Who’s fault would this be?

[TimHauck]

1 person walking a dog on a leash

1 person with a dog off leash

Off leash dog comes over to leashed dog in a friendly manner

Dog on the leash growls and barks at off leash dog and a fight ensues, one dog dies (I don’t think which one dies is important for the answer).

Which dog/owner is at fault?

[MDC]

The one whose dog is off leash.

[Ron_Artest]

Off leash dog owner always at fault.  If their dog is violent, at fault.  If their dog got attack by violent dog, also at fault because if on leash better chance of saving the dog.

[patweisers44]

Seems like a simple answer.  The pitbull.

 

Actual answer: unless i am missing something the off the leash dog owner likely bears the majority of the blame. The dogfight was avoidable if they were able to be separated.

[jerryskids]

I'd put more blame on unleashed owner.  He should have control over his dog to prevent it from approach another dog unless invited.

If the leashed owner invited the dog or was clearly receptive, then that changes.

Unless one dog was a Muslim migrant from a sharia country, then that dog is likely the problem

 

[Bier Meister]

6 minutes ago, Ron_Artest said:

Off leash dog owner always at fault.  If their dog is violent, at fault.  If their dog got attack by violent dog, also at fault because if on leash better chance of saving the dog.

 

6 minutes ago, patweisers44 said:

Seems like a simple answer.  The pitbull.

 

Actual answer: unless i am missing something the off the leash dog owner likely bears the majority of the blame. The dogfight was avoidable if they were able to be separated.

 

3 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

I'd put more blame on unleashed owner.  He should have control over his dog to prevent it from approach another dog unless invited.

If the leashed owner invited the dog or was clearly receptive, then that changes.

 

 

[Strike]

Off leash owner.  It's not even a question.  There is a reason leash laws exist.

[Meglamaniac]

Trumps

[Strike]

3 minutes ago, Meglamaniac said:

Trumps

Thanks Tim(s)

[MikeMatt]

It’s your fault. It’s Always your fault. 

[Mike Honcho]

6 minutes ago, Meglamaniac said:

Trumps

Damn it, I opened the thread just to say "The libs"...ya beat me to it. 

[Fireballer]

If this occurred on a public street in Anytown USA, owner with unleashed dog is most likely breaking a local ordinance.  

[Horseman]

25 minutes ago, Strike said:

Off leash owner.  It's not even a question.  There is a reason leash laws exist.

It's a  question.  

[Thornton Melon]

My dog had leash aggression, and she was much better behaved off-leash. We'd take her to the beach, let her run free, and she'd have no problems with other dogs. As soon as she was on-leash, she'd lunge and snap at any dog that came up to her. It was tough bringing her to the vet trying to keep her away from other dogs.

That said, it would be the off-leash owner at fault, as it's assumed you don't have control of the animal.

[Strike]

2 minutes ago, Thornton Melon said:

My dog had leash aggression, and she was much better behaved off-leash. We'd take her to the beach, let her run free, and she'd have no problems with other dogs. As soon as she was on-leash, she'd lunge and snap at any dog that came up to her. It was tough bringing her to the vet trying to keep her away from other dogs.

That said, it would be the off-leash owner at fault, as it's assumed you don't have control of the animal.

What breed of dog did you have?  Growing up we had -Zhu.  He was almost never leashed but he couldn't hurt anyone if he tried.  Fortunately, he had the most easy going demeanor and was very obedient.  

[Ron_Artest]

I run and hike with my lab off leash, he's got great recoil and rarely goes off on his own, unless he sees water, but he's trained that if we see another person to stop and get on leash.

[Thornton Melon]

18 minutes ago, Strike said:

What breed of dog did you have?  Growing up we had -Zhu.  He was almost never leashed but he couldn't hurt anyone if he tried.  Fortunately, he had the most easy going demeanor and was very obedient.  

She was a Goldador - half Yellow Lab, half Golden Retreiver. Sounds perfect, right? She was obedient, except for the leash aggression. She calmed down a little towards the end, but not enough that we could trust her.

[TimHauck]

3 hours ago, patweisers44 said:

Seems like a simple answer.  The pitbull.

 

Actual answer: unless i am missing something the off the leash dog owner likely bears the majority of the blame. The dogfight was avoidable if they were able to be separated.

I figured that would be the most common answer but didn’t think it would necessarily be the consensus, wasn’t sure if someone would try to make a self defense argument about if the leashed dog was aggressive first.  I mean we do have people that have posted in this thread that think opening a screen door is justification for getting shot, so you never know.

Fortunately has never gotten that far but I’ve almost been the leashed dog a few times.  My dog is not super great with other dogs.  There is a nature trail around the corner from my house where I take him to run, which usually is pretty sparsely populated so it’s also popular with people who let their dogs off leash.   Have had to pick him up and run away a couple times to get out of  confrontations.   They usually apologize and say something like “oh my dog is usually friendly not sure why he did that!”  One time I was coming up from behind a guy who didn’t see/hear me and his dog got scared and ran off into the woods which I thought was kinda funny.  I think he came back eventually but it took a while.

[posty]

Will you tell us the breeds of the dogs, which one was off-leash and which one died?

 

[Bier Meister]

we lost our previous dogs in January. got a new puppy in March.  he is excellent with other dogs, but has no recall. it is going to be a while until we are comfortable letting him off leash anywhere he can escape/roam.

[Ron_Artest]

1 minute ago, Bier Meister said:

we lost our previous dogs in January. got a new puppy in March.  he is excellent with other dogs, but has no recall. it is going to be a while until we are comfortable letting him off leash anywhere he can escape/roam.

Have you tried bacon?  My lab is very food motivated, we worked on his recoil every day his first few weeks, he loves bacon.

[Bier Meister]

We have tried many food items. He is even hit and miss in the house.

 

The breed is pretty independent: Shiba Inu.  Previous dog was a Shiba as well.. escape artists

[MDC]

3 minutes ago, Bier Meister said:

We have tried many food items. He is even hit and miss in the house.

 

The breed is pretty independent: Shiba Inu.  Previous dog as a Shiba as well.. scape artists

My dog is stubborn AF and I never let him off leash except at the dog park. He’d to join a wolf pack if I did.

[MikeMatt]

19 minutes ago, Ron_Artest said:

Have you tried bacon?  My lab is very food motivated, we worked on his recoil every day his first few weeks, he loves bacon.

I don’t tho k dog goes good with bacon. Now cat. Yeah. Cat with a side of bacon is the way to go. 

[MikeMatt]

23 minutes ago, posty said:

Will you tell us the breeds of the dogs, which one was off-leash and which one died?

 

Yeah curious too. Died on the spot or later from injuries ? 

[Bier Meister]

Liver treats have worked best with all of our dogs over the years

[Ron_Artest]

2 minutes ago, MikeMatt said:

I don’t tho k dog goes good with bacon. Now cat. Yeah. Cat with a side of bacon is the way to go. 

I didn't know you were asian.

[MikeMatt]

2 minutes ago, Ron_Artest said:

I didn't know you were asian.

That’s racist !!!! You don’t have to be Asian to enjoy a special breed of cat broiled and sautéed with onions as one of the apps on a puupuu platter. 

[MikeMatt]

See I’m not racist !

[Strike]

8 minutes ago, MikeMatt said:

See I’m not racist !

Of course you are.  Now you're just overcompensating.

[MikeMatt]

9 hours ago, Strike said:

Of course you are.  Now you're just overcompensating.

Don’t take 99% of the sh|t I say here seriously. 

[Strike]

9 hours ago, MikeMatt said:

Don’t take 99% of the sh|t I say here seriously. 

I don't.  Only the racist sh#t.  Be better.

[WhiteWonder]

just to play devils advocate a little bit. situation also matters. For example, if someone is walking their dog in their neighborhood, on leash, and they see a dog and it's owners at home in the yard, so they approach to strike up a convo and let the dogs interact... lets say the leashed dog attacks and a fight ensues. no death but definitely a vet bill results. Now who is at fault?  Even in the same scenario, if the unleashed dog who was approached and is in it's own yard is the one that attacks... who is at fault? Why do people feel the need to socialize and engage while out on a walk without being invited to do so? 

[WhiteWonder]

20 hours ago, TimHauck said:

I figured that would be the most common answer but didn’t think it would necessarily be the consensus, wasn’t sure if someone would try to make a self defense argument about if the leashed dog was aggressive first.  I mean we do have people that have posted in this thread that think opening a screen door is justification for getting shot, so you never know.

and this was likely your real reason for coming up with this thread/scenario?

i don't even know the context but how does this compare? how do leash laws comp to someone getting shot? Is the person opening the screen door the unleashed dog or the leashed one? 

[TimHauck]

1 hour ago, WhiteWonder said:

and this was likely your real reason for coming up with this thread/scenario?

i don't even know the context but how does this compare? how do leash laws comp to someone getting shot? Is the person opening the screen door the unleashed dog or the leashed one? 

Lol no it wasn’t the reason, I was honestly curious - I explained the background in the second paragraph that you cut out.  The bolded was mostly in response to 3x banned @Horseman calling it a “ question” - he’s who I was referring to (Ralph Yarl thread). 

And also lol at you calling me out and not @jerryskids and @Meglamaniac who added politics to a non-political thread.

The comparison to getting shot is the potential self-defense argument.  I wasn’t sure if anyone might argue that the off leash dog could claim self defense if the leashed dog attacked first.  But to your other post, IMO I would think it’s the fault of whoever approaches first.  But in my experience that’s usually the off leash dog.

[WhiteWonder]

2 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

Lol no it wasn’t the reason, I was honestly curious - I explained the background in the second paragraph that you cut out.  The bolded was mostly in response to 3x banned @Horseman calling it a “ question” - he’s who I was referring to (Ralph Yarl thread). 

And also lol at you calling me out and not @jerryskids and @Meglamaniac who added politics to a non-political thread.

The comparison to getting shot is the potential self-defense argument.  I wasn’t sure if anyone might argue that the off leash dog could claim self defense if the leashed dog attacked first.  But to your other post, IMO I would think it’s the fault of whoever approaches first.  But in my experience that’s usually the off leash dog.

i didn't say anything about you making it political.  hth

[TimHauck]

Just now, WhiteWonder said:

i didn't say anything about you making it political.  hth

I didn’t say you called me out “for making it political,” I just said you called me out.  But considering you’re the board’s biggest complainer about people talking politics here, I’d think you would have an issue with @jerryskids and @Meglamaniac adding political comments to a non-political thread.

[WhiteWonder]

5 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

 But to your other post, IMO I would think it’s the fault of whoever approaches first.  But in my experience that’s usually the off leash dog.

yes, i believe it's always the fault of the approaching party... unless they were invited. At which point, you wanted to approach, we invited you, hard to put someone at fault unless you have proof of one dogs violent tendencies or prior incidents. 

[WhiteWonder]

12 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

I didn’t say you called me out “for making it political,” I just said you called me out.  

it's your topic, is it not? 

[TimHauck]

9 minutes ago, WhiteWonder said:

it's your topic, is it not? 

Yes, but you called me out by saying “and this was likely your real reason for coming up with this thread/scenario?” But that wasn’t until after a particular poster that isn’t very good with the definition of words like “ignore” decided to chime in.

Whatever, I’ll drop it and focus on the topic.