DOGE 👍

[jonmx 2,429]

8 minutes ago, RLLD said:

Not all agencies are created equal, each one faces some variation of dysfunction.

By way of example, DOT is likely one of THE WORST run organizations I have seen in government.  Everything about that agency is just bad....... gutting it would be the only way.

Conversely, NIH is better run, but as a financial problem.....that focking place is like the mafia.....and the egoes and fighting ....oh my god.....but you really cant get rid of the leadership without severely degrading its ability to serve....its a BIG problem

The adjustments will not be easy and there will be pain, dysfunction and screaming for a couple of years, but soon they will be forced to focus on their essential tasks and will no longer be micromanaging the micromanagement.  

[RLLD 4,230]

4 minutes ago, jonmx said:

The adjustments will not be easy and there will be pain, dysfunction and screaming for a couple of years, but soon they will be forced to focus on their essential tasks and will no longer be micromanaging the micromanagement.  

He simply must start with the DOJ.....the Democrats have demonstrated they are willing to abuse the legal system without restraint.   We know that across the nation there are those within the legal community are only too willing to pervert the rule of law to pursue a political outcome.   That cvnnt in NY has already announced she plans to continue.

He has got to get people in there to clean that cesspool out, day 1.

That must be the priority.

[MLCKAA 573]

53 minutes ago, jonmx said:

 

That is how I read what you posted.  You do realize our government is completely in bed with these evil corporations and our government no longer protects the people, but instead protects monopolistic corporations as long as they play ball with their elitistist authoritarian agenda. 

There’s no reason to resort to that.  You’ve shown yourself to be a smart guy and I’d expect you to be able to disagree with someone without getting insulting.  This is something I’ve lobbied everyone for and several other posters have come onboard with it.  Insults just kill discourse.

That aside, your comment above is not really related to what I posted.

[jonmx 2,429]

18 minutes ago, MLCKAA said:

There’s no reason to resort to that.  You’ve shown yourself to be a smart guy and I’d expect you to be able to disagree with someone without getting insulting.  This is something I’ve lobbied everyone for and several other posters have come onboard with it.  Insults just kill discourse.

That aside, your comment above is not really related to what I posted.

Sure it does.  You have two premises which are wrong.

1.  You assume corporations are mostly motivated by profits (true) and government motives are pure but just stupid (false).

2.  You assume that Trump/Musk want to make government operate with a business mindset (false).

My post was to rebuke your assumptions, particularly about the government having pure motives but just stupid.  The government knows exactly what it is doing, they are in bed with corporations and their motives are just as evil (power and money).  

Besides cutting wasteful functions and improving efficiency, the goal is to separate the incestuous relationship between corporations and government.  In big tech for instance, the government allows companies like Google to operate like a monopoly (illegal) in exchange for Google to censor material which the government is not constitutionally allowed to censure themselves (also illegal).  There is a revolving door between government workers and high-level jobs at these corporations.  Elimination of these corrupt relationships is a key aspect of draining the swamp which is a key part of what DOGE is tasked to do.  

[EternalShinyAndChrome 4,095]

1 hour ago, RLLD said:

While I do like the premise of this effort, they really  have no idea what they are up against here.

You would need to remove 75% of agency leadership to make an impact.  These people are so entrenched with making themselves important that they will fight ANY effort to improve.

I deal with these folks every focking day, they are miserable.....

Yep.  What's going to happen is they are going to fill the courts up with all kinds of lawsuits to slow this down or stop it from ever happening.  Or slow it down enough where a Democrat will become POTUS and sh#t-can the whole thing.

[Hawkeye21 2,399]

Why would American be against making our government more efficient?  I'm pretty sure everyone agrees that our government has been a mess and wastes a lot of money.

I don't like Trump either but, come on, this just makes sense.  Put the hatred aside.

[EternalShinyAndChrome 4,095]

2 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

Why would American be against making our government more efficient?  I'm pretty sure everyone agrees that our government has been a mess and wastes a lot of money.

I don't like Trump either but, come on, this just makes sense.  Put the hatred aside.

You're right, it does make sense.  But you see the Democrats are beholden to unions and who do you think belong to the most powerful unions in the US?  That's right, government employees.  Creating efficiency means getting rid of useless positions - that means letting people go. Democrats will kill this thing first chance they get.

[Tree of Knowledge 1,855]

3 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

Why would American be against making our government more efficient?  I'm pretty sure everyone agrees that our government has been a mess and wastes a lot of money.

I don't like Trump either but, come on, this just makes sense.  Put the hatred aside.

TDS.  

I’m glad you have taken the red pill even though it was the slow dissolving version.  

[HellToupee 1,773]

3 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

Why would American be against making our government more efficient?  I'm pretty sure everyone agrees that our government has been a mess and wastes a lot of money.

I don't like Trump either but, come on, this just makes sense.  Put the hatred aside.

It makes no sense at all. If Trump is for it then it’s automatically bad

[Tree of Knowledge 1,855]

1 minute ago, EternalShinyAndChrome said:

You're right, it does make sense.  But you see the Democrats are beholden to unions and who do you think belong to the most powerful unions in the US?  That's right, government employees.  Creating efficiency means getting rid of useless positions - that means letting people go. Democrats will kill this thing first chance they get.

They can learn to code.  

[Sean Mooney 1,983]

10 hours ago, Death said:

All of which has failed you.

Sad.

I've tried to make this point to him numerous times but the Department of Education doesn't necessarily drive curricular decisions. That happens at a state and local level. The DOE handles a lot of big picture ideas and providing equal opportunity funding to states for special education. They handle the FAFSA program which has upwards of a trillion dollars running through it. Moving those into other places is going to create organizational logjams.

Also- you have states like North Dakota that spend like 18,500 per pupil on education with 3390 of that coming from federal funding. So now you have a difference to make up. Guess where that comes out of. 

[HellToupee 1,773]

Just now, Tree of Knowledge said:

They can learn to code.  

With all the bad hombres that will be shipped back they can learn to cut grass or cook. Some of the fellas here complain that will be a problem 

[EternalShinyAndChrome 4,095]

2 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

I've tried to make this point to him numerous times but the Department of Education doesn't necessarily drive curricular decisions. That happens at a state and local level. The DOE handles a lot of big picture ideas and providing equal opportunity funding to states for special education. They handle the FAFSA program which has upwards of a trillion dollars running through it. Moving those into other places is going to create organizational logjams.

Also- you have states like North Dakota that spend like 18,500 per pupil on education with 3390 of that coming from federal funding. So now you have a difference to make up. Guess where that comes out of. 

Okay, so then it's unnecessary.  Let's get rid of it.

[Sean Mooney 1,983]

5 minutes ago, EternalShinyAndChrome said:

Okay, so then it's unnecessary.  Let's get rid of it.

I would argue it is incorrectly titled. It does more than people think it does and gutting it, replacing it, or merging it will create a lot of issues that I think people are ignoring because they see Trump doing it. I'm sure there are unnecessary employees there though- root them out. 

[MLCKAA 573]

23 minutes ago, jonmx said:

Sure it does.  You have two premises which are wrong.

1.  You assume corporations are mostly motivated by profits (true) and government motives are pure but just stupid (false).

2.  You assume that Trump/Musk want to make government operate with a business mindset (false).

I didn’t posit either of those thing, certainly not the second half of point 1.  My post clearly states a worry about corporate “values” being wholly embraced by government.

Regardless, I infer from your posting history that we’re in general agreement about many things including the need to take a red pen to federal government.  So, we’re friendlies.

[Hawkeye21 2,399]

11 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

I would argue it is incorrectly titled. It does more than people think it does and gutting it, replacing it, or merging it will create a lot of issues that I think people are ignoring because they see Trump doing it. I'm sure there are unnecessary employees there though- root them out. 

Do you think the same can be accomplished without the DOE and the amount of money that has been spent on it?  Do you think it can be replaced by something more efficient?

[Hawkeye21 2,399]

24 minutes ago, Tree of Knowledge said:

TDS.  

I’m glad you have taken the red pill even though it was the slow dissolving version.  

I have not taken the red pill and I was never a liberal.  I just can't stand the type of person that Trump is.  I've been trying to tell you all this for years.

[Horseman 2,452]

17 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

I would argue it is incorrectly titled. It does more than people think it does and gutting it, replacing it, or merging it will create a lot of issues that I think people are ignoring because they see Trump doing it. I'm sure there are unnecessary employees there though- root them out. 

@Elon @vivek   I found one. 

[Horseman 2,452]

5 hours ago, thegeneral said:

And these people all take private sector jobs? This sounds like “learning code” for truck drivers TBH.

No need to learn code. Lots of strawberry picking, landscaping and hotel cleaning jobs opening up real soon. 

You really struggle to see the big picture.   

[Tree of Knowledge 1,855]

18 minutes ago, Horseman said:

No need to learn code. Lots of strawberry picking, landscaping and hotel cleaning jobs opening up real soon. 

You really struggle to see the big picture.   

Learn to roll a burrito might be more appropriate.  The gringos at chipotle can’t do it right.  

[HellToupee 1,773]

So far not 1 guy in a dress to pacify the boyo class

[squistion 2,197]

https://x.com/AhmedBaba_/status/1856516430734172664

DOGE is so efficient that it needs 2 department heads

[Sean Mooney 1,983]

50 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

Do you think the same can be accomplished without the DOE and the amount of money that has been spent on it?  Do you think it can be replaced by something more efficient?

I will always advocate government could be smaller and I think there are places you could most likely find waste and eliminate things. As far as accomplish- I'm not sure. Again- the Department of Education covers a lot of ground from like age 4 on in the educational realm. They deal with  early pre k programs for some people. They deal with special education funding in schools. They deal with FAFSA. Title 1 grants (which is money that is very closely monitored and audited). 

It perhaps could be run more efficiently but I think that requires going into the place and looking at everything and seeing where stuff can be cut. The idea of "Let's just hack it apart and go from there" is idiotic because the roots run deep on it and it is involved on a lot of things related to education and fills a lot of gaps for states. 

[Sean Mooney 1,983]

This could go in the concern thread maybe but, I guess a concern would be "I'm worried the news will have so much comedy gold to report on they won't know what to prioritize."

Already the leaks have started with some in Trump circles saying that Elon Musk is already starting to wear out his welcome for many as he is becoming almost a comical distraction sliding into transition meetings and giving feedback on all of Trump's personnel decisions. One commenter said "Elon is getting a little big for his britches."

 

That should be easy to find out who said it despite them remaining anonymous. I'm not sure anyone under the age of 60 refers to pants as "britches."

[Tree of Knowledge 1,855]

30 minutes ago, squistion said:

https://x.com/AhmedBaba_/status/1856516430734172664

DOGE is so efficient that it needs 2 department heads

Of course Ahmed Baba and the Forty Thieves knows this is a part time advisor position for Musk.  

[BrahmaBulls 763]

33 minutes ago, squistion said:

https://x.com/AhmedBaba_/status/1856516430734172664

DOGE is so efficient that it needs 2 department heads

Do you think this reduction will have any impact on Arby's employees to get properly trained?

[Tree of Knowledge 1,855]

5 minutes ago, BrahmaBulls said:

Do you think this reduction will have any impact on Arby's employees to get properly trained?

DOE refugees may bump Squissy from drive through to janitorial.  

[The Real timschochet 6,758]

Let’s see how they do. 

I’m not going to be one of those libs who criticizes everything before it happens. Of course there is plenty of waste and bureaucracy in the government. If they can reduce some of that without removing good stuff along with it, more power to them. 

On the other hand if this “department” becomes another bureaucracy that will be ironic. And as I mentioned before its title is rather Orwellian. I was unaware of the DOGE thing. 

[TimHauck 2,858]

4 hours ago, Hawkeye21 said:

Why would American be against making our government more efficient?  I'm pretty sure everyone agrees that our government has been a mess and wastes a lot of money.

I don't like Trump either but, come on, this just makes sense.  Put the hatred aside.

Agree overall, but I imagine the million+ people who could lose their jobs might not be crazy about Elon’s plans.

[Hawkeye21 2,399]

8 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

Agree overall, but I imagine the million+ people who could lose their jobs might not be crazy about Elon’s plans.

That's part of running a business properly.  Layoffs happen and can be necessary. 

[TimHauck 2,858]

6 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

That's part of running a business properly.  Layoffs happen and can be necessary. 

If it was a Democrat proposing this I’m sure @RLLD would come in here to say “you don’t care about the people hurting”

[Baker Boy 1,699]

20 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

Agree overall, but I imagine the million+ people who could lose their jobs might not be crazy about Elon’s plans.

We are $36 trillion in debt, these people deserve to be fired.

With approximately 2,711,000 civilian employees, the US Federal Government is the largest employer in the world

[shadrap 228]

6 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

If it was a Democrat proposing this I’m sure @RLLD would come in here to say “you don’t care about the people hurting”

I doubt that.  I would raise thanks to the heavens.  I know plenty of Gov. workers who laugh at the ineptitude of the gov. & can't believe what they make in pay & benefits for doing what they do.  Oh & most can't be fired without a bunch of red tape.

There is a reason for the old saying-"plenty good for government work".  

[TimHauck 2,858]

6 minutes ago, shadrap said:

I doubt that.  I would raise thanks to the heavens.  I know plenty of Gov. workers who laugh at the ineptitude of the gov. & can't believe what they make in pay & benefits for doing what they do.  Oh & most can't be fired without a bunch of red tape.

There is a reason for the old saying-"plenty good for government work".  

Don’t disagree, but do you think Trump cares about red tape now?  

I know someone mentioned in another thread that they may have to offer people early retirement instead, but not sure how much that will really save taxpayers since you’re going to have to pay these people for life now.

[RLLD 4,230]

42 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

If it was a Democrat proposing this I’m sure @RLLD would come in here to say “you don’t care about the people hurting”

I am gratified to see this sudden awareness for the plight of people, and I welcome our liberal friends to the party.

I am a little apprehensive about this close alignment of Musk and Trump, but am willing to give it some time to see how it might unfold.

We cannot overlook how the shedding of jobs will hurt people.   There is a path, through tariffs, to offset losses in one market and deliver jobs in other markets.  The goal to reduce government is a proper one, a useful one but if not properly conducted a rather harmful one.

Now, there are simple things to chop off, ANYTHING associated with DEI must go immediately and then target the overlaps, and man......there are alot of overlaps.....wring those out for sure.

Much of "government" is contracting, so those contracts are perhaps likely to grow and with that the migration of government people toward contract agencies, which already happens.

[BrahmaBulls 763]

1 hour ago, TimHauck said:

Agree overall, but I imagine the million+ people who could lose their jobs might not be crazy about Elon’s plans.

Most of them don't do anything and have stolen our tax money for years.  

[Sean Mooney 1,983]

I find it humorous that some here think people who might be making 100K+ in a desk job are going to get fired and say "Man this strawberry picking for 15 an hour is the way to go..." 

On the tariff stuff- best case scenario- tariffs work and jobs start coming back. How long are you thinking it will take this companies to build a plant and be functional in the space? A year? Two years? 5 years? What happens to supply and everything in the interim?

[shadrap 228]

16 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

I find it humorous that some here think people who might be making 100K+ in a desk job are going to get fired and say "Man this strawberry picking for 15 an hour is the way to go..." 

On the tariff stuff- best case scenario- tariffs work and jobs start coming back. How long are you thinking it will take this companies to build a plant and be functional in the space? A year? Two years? 5 years? What happens to supply and everything in the interim?

no idea what happens.

[Maximum Overkill 1,988]

55 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

How long are you thinking it will take this companies to build a plant and be functional in the space

Two years. There are hundreds of vacant plants all over the country ready be fitted. It's not as hard as you think. 

[thegeneral 3,208]

5 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

Let’s see how they do. 

I’m not going to be one of those libs who criticizes everything before it happens. Of course there is plenty of waste and bureaucracy in the government. If they can reduce some of that without removing good stuff along with it, more power to them. 

On the other hand if this “department” becomes another bureaucracy that will be ironic. And as I mentioned before its title is rather Orwellian. I was unaware of the DOGE thing. 

At best you take a bunch of processes that have become bloated messes away and it is perfect (besides a bunch of new unemployed people). You work through all that I suppose, people get new jobs some suffer initially but eventually  money and the system has been improved. 

I do sincerely wish these two asshats luck. I’m sure they will keep us posted on all their successes.