time in terms of money. CA ain't fixing shiiite and Newsome will continue to tout that our power grid issues are because of climate change. Because he gets more money if he says that. 

[jerryskids 5,204]

2 minutes ago, MTSkiBum said:

I did not, they essentially raised the price by ~30k. It is a ripoff compared to what they advertised when I put down a 100 dollar deposit to preorder.  In addition Ford makes you get certain packages to get the extended range battery, which I do not support. If they ever open up the extended range battery with the lower end trim I would possibly consider it.

I am trying to convince my wife to let me get rid of the Tacoma and get another WRX. The problem I am running into is she likes driving the truck around instead of her suv on days that i work from home.

 

Bummer.  I would consider an EV for my next vehicle since the bulk of my driving these days involves 30 mile shots to Mayo, but I don't imagine getting one in the next few years unless I decide I need a truck. 

[thegeneral 1,409]

2 minutes ago, Strike said:

You didn't address the concern I raised. 

There are definitely lots of hurdles to jump. 

[Bert 1,091]

6 minutes ago, MTSkiBum said:

IIt is much easier for Norway, but that does not mean it is impossible for us.

Building power lines alone is an enormous bureaucratic hurdle that can take years to gain approval. The  average review of renewable energy projects takes about 3.5 years, but there are cases in which a single transition line took over a decade to be completed – in one particularly egregious example, the TransWest Express project took 18 years to get approved, and is expected to take another five years to be completed.

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/The-US-Needs-To-Double-The-Size-Of-Its-Energy-Grid.html

 

People claim they want to electrify but no one wants power lines in their back yard.   

[League Champion 1,593]

EV Vehicles - Will They Work Here

They explode really well. 

[MTSkiBum 1,594]

9 minutes ago, TheNewGirl said:

California also refused to update the infrastructure for the PG&E power lines; because it cost money and the CEOs of the world wouldn't get their billions. Infrastructure is old, power lines falling, sparking, whatever into dry fields. Also keeping in mind that environmentalists don't believe in cutting back kindling or other dry brush that literally ignites in two seconds. Forest lands aren't maintained (these are mostly Federal, however, you have a blue state with tons of environmentalists that don't want to trim back forests because of one species of beetle). 

Forced brownouts are just one example however, the entire infrastructure needs to be replaced due to age. There are some power lines that are being placed underground now. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_Fire_(2018)

the CPUC and Newsom suck each other off all the time in terms of money. CA ain't fixing shiiite and Newsome will continue to tout that our power grid issues are because of climate change. Because he gets more money if he says that. 

California has alot of issues, which is too bad. Much of the state has a beautiful climate, they have a ton of natural resources and of course the easy access to Asia and its 4.5 billion people due to having a large coastline on the pacific ocean.

[Engorgeous George 1,170]

32 minutes ago, MTSkiBum said:

I did not, they essentially raised the price by ~30k. It is a ripoff compared to what they advertised when I put down a 100 dollar deposit to preorder.  In addition Ford makes you get certain packages to get the extended range battery, which I do not support. If they ever open up the extended range battery with the lower end trim I would possibly consider it.

I am trying to convince my wife to let me get rid of the Tacoma and get another WRX. The problem I am running into is she likes driving the truck around instead of her suv on days that i work from home.

 

 

It is much easier for Norway, but that does not mean it is impossible for us.

I like her already.

 

Mine had the same experience.  She thought she would never drive anything expect a sedan.  I few turns behind the wheel of my truck and every purchase since then she wants something bigger.

[thegeneral 1,409]

41 minutes ago, lod001 said:

Sorry. That is an expense for the builder. Not happening. it's your problem not theirs and they have plenty lined up behind anyone who says they won't rent at a place without one.

They are putting in apartments all over here and ZERO charging stations.

Tax incentives to build these: That is the route I would go.

[thegeneral 1,409]

43 minutes ago, DonS said:

You live in Seattle so you know how in recent years new apartment buildings are allowed to be built without requiring corresponding tenant parking spaces.  I can't remember why they allowed this, but the result is that tenants must instead find street parking.  

City planners would need to reverse course on those types of decisions as well in order to require per-tenant charging stations.

Definitely a long process once other barriers are removed.

Yep. True. If they aren’t building parking spaces they aren’t even accounting for cars parking. In that case street charging stations would work. But for sure EV’s aren’t currently a good option for many. 

[jerryskids 5,204]

11 minutes ago, Engorgeous George said:

I like her already.

 

Mine had the same experience.  She thought she would never drive anything expect a sedan.  I few turns behind the whell of my truck and every purchase since then she wants something bigger.

Send her my way.   

[League Champion 1,593]

5 minutes ago, thegeneral said:

Tax incentives to build these: That is the route I would go.

E=MC2

Where do you think all this energy comes from? Is there a magical energy tree? California's grid is already maxed out. 

Electric cars are NOT practical, just yet. It takes energy to make energy. 

[Engorgeous George 1,170]

2 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

Send her my way.   

I'll relay your offer.  

[DonS 3,067]

1 minute ago, thegeneral said:

Yep. True. If they aren’t building parking spaces they aren’t even accounting for cars parking. In that case street charging stations would work. But for sure EV’s aren’t currently a good option for many. 

... Which leads it back to the original point of many people not being able to conveniently charge overnight.

Certainly a huge infrastructure change is required for any of this to work, which is why tossing out mandates of not selling ICE vehicles by a certain date is troublesome. 

[TBayXXXVII 2,117]

39 minutes ago, zsasz said:

I think it's a much more politicized narrative from the Right than the Left and that will hurt acceptance....but that being said, I don't think the EV suits everyones needs in the U.S; particularly out in the Sticks.......at least for the next 20 years. 

Yeah, because the Right is the side that wants to mandate EV's.  LOL

[Engorgeous George 1,170]

The majority of my mileage the last few years is driving into the Colorado mountains from out on the plains.  i go up to ski, hunt, fish, and visit family.  round trips are typically 250 miles to 500 miles.  Often in traffic jams and into small towns with limited infrastructure.  I can get gas, but I believe currently it would be hard to obtain charging.  i presume this too shall change in time.

[Horseman 1,513]

1 hour ago, thegeneral said:

Them lying or not making it is of course possible. Separate issue from what our goals should be though.

China has increased their emissions every single year of their entire existence.  Don't be a moron.  

[League Champion 1,593]

11 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Yeah, because the Right is the side that wants to mandate EV's.  LOL

What would happen if everyone in the United States went and got an EV tomorrow? Where exactly is all this power coming from? Is the left ready to build additional nuclear powerplants throughout the country? 

Otherwise tell me where you're getting all this power? 

[thegeneral 1,409]

16 minutes ago, DonS said:

... Which leads it back to the original point of many people not being able to conveniently charge overnight.

Certainly a huge infrastructure change is required for any of this to work, which is why tossing out mandates of not selling ICE vehicles by a certain date is troublesome. 

If they don’t make goals there won’t be some magic number they have to sell IMO. They will just change the numbers. 

[thegeneral 1,409]

Just now, League Champion said:

What would happen if everyone in the United States went and got an EV tomorrow? Where exactly is all this power coming from? Is the left ready to build additional nuclear powerplants throughout the country? 

Otherwise tell me where you're getting all this power? 

This will not happen so why is it even in the discussion? 

[League Champion 1,593]

1 minute ago, thegeneral said:

This will not happen so why is it even in the discussion? 

California's grid is all ready over taxed. Isn't it  Newsome who's pushing for mandatory EVs? 

The correct answer is yes. 

[Horseman 1,513]

They haven't even solved the battery drain problem for using the heater or AC yet.  Anybody purchasing an EV is a moron.  

[League Champion 1,593]

BTW, my wife has a Tesla that's collecting dust. She hates it, she says it's like driving a golf cart. She'd rather gas up the Land Cruiser to drive 2 miles. But she had to have the stupid thing because her dumb arse Kunty friends all have one.