Democrats Shutdown

[Frozenbeernuts]

Just now, cyclone24 said:

I could literally post these all day if you would like? And by each state that has voter fraud stories over and over and those are just the ones that get caught.
 

If you guys wanna hide behind this oh scary DHS is going to come get you gibberish by all means, but don’t act like there’s not voter fraud. And being this strongly against it, definitely raises more questions about why you guys are so adamant about it. 

Whoa so weird how they flipped. @Fnord don't watch the video cyclone posted. It might hurt your feelings.

[Fnord]

2 minutes ago, Frozenbeernuts said:

Just because you ignore what is happening with the voting investigation doesn't mean it's not real. Log off CNN for a few minutes. It will do you some good 

I don't watch CNN, ever. You say I'm ignoring it, why don't you provide some links for this "investigation" then?

What about you ignoring everything I bring up?

[cyclone24]

4 minutes ago, Frozenbeernuts said:

Whoa so weird how they flipped. @Fnord don't watch the video cyclone posted. It might hurt your feelings.

I could literally post one from every prominent Democrat that’s still around. Like I always say they have the least self-awareness of any humans I’ve ever met. 

[HotRod]

The 2020 election was stolen and libtards want to do it again.

[Fnord]

5 minutes ago, cyclone24 said:

I could literally post these all day if you would like? And by each state that has voter fraud stories over and over and those are just the ones that get caught.
 

If you guys wanna hide behind this oh scary DHS is going to come get you gibberish by all means, but don’t act like there’s not voter fraud. And being this strongly against it, definitely raises more questions about why you guys are so adamant about it. 

LOL at using 30 year old footage as a gotcha! Opinions change in 30 years? Politicians say different things in different eras? SHOCKING!!

Please go ahead and post them all, state by state. I'd like to see more evidence of voter fraud.  

I don't really care about voter ID laws. Pass them, veto them, it doesn't affect me. Now getting rid of mail in voting would be absurd, since it's been successfully carried out nationwide for decades. But that won't affect me, either. Doing all this because of made-up fraud amounts to voter suppression in the name of voting integrity, which is Orwellian.

[cyclone24]

2 minutes ago, Fnord said:

LOL at using 30 year old footage as a gotcha! Opinions change in 30 years? Politicians say different things in different eras? SHOCKING!!

Please go ahead and post them all, state by state. I'd like to see more evidence of voter fraud.  

I don't really care about voter ID laws. Pass them, veto them, it doesn't affect me. Now getting rid of mail in voting would be absurd, since it's been successfully carried out nationwide for decades. But that won't affect me, either. Doing all this because of made-up fraud amounts to voter suppression in the name of voting integrity, which is Orwellian.

Oh, I’m sorry. Is Obama recent enough for you? 
 

Yes, people vote illegally in elections all the time. Voter roles are not kept up-to-date like they should be. Some cities, of course liberal naturally tend to bend the rules a little bit more than conservative ones as far as allowing extra time or drop boxes pretty much anything that doesn’t help election integrity, but certainly can hurt. Act like these things are not occurring is pretty crazy to me.

And again the level of defensiveness the left is on this just makes me more curious why they are so against it.

[Hardcore troubadour]

The only states Kamala won don’t have voter ID 

[Hardcore troubadour]

14 minutes ago, Fnord said:

LOL at using 30 year old footage as a gotcha! Opinions change in 30 years? Politicians say different things in different eras? SHOCKING!!

Please go ahead and post them all, state by state. I'd like to see more evidence of voter fraud.  

I don't really care about voter ID laws. Pass them, veto them, it doesn't affect me. Now getting rid of mail in voting would be absurd, since it's been successfully carried out nationwide for decades. But that won't affect me, either. Doing all this because of made-up fraud amounts to voter suppression in the name of voting integrity, which is Orwellian.

Why change your opinion? Minorities got dumber and became incapable of getting an id? Possible I guess. After all, democrats have been running public education in this country for 40 years. 

[Fnord]

30 minutes ago, cyclone24 said:

Oh, I’m sorry. Is Obama recent enough for you? 
 

Yes, people vote illegally in elections all the time. Voter roles are not kept up-to-date like they should be. Some cities, of course liberal naturally tend to bend the rules a little bit more than conservative ones as far as allowing extra time or drop boxes pretty much anything that doesn’t help election integrity, but certainly can hurt. Act like these things are not occurring is pretty crazy to me.

And again the level of defensiveness the left is on this just makes me more curious why they are so against it.

I agree, you are sorry.

IDGAF about Obama, or Hillary. Show me evidence of the widespread fraud being so bad we need to change the laws. 

People vote illegally "all the time?" Show me where it's ever been proven to have changed the outcome of a race. I get that there are a handful of folks that vote that shouldn't be, but to my knowledge there's never been an instance in which those few votes made a difference. If you can find the folks voting illegally, arrest and charge them. 

[cyclone24]

11 minutes ago, Fnord said:

I agree, you are sorry.

IDGAF about Obama, or Hillary. Show me evidence of the widespread fraud being so bad we need to change the laws. 

People vote illegally "all the time?" Show me where it's ever been proven to have changed the outcome of a race. I get that there are a handful of folks that vote that shouldn't be, but to my knowledge there's never been an instance in which those few votes made a difference. If you can find the folks voting illegally, arrest and charge them. 

Oh no, no no no. You said that it’s Republicans pumping this out. I then gave you video evidence You guys have been whining about the same thing for years.
Then you backtrack and said well, that’s from 30 years ago.

So then I provide you with even more recent videos of Democrats saying it’s an issue.

Now it’s I don’t give a fock about Bam or Hillary.

 

oh brilliant logic. Hey if I just steal a few things from the store, it doesn’t really actually affect anything.

What other laws do not mind breaking that you’ll justify? Lol

 

i’m never leaving this place. 

[Hardcore troubadour]

31 minutes ago, Fnord said:

I agree, you are sorry.

IDGAF about Obama, or Hillary. Show me evidence of the widespread fraud being so bad we need to change the laws. 

People vote illegally "all the time?" Show me where it's ever been proven to have changed the outcome of a race. I get that there are a handful of folks that vote that shouldn't be, but to my knowledge there's never been an instance in which those few votes made a difference. If you can find the folks voting illegally, arrest and charge them. 

What a sorry sack. You got crushed. Be a man and bow out with your head hung low. 

[Meglamaniac]

30 minutes ago, Fnord said:

I agree, you are sorry.

IDGAF about Obama, or Hillary. Show me evidence of the widespread fraud being so bad we need to change the laws. 

People vote illegally "all the time?" Show me where it's ever been proven to have changed the outcome of a race. I get that there are a handful of folks that vote that shouldn't be, but to my knowledge there's never been an instance in which those few votes made a difference. If you can find the folks voting illegally, arrest and charge them. 

What was it your were saying about people not accepting facts when they are presented to them?  Oh yea, this

 

"There are a lotta folks here that really dislike being told facts that run contrary to their partisanship. They like to misconstrue that dislike with dislike of the poster presenting them. Decades of RWM media consumption and a single decade of cockwomble have trained them well."

[Fnord]

1 minute ago, cyclone24 said:

Oh no, no no no. You said that it’s Republicans pumping this out. I then gave you video evidence You guys have been whining about the same thing for years.
Then you backtrack and said well, that’s from 30 years ago.

So then I provide you with even more recent videos of Democrats saying it’s an issue.

Now it’s I don’t give a fock about Bam or Hillary.

 

oh brilliant logic. Hey if I just steal a few things from the store, it doesn’t really actually affect anything.

What other laws do not mind breaking that you’ll justify? Lol

 

i’m never leaving this place. 

LOL. Sorry, I guess I should have said it's Republicans pumping this out today. Didn't realize I needed a qualifier that I wasn't talking about 30, 20, or even 10 years ago. Keep being obtuse and defending yourself with whatabouts, though. It's part of your charm.

As for your equivalence with shoplifting, I already said you should prosecute people found illegally voting. I know you understand that there is not a single "system" in this country that doesn't involve some level of fraud. Let's explore how cockwomble handles:

Tax fraud: reduce enforcement of it by cutting IRS funding and enforcement.

Governmental fraud: Fire 75% of the IGs, remove whistleblower protections, instruct gov't agencies not to comply with the Governmental Accountability Office, remove independent leadership at the Office of Special Counsel and Office of Government Ethics.

Corporate/private fraud: Fire a bunch of prosecutors, then reassigned most of the remaining to immigration cases and away from white collar crime and domestic terrorism.

Yet, his solution to "voter fraud" (not a major proven problem) is to change voting laws to increase his own personal oversight. 

Keep in mind that everything above is being challenged in court, as it appears pretty much all of it was done... illegally! Shocking, I know.

Aren't you supposed to be posting me a state-by-state accounting of all the voter fraud investigations? The ones that are going to justify this absurdity? Up and at em, kiddo.

[Fnord]

21 minutes ago, Meglamaniac said:

What was it your were saying about people not accepting facts when they are presented to them?  Oh yea, this

 

"There are a lotta folks here that really dislike being told facts that run contrary to their partisanship. They like to misconstrue that dislike with dislike of the poster presenting them. Decades of RWM media consumption and a single decade of cockwomble have trained them well."

What facts did he present other than Dems crying about crap decades ago? I'm still waiting for all the links on the ongoing investigations into fraud that will prove how corrupt the ENTIRE election system is.

[Meglamaniac]

Just now, Fnord said:

What facts did he present other than Dems crying about crap decades ago? I'm still waiting for all the links on the ongoing investigations into fraud that will prove how corrupt the ENTIRE system is.

 I was speaking more to the bolded

"There are a lotta folks here that really dislike being told facts that run contrary to their partisanship. They like to misconstrue that dislike with dislike of the poster presenting them. Decades of RWM media consumption and a single decade of cockwomble have trained them well."

 

[Fnord]

13 minutes ago, Meglamaniac said:

 I was speaking more to the bolded

"There are a lotta folks here that really dislike being told facts that run contrary to their partisanship. They like to misconstrue that dislike with dislike of the poster presenting them. Decades of RWM media consumption and a single decade of cockwomble have trained them well."

 

??? 

I don't dislike @cyclone24 in the least, he's a good dude.

[Meglamaniac]

2 minutes ago, Fnord said:

??? 

I don't dislike @cyclone24 in the least, he's a good dude.

"I agree, you are sorry."

[cyclone24]

8 minutes ago, Fnord said:

??? 

I don't dislike @cyclone24 in the least, he's a good dude.

As are you. There’s no venom in it. We’re just chatting about it. 
 

Not always easiest to convey that in typing. Admittedly I probably come off harsher than what I’m intending.

[cyclone24]

4 minutes ago, Meglamaniac said:

"I agree, you are sorry."

Oh shiit… As much as I say on here, I didn’t even think twice about it. No worries.

 

everybody love everybody. Unless Iowa State loses here today. Then I make no promises on my mental stability.

[Hardcore troubadour]

They want something to happen knowing their lapdogs in the media will blame Trump. 

[Fnord]

1 hour ago, Meglamaniac said:

"I agree, you are sorry."

Yeah, that's a bit below the belt, but Cyke knows I'm just funnin him.

When I truly dislike someone, it's very obvious. And I usually put them on ignore.

[Frozenbeernuts]

4 hours ago, Fnord said:

LOL at using 30 year old footage as a gotcha! Opinions change in 30 years? Politicians say different things in different eras? SHOCKING!!

Please go ahead and post them all, state by state. I'd like to see more evidence of voter fraud.  

I don't really care about voter ID laws. Pass them, veto them, it doesn't affect me. Now getting rid of mail in voting would be absurd, since it's been successfully carried out nationwide for decades. But that won't affect me, either. Doing all this because of made-up fraud amounts to voter suppression in the name of voting integrity, which is Orwellian.

Opinions change? You are sick in the head and would doom this country if you got your way. Democrat politicians see you coming and they thank the gods for sending such a low state of consciousness their way. You are a gift to the profane. Don't worry, we will save you from yourself. I expect thanks when you figure it out.

[supermike80]

I am going to take the very simplistic approach to this.   I have absolutely zero issue with requiring an ID to vote.  And every argument against it is to me, a bunch of BS, and borderline racist.  I struggle to understand how any minority can happily sit still while our elected leaders tell them they are incapable of doing things the majority can.  WTF is that?

Mail in voting---that I don't think should be eliminated.   But that should be somewhat more controllable?  Not sure.  Election fraud is real on both sides......the degree of it I can't be sure.  But it's there.   I cannot support the "well it's there but it really isn't all that big" argument.  

Using the argument that if it can't be proven, then it is 100% untrue, is weak as well.   Those that are doing it, I am sure are doing their best to hide it, making detection difficult.    If it is found, at any amount, then it should be addressed immediately.  Our voting process should be believed in.  Currently neither side does.

[Strike]

1 minute ago, supermike80 said:

I am going to take the very simplistic approach to this.   I have absolutely zero issue with requiring an ID to vote.  And every argument against it is to me, a bunch of BS, and borderline racist.  I struggle to understand how any minority can happily sit still while our elected leaders tell them they are incapable of doing things the majority can.  WTF is that?

Mail in voting---that I don't think should be eliminated.   But that should be somewhat more controllable?  Not sure.  Election fraud is real on both sides......the degree of it I can't be sure.  But it's there.   I cannot support the "well it's there but it really isn't all that big" argument.  

Using the argument that if it can't be proven, then it is 100% untrue, is weak as well.   Those that are doing it, I am sure are doing their best to hide it, making detection difficult.    If it is found, at any amount, then it should be addressed immediately.  Our voting process should be believed in.  Currently neither side does.

Colorado has mail-in voting down to a science, and 99% of the population uses it.  There's nothing inherently wrong with mail-in voting, with the right safeguards.  What happened during Covid where every state basically moved to all mail-in voting WITHOUT those safeguards is when it's a problem.

[Caine Mutiny]

32 minutes ago, Strike said:

Colorado has mail-in voting down to a science, and 99% of the population uses it.  There's nothing inherently wrong with mail-in voting, with the right safeguards.  What happened during Covid where every state basically moved to all mail-in voting WITHOUT those safeguards is when it's a problem.

What problem? 
 

Like @supermike80 I’m going to take a very simplistic approach to this. Laws should only exist when there is a problem to be solved. In this case there is no problem. People have studied this issue for years and there is no evidence of undocumented immigrants, or any non-citizen, ever voting in numbers significant enough to alter the results of a single election- local, state or federal. There’s no evidence that it’s ever happened. It’s extremely unlikely that it ever COULD happen. 
So these restrictions are unnecessary. They are designed to suppress voting in general. And, given Trump’s history, I believe it is perfectly reasonable to assume that he is pushing this in order to cheat as he has attempted to before. 

[Strike]

6 minutes ago, Caine Mutiny said:

What problem? 
 

Like @supermike80 I’m going to take a very simplistic approach to this. Laws should only exist when there is a problem to be solved. In this case there is no problem. People have studied this issue for years and there is no evidence of undocumented immigrants, or any non-citizen, ever voting in numbers significant enough to alter the results of a single election- local, state or federal. There’s no evidence that it’s ever happened. It’s extremely unlikely that it ever COULD happen. 
So these restrictions are unnecessary. They are designed to suppress voting in general. And, given Trump’s history, I believe it is perfectly reasonable to assume that he is pushing this in order to cheat as he has attempted to before. 

Liar.  I literally posted an example where voter fraud was PROVEN to affect an election in your own backyard over at FBG's years ago that YOU read.  The election was invalidated and people prosecuted.    So GFY, you focking liar.

[Mark Davis]

1 hour ago, supermike80 said:

 

Using the argument that if it can't be proven, then it is 100% untrue, is weak as well.   Those that are doing it, I am sure are doing their best to hide it, making detection difficult.    If it is found, at any amount, then it should be addressed immediately.  Our voting process should be believed in.  Currently neither side does.

I always chuckle when people say well there is no evidence of fraud.  I used to be a financial auditor.  It's like saying we have zero controls over our store inventory but we don't have a theft and shrinkage problem because there is zero proof that we do.  We have no proof anything is being stolen from us but we also don't keep track of inventory.  The idea nothing is being stolen could be factually what is occurring, or that could be because you have no controls to detect or prevent it you don't see it.  One thing is for sure, if you don't have controls, you have no way to know.  

[seafoam1]

18 minutes ago, Caine Mutiny said:

What problem? 
 

Like @supermike80 I’m going to take a very simplistic approach to this. Laws should only exist when there is a problem to be solved. In this case there is no problem. People have studied this issue for years and there is no evidence of undocumented immigrants, or any non-citizen, ever voting in numbers significant enough to alter the results of a single election- local, state or federal. There’s no evidence that it’s ever happened. It’s extremely unlikely that it ever COULD happen. 
So these restrictions are unnecessary. They are designed to suppress voting in general. And, given Trump’s history, I believe it is perfectly reasonable to assume that he is pushing this in order to cheat as he has attempted to before. 

Poor Tim is so blind to the truth.

Dude is wrong 100% of the time. It's sheer comedy at this point. 

[supermike80]

4 minutes ago, Mark Davis said:

I always chuckle when people say well there is no evidence of fraud.  I used to be a financial auditor.  It's like saying we have zero controls over our store inventory but we don't have a theft and shrinkage problem because there is zero proof that we do.  We have no proof anything is being stolen from us but we also don't keep track of inventory.  The idea nothing is being stolen could be factually what is occurring, or that could be because you have no controls to detect or prevent it you don't see it.  One thing is for sure, if you don't have controls, you have no way to know.  

Again, the argument that there is fraud, but it isn't significant, is such a hollow point.   It's almost laughable when that's the counter.    "Ok yeah, we have seen some fraud, but come on man, it's just a little, no reason to actually try to do anything about it.

Oh and if you disagree, it is only because you are racist of course.

[Caine Mutiny]

23 minutes ago, Strike said:

Liar.  I literally posted an example where voter fraud was PROVEN to affect an election in your own backyard over at FBG's years ago that YOU read.  The election was invalidated and people prosecuted.    So GFY, you focking liar.

Not by undocumented immigrants. And not the sort of fraud this type of law is designed to counter. So there is still no reason for it. 

[Strike]

4 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

Again, the argument that there is fraud, but it isn't significant, is such a hollow point.   It's almost laughable when that's the counter.    "Ok yeah, we have seen some fraud, but come on man, it's just a little, no reason to actually try to do anything about it.

Oh and if you disagree, it is only because you are racist of course.

The other issue is people like Tim like to focus on BIG elections, like for President.  But most elections also include local issues and/or candidates.  So, the same people who may be committing "insignificant" Presidential election fraud may ALSO be committing SIGNIFICANT LOCAL election fraud, as in the case I mentioned above in my response to Tim.  If you're in a small town of 50 people a few fraudulent votes may swing the election.  

There is no valid argument against some form of voter identification.  It's just laughable.

[Strike]

1 minute ago, Caine Mutiny said:

Not by undocumented immigrants. And not the sort of fraud this type of law is designed to counter. So there is still no reason for it. 

Ooh, now the backtracking and goal post moving starts......

[Caine Mutiny]

12 minutes ago, Mark Davis said:

I always chuckle when people say well there is no evidence of fraud.  I used to be a financial auditor.  It's like saying we have zero controls over our store inventory but we don't have a theft and shrinkage problem because there is zero proof that we do.  We have no proof anything is being stolen from us but we also don't keep track of inventory.  The idea nothing is being stolen could be factually what is occurring, or that could be because you have no controls to detect or prevent it you don't see it.  One thing is for sure, if you don't have controls, you have no way to know.  

Of course we have a way to know in voting. Your analogy is, simply put, ridiculous. 

[Caine Mutiny]

2 minutes ago, Strike said:

Ooh, not the backtracking and goal post moving starts......

Not at all. If you’re going to promote a new law it needs to effectively solve a problem that exists. This one does not. 

[Strike]

Just now, Caine Mutiny said:

Not at all. If you’re going to promote a new law it needs to effectively solve a problem that exists. This one does not. 

Of course it does, and I think at least three of us have outline why it does.  But you do you, banned alias.

[Mark Davis]

2 minutes ago, Caine Mutiny said:

Of course we have a way to know in voting. Your analogy is, simply put, ridiculous. 

No we don't, because if we did you wouldn't care if controls were put in place.  In your line of reasoning there is no fraud to catch.  Yet you go to the mat trying to not have those safeguards rather than confidently stating to go ahead and put them in and you'll see I was right.  

[Caine Mutiny]

2 minutes ago, Strike said:

Of course it does, and I think at least three of us have outline why it does.  But you do you, banned alias.

Well you’re right that if this was a vote I’d lose. Thankfully it isn’t. 

[Caine Mutiny]

1 minute ago, Mark Davis said:

No we don't, because if we did you wouldn't care if controls were put in place.  In your line of reasoning there is no fraud to catch.  Yet you go to the mat trying to not have those safeguards rather than confidently stating to go ahead and put them in and you'll see I was right.  

No actually Im arguing that there are already controls in place that work just fine and the additional safeguards you’re proposing aren’t necessary. 
 

After all how would an undocumented person go about voting? They have to give a name and that name has to be on the register the voting people have. They don’t have to show ID sure but how would they even know the name and address of the person if they weren’t that person? I suppose that if somebody really wanted to take the time and effort they could commit fraud. But it’s not easy and the notion that it would ever be done in large enough numbers to effect an outcome is simply absurd. 

[Caine Mutiny]

And @Mark Davis I am opposed to these additional safeguards not only because they’re unnecessary but because in my judgment they would do actual harm. 

[Hardcore troubadour]

52 minutes ago, Caine Mutiny said:

And @Mark Davis I am opposed to these additional safeguards not only because they’re unnecessary but because in my judgment they would do actual harm. 

Becase some blacks find it difficult to get an ID?