Protests erupt outside N.J. ICE facility

[cyclone24]

More liberal performance art based in disingenuous TDS delusion. 
 

Building has been there for years, law has been there for years. Just say the quiet part….you want to ignore laws you dont like. 
 

keep that in mind

[Hardcore troubadour]

The liberal that bit the federal agent the other night outside the ICE facility in New Jersey has a prior conviction for possessing and distributing child porn.  

[Caine Mutiny]

1 hour ago, Fnord said:

Tim I don't know if you're more frustrating for the guys here that hate you or guys like me that actually agree with you regularly, but you often come off as a pompous ass, whether intentional or not (I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt).

EG is a lawyer, an old school common sense intellectual, and, I believe, a thoroughly scrupulous and upstanding dude. He has depths of knowledge of law that you cannot hope to achieve. While you may be correct in some of the above, the assumptions you made are kind of embarrassing. 

Well sometimes I am a pompous ass, lol.  But, at least in this thread (and a few others) I think that applies to EG as well. He is certainly quite patronizing and demeaning. And on this subject he’s also wrong. 

You’re probably correct to call him “old school”. As I have written a few times now, he’s too old school to accept the changes that Trump has wrought to America’s dealings with undocumented immigrants. He views ICE as legitimate law enforcement, the mistreatment of their detainees as fictional or overstated, the problems with the private prisons as status quo from before. This is all flawed thinking. EG’s experience isn’t helping him here IMO. To the contrary it’s making him assume standards that no longer apply. If that makes me sound pompous so be it; it’s my firm opinion. 

[Caine Mutiny]

I mean it’s correct that I’m not a lawyer but there are a whole host of lawyers who are extremely concerned about what’s going on in Delaney Hall. They are from the American Civil Liberties Union, they have as much or more experience on these issues as @Engorgeous George, and compared to him they are much more well-informed about what is actually happening here. This is their statement: 

https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/aclu-nj-statement-on-the-events-at-delaney-hall-immigration-detention-center

[Maximum Overkill]

4 minutes ago, Caine Mutiny said:

. If that makes me sound pompous so be it; it’s my firm opinion. 

You're Woke, we get it. 

You only say what you're supposed to say. Orange Man bad, Dems great, 250 Festivities bad, Topless Trannies at the White House good, Jan 6th bad, 2020 George Floyd riots justified.

You're essentially a clown 

[seafoam1]

18 minutes ago, Caine Mutiny said:

If that makes me sound pompous so be it; it’s my firm opinion. 

Pompous? You sound like a blithering idiot. 

[dogcows]

So… the protest has been lowkey going on for about a year. This week, some Proud Boys showed up and now violence is a big problem.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/politics/articles/chaos-engulfed-delaney-hall-once-231453299.html

Violent right-wingers making a mess of everything as usual.

 

[HellToupee]

34 minutes ago, dogcows said:

So… the protest has been lowkey going on for about a year. This week, some Proud Boys showed up and now violence is a big problem.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/politics/articles/chaos-engulfed-delaney-hall-once-231453299.html

Violent right-wingers making a mess of everything as usual.

 

Nothing was being done about anything there with the lunatics “protesting “ . But let’s blame it on the proud boys

 

 

[Maximum Overkill]

5 minutes ago, HellToupee said:

Nothing was being done about anything there with the lunatics “protesting “ . But let’s blame it on the proud boys

 

 

I watched that live. That dude needed his asss whooped! Crazy asss Liberal. 

[Caine Mutiny]

11 minutes ago, HellToupee said:

Nothing was being done about anything there with the lunatics “protesting “ . But let’s blame it on the proud boys

 

 

You do understand that when the current DOJ charges anyone on a political matter these days, it’s almost proof positive that the accused is innocent of the crime right? 

[seafoam1]

13 minutes ago, HellToupee said:

Nothing was being done about anything there with the lunatics “protesting “ . But let’s blame it on the proud boys

 

 

Good. But it should be jail for life. He's a threat to the public.

[HellToupee]

1 minute ago, Caine Mutiny said:

You do understand that when the current DOJ charges anyone on a political matter these days, it’s almost proof positive that the accused is innocent of the crime right? 

You have no problem with this guy threatening to kill an ICE agent , his wife and children after sat he has his face?

[seafoam1]

21 minutes ago, HellToupee said:

You have no problem with this guy threatening to kill an ICE agent , his wife and children after sat he has his face?

He has stated on this site that he is in full support of these liberal riots. 

[jerryskids]

1 hour ago, Caine Mutiny said:

I mean it’s correct that I’m not a lawyer but there are a whole host of lawyers who are extremely concerned about what’s going on in Delaney Hall. They are from the American Civil Liberties Union, they have as much or more experience on these issues as @Engorgeous George, and compared to him they are much more well-informed about what is actually happening here. This is their statement: 

https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/aclu-nj-statement-on-the-events-at-delaney-hall-immigration-detention-center

From your own link, it looks like the ACLU agrees with EG that Delaney Hall was a problem long before Trump.

Quote

New Jersey elected officials, including Rep. Rob Menendez, Rep. LaMonica McIver, Rep. Analilia Mejia, Rep. Nellie Pou, Rep. Frank Pallone, Senator Andy Kim, state legislators, and Governor Mikie Sherrill, have continued to call for the closure of Delaney Hall, a facility that has been plagued by abusive conditions since it opened.

 

[Caine Mutiny]

2 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

From your own link, it looks like the ACLU agrees with EG that Delaney Hall was a problem long before Trump.

 

Of course. And I agree as well.  But as I wrote earlier the point that EG misses is that now it’s a deliberate problem. Before it was “these things happen with private prisons, we’re trying to fix them”; now it’s “this is what we want to have happen because we want undocumented immigrants to be terrified and perhaps either self-deport or leave on their own.” 

[Strike]

Just now, Caine Mutiny said:

Of course. And I agree as well.  But as I wrote earlier the point that EG misses is that now it’s a deliberate problem. Before it was “these things happen with private prisons, we’re trying to fix them”; now it’s “this is what we want to have happen because we want undocumented immigrants to be terrified and perhaps either self-deport or leave on their own.” 

Oh, B.S.  Tom Homan visited the facility over the weekend, as did a GOP congressman.  They gave SPECIFICS on what they found and that things were good, unlike your side which throws out generalities and platitudes about the issues.  Just like you.  

[Caine Mutiny]

1 minute ago, Strike said:

Oh, B.S.  Tom Homan visited the facility over the weekend, as did a GOP congressman.  They gave SPECIFICS on what they found and that things were good, unlike your side which throws out generalities and platitudes about the issues.  Just like you.  

Lololol. Homan and a GOP congressman? Thanks for making me chuckle. 

[Hardcore troubadour]

If they want to leave all they have to do is ask unless they are facing charges beyond their immigration status. 

[jerryskids]

21 minutes ago, Caine Mutiny said:

Of course. And I agree as well.  But as I wrote earlier the point that EG misses is that now it’s a deliberate problem. Before it was “these things happen with private prisons, we’re trying to fix them”; now it’s “this is what we want to have happen because we want undocumented immigrants to be terrified and perhaps either self-deport or leave on their own.” 

So, the behaviors are the same, but the motivations are different?

[Caine Mutiny]

Just now, jerryskids said:

So, the behaviors are the same, but the motivations are different?

The behaviors, from what I’m reading, are much worse. 

[Caine Mutiny]

7 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

If they want to leave all they have to do is ask unless they are facing charges beyond their immigration status. 

Most of them should be allowed to leave the prison and stay in the USA after paying a suitable fine. Thank you I agree. 

[Caine Mutiny]

@jerryskids here is a good summary of very specific abuses that have occurred at Delaney Hall after it reopened in 2025: 

https://austinkocher.substack.com/p/delaney-hall-detention-center-a-data

[JuneJuly]

17 minutes ago, Caine Mutiny said:

@jerryskids here is a good summary of very specific abuses that have occurred at Delaney Hall after it reopened in 2025: 

https://austinkocher.substack.com/p/delaney-hall-detention-center-a-data

There wasn't any specific abuse listed anywhere in that article.  One Hatian that died at a hospital, no reason for why.  And the same reports of a possible hunger strike.  That's it. It goes out of its way to say ICE hasn't let any local officials in to inspect the conditions. 

WTF is wrong with you?  Every day you post links that don't say what you claim they do.  

 

And by the way, the solicitation for this facility - initiated by Biden.   

[seafoam1]

22 minutes ago, Caine Mutiny said:

@jerryskids here is a good summary of very specific abuses that have occurred at Delaney Hall after it reopened in 2025: 

https://austinkocher.substack.com/p/delaney-hall-detention-center-a-data

Rapists, pedophiles, and murderers deserve what they get. 

They don't deserve country club living.

To me, they deserve death. But that's not up to me. 

[Engorgeous George]

2 hours ago, Caine Mutiny said:

I mean it’s correct that I’m not a lawyer but there are a whole host of lawyers who are extremely concerned about what’s going on in Delaney Hall. They are from the American Civil Liberties Union, they have as much or more experience on these issues as @Engorgeous George, and compared to him they are much more well-informed about what is actually happening here. This is their statement: 

https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/aclu-nj-statement-on-the-events-at-delaney-hall-immigration-detention-center

Here is a bit of a hint timmy.  ACLU lawyers are not objective fact finders, they are advocates, and partisan advocates at that.  I had the pleasure of dealing with the head of the local ACLU, Mark Silverstein, on issues at a GEO facility and what he thought should have been the City's proper response to the conditions, as he thought them to be, and to his lawsuit.  He was a dogged advocate, but he lost decisively when we each presented our cases to an impartial fact finder, a retired Supreme Court Justice acting as  an Arbitrator.  He and I became decent friends so there was that benefit. I even agreed to appear as an expert witness for him in an unrelated matter.

 

You need to presume those folks know more than me so that you can then try to hitch your wagon to their supposed expertise and therefore trump my actual real world experience.   Try again.  The sources you look to are not reporting, they are advocating.  The lawyers and politicians are advocating for power, and the detainees are advocating for self interest, that they should not be held to account for their actions.  If they can convince the Courts their rights have been violated maybe they can get relief from the consequences of their actions.  They figure why not try since they do not get punished for their lies.

 

You may or may not be aware of this, but unfounded lawsuits by prisoners and detainees are so common that the courts have actually limited the number which may be filed in total by any one prisoner or detgainee and also those which may be filed before the lose their right to file in forma pauperis.  In short your sources are unreliable.  Unfortunately for the few grains of truth contained in the sea of lies your reporting parties find themselves in the predicament of the boy who cried wolf.  They make themselves unbelievable.

[Strike]

52 minutes ago, Caine Mutiny said:

Lololol. Homan and a GOP congressman? Thanks for making me chuckle. 

Yes, we know.  If someone says something that supports your worldview, you believe it regardless of how implausible it seems.  If someone knowledgeable says something that doesn't support your worldview they are lying.    As I've said repeatedly, your M.O. is to form an opinion and then look for evidence to support that opinion as opposed to gathering evidence and forming an opinion from the evidence.  That's why you're wrong so often.

[Caine Mutiny]

Just now, Engorgeous George said:

Here is a bit of a hint timmy.  ACLU lawyers are not objective fact finders, they are advocates, and partisan advocates at that.  I had the pleasure of dealing with the head of the local ACLU, Mark Silverstein, on issues at a GEO facility and what he thought should have been the City's proper response to the conditions, as he thought them to be, and to his lawsuit.  He was a dogged advocate, but he lost decisively when we each presented our cases to an impartial fact finder, a retired Supreme Court Justice acting as  an Arbitrator.  He and I became decent friends so there was that benefit. I even agreed to appear as an expert witness for him in an unrelated matter.

 

You need to presume those folks know more than me so that you can then try to hitch your wagon to their supposed expertise and therefore trump my actual real world experience.   Try again.  The sources you look to are not reporting, they are advocating.  The lawyers and politicians are advocating for power, and the detainees are advocating for self interest, that they should not be held to account for their actions.  If they can convince the Courts their rights have been violated maybe they can get relief from the consequences of their actions.  They figure why not try since they do not get punished for their lies.

 

You may or may not be aware of this, but unfounded lawsuits by prisoners and detainees are so common that the courts have actually limited the number which may be filed in total by any one prisoner or detgainee and also those which may be filed before the lose their right to file in forma pauperis.  In short your sources are unreliable.  Unfortunately for the few grains of truth contained in the sea of lies your reporting parties find themselves in the predicament of the boy who cried wolf.  They make themselves unbelievable.

Ahh. So the ACLU are not objective but you are? OK. 
 

you know what? You’re right. The ACLU is not objective. They stand for freedom and human liberty and American values and when they see abuses of those things they don’t look at it objectively. They fight for justice. That’s why I’ve given money to the ACLU my entire adult life. 
 

Sorry buddy if it’s a question of believing you or the ACLU, it’s not a close contest. 

[jerryskids]

27 minutes ago, Caine Mutiny said:

@jerryskids here is a good summary of very specific abuses that have occurred at Delaney Hall after it reopened in 2025: 

https://austinkocher.substack.com/p/delaney-hall-detention-center-a-data

 

4 minutes ago, JuneJuly said:

There wasn't any specific abuse listed anywhere in that article.  One Hatian that died at a hospital, no reason for why.  And the same reports of a possible hunger strike.  That's it. It goes out of its way to say ICE hasn't let any local officials in to inspect the conditions. 

WTF is wrong with you?  Every day you post links that don't say what you claim they do.  

 

And by the way, the solicitation for this facility - initiated by Biden.   

Yep, 10 minutes of my life wasted on another link posted by Tim that he didn't read.

Well actually, as you stated, the Biden part was interesting, so it wasn't a total waste.  

Quote

The original solicitation for this facility went out during the Biden administration, in the summer of 2024, despite widespread concerns by immigrant rights groups even at the time that predicted precisely the controversies that are driving protests now. During the final year of the Biden administration, ICE was busy laying the logistical foundations for the massive growth in detention realized under the Trump administration—and Delaney Hall was part of that.

Thoughts on both counts, Tim?

[Caine Mutiny]

1 minute ago, Strike said:

Yes, we know.  If someone says something that supports your worldview, you believe it regardless of how implausible it seems.  If someone knowledgeable says something that doesn't support your worldview they are lying.    As I've said repeatedly, your M.O. is to form an opinion and then look for evidence to support that opinion as opposed to gathering evidence and forming an opinion from the evidence.  That's why you're wrong so often.

I have never encountered a better self-own than this post. You have described yourself succinctly, congrats. 

[Engorgeous George]

4 minutes ago, Caine Mutiny said:

Ahh. So the ACLU are not objective but you are? OK. 
 

you know what? You’re right. The ACLU is not objective. They stand for freedom and human liberty and American values and when they see abuses of those things they don’t look at it objectively. They fight for justice. That’s why I’ve given money to the ACLU my entire adult life. 
 

Sorry buddy if it’s a question of believing you or the ACLU, it’s not a close contest. 

I know it is not in your case.  You like to wallow in your own ignorance.

[Maximum Overkill]

3 hours ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

The liberal that bit the federal agent the other night outside the ICE facility in New Jersey has a prior conviction for possessing and distributing child porn.  

Most Liberals do 

[Strike]

4 minutes ago, Caine Mutiny said:

Ahh. So the ACLU are not objective but you are? OK. 
 

you know what? You’re right. The ACLU is not objective. They stand for freedom and human liberty and American values and when they see abuses of those things they don’t look at it objectively. They fight for justice. That’s why I’ve given money to the ACLU my entire adult life. 
 

Sorry buddy if it’s a question of believing you or the ACLU, it’s not a close contest. 

Maurile Tremblay, over at FBG's, once posted a great article about the downfall of the ACLU.  Very objective, including discussions with former high level ACLU people.  You dismissed it.  Again, they support your worldview so you refuse to acknowledge that they are not the organization their reputation is built on.  

[Caine Mutiny]

Just now, jerryskids said:

 

Yep, 10 minutes of my life wasted on another link posted by Tim that he didn't read.

Well actually, as you stated, the Biden part was interesting, so it wasn't a total waste.  

Thoughts on both counts, Tim?

On the first he did list specific abuses. Sorry if you guys can’t read. What more can I say? 

The second point I already addressed. The prison was reopened in 2025 and that’s when the worst abuses have occurred- reportedly. Under deliberate direction of the Trump administration. 
 

You don’t believe it? Think I’m lying or the ACLU or this dude? Fine. Throw the doors open to investigation by Congress whenever they choose to enter not guided tours. Allow the media unfettered access. Then we’ll see. If they do that and it turns out I’m wrong great. I’ll own it and be relieved at the same time. But doesn’t the government’s refusal to do this, beyond being illegal, make you at the very least suspicious? 

[Caine Mutiny]

1 minute ago, Engorgeous George said:

I know it is not in your case.  You like to wallow in your own ignorance.

I have no desire to wallow in ignorance. Do you agree with me that this prison should open its doors to unfettered, uncontrolled examination by Congress and the media so that we can determine the actual truth of these charges? Do you agree that it’s both wrong and illegal that they have refused to do so? (The illegal part is in regard to Congress not the media.) 

[Caine Mutiny]

4 minutes ago, Strike said:

Maurile Tremblay, over at FBG's, once posted a great article about the downfall of the ACLU.  Very objective, including discussions with former high level ACLU people.  You dismissed it.  Again, they support your worldview so you refuse to acknowledge that they are not the organization their reputation is built on.  

I didn’t dismiss it. There were interesting problems discussed in that article. The ACLU like all institutions, like America itself, is imperfect. You choose to condemn it as a result (actually you most likely condemned the ACLU long before you read that article and you would condemn it if that article never existed, because you don’t strike me as a believer in civil liberties.) 

[Engorgeous George]

5 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

 

Yep, 10 minutes of my life wasted on another link posted by Tim that he didn't read.

Well actually, as you stated, the Biden part was interesting, so it wasn't a total waste.  

Thoughts on both counts, Tim?

The author wanted to concentrate on those held with federal or state convictions, and that is fine, and I will get to that, but first as to conditions generally.  The facility is designed and certified to be able to hold just shy of 1200.  The author notes its occupancy level is at  around 700.  In other words there is no overcrowding whatsoever.  Then the author wanted to note that only 10 or 11% of teh detainees currently have been convicted.  That is still 70 convicts though interestingly the article said 90.  Of the others, the author neglects to discuss how many are currently charged with crimes.  Now I know that being charged and convicted are two different matters but the conviction rates for those charged, particularly in federal courts is hovering near 90%.  The reason many of these folks are not currently convicted is that they fled when charged.  They were wanted person avoiding their day in court, their due process they claim to want after having done all in their power to avoid it.

 

No, the horror to the crowd hoping to make an issue here is that there be any enforcement of law.  They arfe out of power and cannot prevail legislatively so they trump up matters for friendly courts to recieve.  Interestingly the author noted that the fears those opposed to private detention facilities before it even opened are exactly what has come to pass, in their opinion.  I suggest they ahve imagined their fears and now believe them.  The sad thing with all of these suits and allegations is taht respoonsible oversight and correction of actaul matters gets lost in the grandstanding of local politicians who are not being denied entry because of abuses, but becasue they ahve no right of entry of the facility, a secure faciity.  As to the federal repreeeantatives, the congress people, I agree they have a right of oversight. They want to claim that right is unlimited in time and scope.  I suggest it is not.  Currently the fight is whether they have to give no notice or 7 days notice.  When the courts get around to ruling on this definitively, if they have to through congresses inaction on setting protocols;, the courts are undoubtedly going to say either 48 hours notice or 72 hours notice.

[jerryskids]

10 minutes ago, Caine Mutiny said:

On the first he did list specific abuses. Sorry if you guys can’t read. What more can I say? 

The second point I already addressed. The prison was reopened in 2025 and that’s when the worst abuses have occurred- reportedly. Under deliberate direction of the Trump administration. 
 

You don’t believe it? Think I’m lying or the ACLU or this dude? Fine. Throw the doors open to investigation by Congress whenever they choose to enter not guided tours. Allow the media unfettered access. Then we’ll see. If they do that and it turns out I’m wrong great. I’ll own it and be relieved at the same time. But doesn’t the government’s refusal to do this, beyond being illegal, make you at the very least suspicious? 

The bolded is a blatant lie.  You can prove me wrong by posting them here for us all to see.

[Engorgeous George]

1 hour ago, Caine Mutiny said:

I have no desire to wallow in ignorance. Do you agree with me that this prison should open its doors to unfettered, uncontrolled examination by Congress and the media so that we can determine the actual truth of these charges? Do you agree that it’s both wrong and illegal that they have refused to do so? (The illegal part is in regard to Congress not the media.) 

There are already inspections.  I am fine with more so long as it is not an excuse to burden the administration.  To the extent it is to refine operations or to correct matters that is fine. 

Unfettered and uncontrolled in a secure facility housing dangerous persons and or persons motivated to escape is dangerous and foolish.  

 

It is not wrong, but rather prudent that unfettered and spontaneous reviews have not been granted as security plans must be put in place.  Denying of ridiculous inspection demands by partisan media or local politicains looking for video for their next campaign commercial is neither wrong nor illegal.  As for denying Congress the right to appear without notice and to demand entry, that power is not granted to Congress but neither is it denied.  As I suggested or stated in my previous post if Congress wants to address the requirted notice protocol they have that power, if they do not the Courts will eventually be heard and will apply a reasonableness standard.  To me the Courts have indicated they believe what is reasonable is less than the 7 days in the Kristi Noem memo, but they have clearly indicated unanounced immediate entry is also unreasonalble.  As I said, I have little doubt the Courts will settle on 72 to 48 hours.  Even the most liberal of courts would certainly grant 24 hours notice so as to staff for a safety plan for the inspection.  To the extent that Congress persons , the media, or ACLU lawyers imply otherwise is the exact extent to which you know you cannot believe them.  They know as I do how this will settle out in the end.

[Strike]

18 minutes ago, Caine Mutiny said:

I didn’t dismiss it. There were interesting problems discussed in that article. The ACLU like all institutions, like America itself, is imperfect. You choose to condemn it as a result (actually you most likely condemned the ACLU long before you read that article and you would condemn it if that article never existed, because you don’t strike me as a believer in civil liberties.) 

No, you're mischaracterizing the article.   You're lying again.

[Engorgeous George]

Tell you what Timmy, I will do what you would be incapable of doing, I will give you ammunition, good ammunition to make a claim while noting it is but a single incident.  My friend, ACLU Director Mark Silverstein did institute suit against a GEO Center in Aurora Colorado.   The suit was for lack of medical care though I would phrase it insufficient or neglegent medical care.  A detainee died going through withdrawal while held at the center.  At the time I represented the City of Aurora and the Federal Government's Department of Justice Weed and Seed program office.  My clients were dismissed from the suit early on.  Still, the suit was well vetted in court and liability was established.  You can read about Mark in this following link, and in it find another link to the aforementioned case.

 

ACLU Legal Director Mark Silverstein Announces Forthcoming Retirement After 31 Years - ACLU of Colorado