Celticspride
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Posts posted by Celticspride
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Good post CP and Leghorn. I can appreciate people who come in here and discuss without all the other crap. A
to you both.Question for CP or any Bostonians: What have the people of Boston been saying, if anything, about , what I think, was BB's arrogance costing you at least OT if he kicks the FG as opposed to going for it on 4th and 13?
Granted I know the game doesnt play out the same if Gostkowski makes that FG, there are different strategies.
To me, his arrogance in no FG there and what seemed to be a lack of in-game adjustments, specifically to protect Brady,(which I question Dungy and the Colts on many times as well )cost you that game.
Is BB taking the heat in Boston that I feel he deserves?
People are very critical of not attempting a FG in that position. Besides the criticism of the O-Line, that's probably the biggest complaint NE fans have. I think it was a terrible decision (and obviously didn't work out), but I don't think it was arrogance on Belichick's part...I think it was a lack of confidence in Gostkoski and nothing more (reportedly Gostkoski didn't look good in warmups, despite kicking a few 50 yarders he was extremely erratic and the last time Gostkoski was on the field was the kickoff after NE scored their first TD and it went off the side of his foot and went OB)...And I'm sick of people saying "you gotta take the 3 pts" because that was far from a sure 3 pts, but still, making that FG is extremely more likely than converting 4th and 13, and I believe if Belichick had it to do over again he'd attempt the FG. Who knows though...BB would never say....Anyway, to answer your question- yes he is taking a lot of heat for that decision. He's taking a lot of heat for a few decisions- that being the worst (and also deciding to deactivate their 3rd TE Steven Spach who could've assisted in max protection sets, and also for not really adjusting the offensive gameplan when it obviously wasn't working)....
This is definitely not a game that Belichick will be remembered for, but it is what it is. The Patriots got outplayed, Bill got outcoached and he's taking some well-deserved heat. The uproar would be a lot louder if he hadn't won 3 super bowls in the recent past, but people are still getting on him....
The most surprising thing to me (as a life long New England sports fan who has grown up in a very negative, pessimistic atmosphere) is how this loss is being treated. Fans haven't been all that negative at all. A lot of disappointed people, but not the anger like you saw after many past losses....I guess with the recent success NE teams have had, we've been spoiled and its tough to get too down over a loss, but it's still strange to me....I mean I can remember fans getting much more angry and upset over regular season losses (for the Pats and especially the Red Sox) in the past....
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I guess that is what NE's SOS is for '08 then. It says the same thing in this link....http://community.foxsports.com/blogs/Dwind...dule_Dissection
I guess I can save the "NE has the easiest SOS" for '08!!
That's probably it.
Which means your previous argument is not only irrelevant, but also untrue!
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They focked other guy's wives, too?
Maybe...?
But since when is that a crime (or against the NFL rules)...If it was there'd probably be a lot more guys getting fined....
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Because someone said the Giants road schedule was laughable at best. I just pointed out that NE's division schedule was just as laughable.Edit to add: Correction, NE had the worst SOS in the entire league!!
deuce, nice facts, but your link is wrong. It claims the Pats' opposition only had 99 total wins this season...Here are the actual facts:
NYJ- 4 (X 2)
BUF- 7 (X 2)
MIA- 1 (X 2)
NYG- 10
DAL- 13
IND- 13
BAL- 5
PIT- 10
SD- 11
PHI- 8
WAS- 9
CLE- 10
CIN- 7
Total= looks like 120 to me....
So much for your "easiest schedule in the league argument"...
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Because someone said the Giants road schedule was laughable at best. I just pointed out that NE's division schedule was just as laughable.
Edit to add: Correction, NE had the worst SOS in the entire league!!
But noone was talking about the Ptriots. The poster who brought up the Giants' easy schedule isn't even a Pat fan to my knowledge, he was just making a correct observation that was relevant to the post. New England's division schedule is completely unrelated to this entire discussion.
Also, obviously their divisional schedule was a piece of cake, but they're non-divisional schedule was as tough as anyone else I believe- They played some tough competition in non-divisional games this season, including 7 playoff teams and even Cleveland had 10 wins- (Indianapolis and Dallas, Washington, San Diego, Jacksonville, Pittsburgh, Giants).
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I believe they have plans to remodel the opposing teams locker rooms with the newest state of the art surveillance equipment.
Nice! Belichick's taking a page out of Halas and Lombardi's books!!!
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Kind of like the Patriots division schedule.What does the Patriots division schedule have to do with the Giants' record of 11 straight road games?
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I'd like to see what he can do. One thing is for sure, he is one hell of a special teamer.I hope Chad Jackson is finally able to stay healthy and show what he could do... definitely could be a difference maker if given a chance.
The fact that New England traded two picks to move up to get him (one of those picks turning out to be Greg Jennings) will make it extremely tough to take if Jackson doesn't step up. Imagine how good Jennings would look in a Pats uniform? Belichick and Pioli have drafted very well but it looks like they dropped the ball on that one....
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If you are so inclined, there is a long analysis in the Globe todayhttp://www.boston.com/sports/football/patr...more_decisions/
- Does Samuel get signed? I don't think so
- Is Hobbs good enough to be a starting CB? Based on the above, he is going to have to be
- Does Harrison have enough in the tank to play another year? Probably one more year, but he is somewhat of a liability in coverage
- Are Bruschi and Seau coming back? I think that one is coming back. I just don't know which one.
- Is Colvin coming back? I don't think that the injury is an issue, but his cap number is. I think that he will restructure and be back.
- They have some definite needs at LB and DB (see above). I think that they are going to take several of each in the draft. They do have a good number of picks
- Do they restructure Brady? I would expect so. They don't want him to be a $14M+ cap hit next season
- Sammy Morris is back next season. That helps shore up the RB situation
- Moss needs to be signed or franchised. I think that they will try to do the former
- Stallworth is probably gone. He may look for more money elsewhere.
- Gaffney could be back. They could dangle the #2 spot in front of him like they did with Stallworth.
- Kelley Washington is a question mark. I think that he wants a chance to play and he has a bonus of $4m due
Should be an interesting offseason for the Patriots and many other teams.
Thanks for the link (and your input)....
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The Patriots have some major questions to answer going forward.
On offense the first step is trying to sign Moss. Eventhough he came up rather lame in the playoffs, just having him on the field allowed guys like Faulk and Welker to be productive underneath so even when he doesn't produce he's a valuable weapon and the Pats have to make every reasonable attempt to sign him. Stallworth is gone, but that's not that big of a loss. He made some big catches this year but Gaffney and or Jackson should be able to duplicate his production. The offensive line was thought to be a major strength for this team and they are all wrapped up for the forseeable future, but after sunday's game I'm not so sure that's a good thing. I still think they'll be fine, and I am a huge fan of their interior line, but Kazcur is definitely a liabilty and Light has always struggled against speed rushers (except Merriman for whatever reason), so I wouldn't be surprised to see them bring in another tackle either thru free agency or the draft to compete with Kazcur. And maybe Ryan O'Callaghan is worth a look- he can't possibly be as bad as Kazcur, could he?
The defensive line is set- Green, Wilfork, Warren and Seymour are all very good and under contract (although Seymour was a disappointment this year, so hopefully it was because of his knee injury...If not, that's going to be an area of concern)....The LBs are a huge question mark- I assume Colvin will be back eventhough his cap number is pretty high and Adalius Thomas will be back, and Vrabel will be back but he's not getting any younger and who knows what's gonna happen with Bruschi and Seau. Both are getting up there and their play isn't going to get any better (And Bruschi was already inconsistent). I'm not counting on Eric Alexander to be a productive player, so they are going to have to find some young play-making LBs in a hurry. Oscar Lua is one guy who might help, but considering his age he's probably still a year or two away from helping (and thats if he ever develops into a valuable NFL player)....the secondary is another question mark- I'm guessing Samuel is gone, and Hobbs is definitely not ready to be a #1 CB. Gay is a free agent (and shaky even if he re-signs). They have a few guys that are great nickel corners, but even counting Hobbs no solid starters (assuming Asante leaves). Harrison had a very good year but he's not getting any younger. James Sanders looked very good at times and should be able to be more productive in the future, but Merriweather is far from a sure thing, and Wilson is probably gone considering his lack of production and the fact that he was in the coaches doghouse for much of the year.
I'm assuming they'll take a CB or LB at #7 and will be defense-heavy in the rest of the draft, but with the Pats, who knows....
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Alright, now you're making me feel bad for rubbing it in. To be honest, I really didn't harbor any Patriot hate before the season. Was a bit irritated that they could somehow get Adalius Thomas and Randy Moss, but no real hate. Most of my wrath and venom now is a result of the boisterous Pats fans on this site. I'm sure not all of you are as bad as I'm making them out to be.Don't feel bad. You're not as obnoxious as a lot of Patriot haters have been (or as many Pats fans were throught the year). Honestly the fact that they seemed to buy into what the press was saying is one of the things that I found really disturbing as a Pats fan. Throughout their run they've been one of the harder workeing, blue collar teams. Early this year they were working hard and talented which made for an unbelievable run...but at some point it seemed like a lot of the Pats were walking around like they deserved all the positive press, that the championship was a forgone conclusion and they ended up getting that thrown right back at them in the super bowl.
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Great, since they were crowned many times and much earlier this year, might as well give them a title based on that 18-0 start. 07-08 New England Patriots, Superbowl Runnerup, "King of the Losers".They were crowned by many people in the media (and fans too) but usually New England's done a great job of not buying into the hype. This year it seemed they definitely bought into the hype and several times late in the year they seemed to thing they could just show up and win. They were able to overcome some of those bad performances and still win, but not Sunday.
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The Pats were flat out, out played and out coached.What else can you say? Hopefully they can do it next year.
I just wonder where the team went? Where were the adjustments? Where were their usual screens and draws? Why no "no huddle offense" coming out in the 2nd half when it was obvious a rythm needed to be established? It was like a whole new offense out there? Regardless, the giants D was playing so good that may not have mattered. In the end, great regaular season etc. but meaningless without a ring.
I totally agree. The o-line played awful, but it's the coaches job to make adjustments when things aren't working. McDaniels called a terrible game and it seemed like Belichick was more interested in coaching the defense and was barely watching his offense when they were on the field. Maybe he was overconfident in Brady and McDaniels ability to make adjustments themselves?...I don't know...But it was terrible game from Belichick right down to the last guys on the roster....You could count on 1 hand the Patriots that actually had a decent game (Welker, Faulk, Ray Ventrone, Kelley Washington and Adalius Thomas are a couple that come to mind....)
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That loss is something that the New England players will painfully remember for the rest of their lives, especially the one's that don't have any rings. To get so close to being reveared as the greatest team of all time, to being remembered as the team that couldn't finish.You're right. 41 other teams have lost a super bowl, but they are the only 18-0 team to lose a super bowl. That "choke" label will be with them forever. It's softened somewhat by the fact that they have 3 championships in recent history, but this one will sting.
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Man that one has to hurt the NE faithful...I think I would rather have gone 7-9 and missed the playoffs than to get that close to perfection and it turn into to arguably the biggest choke in sports history.
No pity here though...you guys have the World Series and possible the NBA championship coming...
And I'd gladly trade both of the Red Sox championships for Sunday's win. I watch the Sox but baseball is so far behind football, and the fact that they don't have a salary cap makes MLB a joke. So some of us could care less about the Sox...
I do care about the Celtics though. So this is one advantage new englanders have over last season.
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They did? The Giants were turning the ball over left and right, and the Pats were not, and the Giants still kicked their @sses.The Giants had 1 turnover....same as New England...
Did you even watch the game?
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Are you saying that Eli has a better team surrounding him than Brady?
I wouldn't say that but the Giants team definitely played a better game the other day. If the Patriots were able to get the pressure NY got on Brady, New England probably wins that game. Now New England's d played their usual "bend but don't break d", but they weren't dominate like the Giants d was...
But if's and buts are stupid....The Giants played a better game and that's why they're champs.
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not the first or the last stupid thing bradshaw has said.
i like how all this cheating does nothing to help win games...gee, i wonder why they do it. it's kinda like steroids don't help you hit curve ball but for whatever reason these baseball players risk so much to take them. go figure.
I'm not saying cheating may or may not help. Depends what you're talking about, but what Belichick did in the opening game vs. the Jets was of little benefit I think (even if he had gotten to see the film at halftime)....According to Jimmy Johnson, after seeing what was on the Jets tape (the one that was released to the public) he said "This is exactly how I was told to do it 18 years ago by a Kansas City Chiefs scout. I tried it, but I didn't think it helped us." He also goes on to say he used to send an intern up to the opposing coach's box after the game and go through the trash. Because after the game, what do they do? They take their game plan and their scouting reports and throw them away. My intern would get all of that stuff and put it right in the file." So based on that info, we can safely say that the Cowboys cheated in their last 3 championship seasons (Johnson just admitted to it) and the Chiefs may have cheated in winning super bowl IV? And according to Matt Walsh this practice was instituted in New England in 1996 during Parcells tenure, so does that mean Parcells used similar techniques in winning the Giants first two super bowls?
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I dig hypotheticals, and would rank these young guys as follows (under this scenario):1. Ben Rothlisberger
2. Carson Palmer
3. Eli Manning
4. Tom Brady
5. Tony Romo
6. Jay Cutler
7. David Garrard
8. Philip Rivers
I can see the Roethlisberger and Eli ranking (since they won super bowls), but why would Carson Palmer who's never won a playoff game get ranked ahead of a guy who would've gone to a divisional playoff game, afc championship and super bowl in his 1st 3 years (and set the NFL record for TD passes as well)?...
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The Patriots from week 1 to week 8 may have been the best team I ever remember seeing.The Patriots from week 9 to the Super Bowl was simply a very good team who had many fortunate things happen to them. From that point on, they may not have been one of the top three teams in ths league this year, let alone all-time.
I agree with Newbie. (except I'd say the first 10 weeks- afterall in their 10th game they beat Buffalo 56-10.) The Patriots peaked way too early and were lucky to still be undefeated after 18 weeks. They were still a very good team obviously, but far from the juggernaut they were early in the season....
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I'm not sure if it hasn't sunk in yet or what, but this loss hasn't been nearly as hard to take as last year's loss. Probably because they blew a 21-3 lead where-as yesterday the Patriots got completely outplayed on both sides of the ball. Losing sucks, but the hardest thing to accept is that the Patriots were so close to setting history and failed. They'll always be the team that had the greatest regular season ever and failed when it mattered most...We've always hung our hats on Belichick, Brady, etc being "clutch" and over the past couple years they haven't been very "clutch" at all....I'm not sure if all of the media circus regarding Spygate had an effect on my feelings for the team (while the season was going on it was as enjoyable a season as any team i've ever followed, but maybe subconsciously the latest round of Spygate accusations took some of the luster off of this team?...I mean, I'm still whole-heartedly supporting this team but if new evidence comes out that they were taping St. Louis' walk-thru and other crap like that it definitely makes you step back and wonder where you should draw the line)....Another thing that's tough to take is a team only gets so many chances to win super bowls and the New England Patriots came so close the last two seasons and came up empty.
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Had they won both he and Moss would be there.Are you blind? I stated above how Brady stated two weeks ago he wasn't going...
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Brady's post game wasn't bad, imo. But what do you expect him to do? Whine like a litty biotch? As for Belicheat, that's a whole different story*******That's my point. I wouldn't expect him to whine but apparantly others on this site would expect just that, and since to my knowledge its never happened where are these expectations coming from?
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...and Moss's ankle is?????I have no defense of Moss. Maybe he'd be going to Hawaii if they won, who knows....I don't know enough about Moss or his past (regarding attending pro bowls)...so knock him all you want...But you do realize that (like Brady) his mind was probably made up a long time ago about skipping the pro-bowl but he can't very well say he's injured (aka fake an injury) while he's still playing...I don't believe there's a penalty for doing that, but it would make someone question it....But the "injuries" that keep a lot of guys from going to Hawaii are a joke anyway...everyone knows guys just use them as excuses to get out of going...
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in FFToday Board
Posted
That's a great question. Obviously Belichick would never say anything public about his confidence or lack-there-of in Gostkoski, but the fact that he didn't have Gostkoski attempt a FG in that situation speaks volumes. If it was a 4th and 5 or 6 you could make the case that Belichick was confident (or overconfident) in his offenses abilities to convert the 1st down. But even when the Pats were going for all those 4th downs during the year they were in managable down and distances....The chances of making a 4th and 13 conversion are extremely small...Belichick's not stupid, so the fact that he went for it over trying a reasonably lengthed FG is a pretty strong statement in his lack of confidence in Gostkoski IMO...Personally I think Gostkoski is a pretty good young kicker (with one of the strongest legs in the league when it comes to kicking off which is huge in a game of field position), but based on the Super Bowl I wouldn't be surprised if the Patriots brought in a kicker next summer to compete with Gostkoski. I think Gostkoski will still be the Pats kicker next year but I don't see how he can be too secure in his job based on how he's been used (or under used) by Belichick this year....