Oriole8159

Update: The team that was in first that traded for Agholar/Stewart is now down to 4th The team that was in 9th that got Murray/Allen is now up to 5th (and may be the best overall team in the league now) They play each other this week and winner gets the last playoff spot Lesson here kids...Don't get cute, especially when you're winning in spite of your top players underperforming.

yeah we're very happy, but after so many monumental collapses we're not close to getting confident yet.

I'm a Minnesotan, so I also know all too well about eternal optimism. We're still pining over the 1991 Twins. If anything though, it should be fun watching Cle try to fill this out. Best of luck to you guys.

For your sake I hope you're right. And I know that Wentz wouldn't be an MVP candidate on the Browns, but he doesn't have to be to show that he's an up and coming franchise talent. The article I referenced above talked about how Hue was blown away by Wentz' mental game and how quickly he became an expert during their predraft visit on the playbook that Hue threw at him. It then went on that Hue was live at Wentz's pro day and was blown away...and they still passed on him. I know he wouldn't look the same, but he should have still been able to develop to the point that you can tell that the spark is there...and if they couldn't develop a prospect like that, then why should people be confident they can develop the other guy they eventually draft? I looked up the contents of the trade as well as of today, and it's Corey Coleman, Shon Coleman, Cody Kessler, Ricardo Louis, Derrick Kindred, Jordan Payton, Spencer Drango, Jabril Peppers, Deshone Kizer, Hou's first and Philly's 2nd. Not much to show two years later with the picks they've actually made. And you talk like its so easy to get a shutdown corner in the draft, but the success rate to become an actual "shutdown" corner is quite low and the ones that do, most often take a few years to get acclimated to the league. Acquiring assets is fun and all, but I'm just nervous that they'll be able to actually hit on enough to make it worth all this. Remember that the previous regime in Cle got a boatload of picks in the Julio Jones trade and hit on none, and the Rams got a boatload of picks from the RG3 trade and only have a few left over, with only one in my opinion (Ogletree) being a difference maker. You know more than I do so I'll defer to your optimism, but I'm just not convinced they have enough football acumen in that front office to make them a legitimate SB contender at any point.

I'm first place, playing the 1-11 team...and lose 139-124. and we're a low scoring league, so even putting 124 is a big deal. Got nothing even to be upset about; sometimes that's life in fantasy.

one time you could give them a pass. however... they think Cody Kessler is worth a 3rd rd pick they pass on Deshaun Watson the next year they use a 2nd on Deshone Kizer instead. they were prepared to trade a 2nd and a 3rd for a rental of AJ McCarron (and that's not even counting paying Osweiler over $10 million for essentially a 2nd rd pick) it's not just passing on Wentz, it seems to be a complete inability to evaluate the QB position. that's my overall point. and I agree that if you do actually take a QB high that you need to surround him with talent to help him maximize his potential, but there's a novel approach to that that some people forget about it...it's called not starting the guy immediately and letting him learn the position. that way you can take him along slowly and help him learn the position before putting the weight of the franchise on his shoulders. since the front office was hired in such a novelty manner, you'd think they'd be comfortable in their job security to be able to draft a QB early and decide to not play him until they have the infrastructure in place for him to succeed. You don't hire a front office like that without giving them a lot of slack and without buying into their long term plan, so if the long term plan involved drafting and sitting Wentz, they should have been able to sell that to Cleveland. Considering Haslem has been a loser owner forever and the Browns fans have been loser (yet weirdly loyal) fans forever, I doubt there would be any cry for mutiny. It just seems like they missed is how I choose to interpret it.

I don't know, but to be honest, I don't think the presence (or lack of) Eli will be the driving force behind how the ownership presents the job, nor the reason why a candidate takes the job. If he's there, then he can be a great mentor to the young guy they pick early, while still perhaps remaining competitive when they get healthy and refocus under the new regime. If he's not, then the new regime can take and develop a new young QB and know that the expectations for winning in the short term aren't as pressing. Now retaining Eli and not taking a QB early to try and bandage together one more run would be a mistake.

I think a lot could be attributed to the coaches losing the players, and that a newer and better staff could pull back into the fold a lot of these guys. In a vacuum at least, guys like JPP, Vernon, Jenkins, DRC, Harrison all have the ability to lead teammates in the right environment, and add that to promising young guys in Collins, Apple, Kennard and Thompson, and there's a lot to work with. Does that make more sense?

I'm aware of that, but at least having a QB in place is such an advantage. But the bigger question is the statements that "I think the hardest part, and where we have to stay the most disciplined, as much as you want a player, you can't invent him if he doesn't exist" and that "even though you have a desperate need for one, you have to resist the temptation of taking that guy just because you have a need if you don't believe he's one of those 20 guys at the end of the day." That's their GM saying that they didn't see Wentz as a Top 20 guy and that selecting him would be akin to inventing him as a franchise player. That's the same logic I'm sure that dictated passing on Watson this year. Their leadership clearly has a problem identifying QB talent, yet they're most likely going to have to make that call this offseason anyway. Thus my problem with them is not that they necessarily passed on them, but they flat out were wrong with their analysis. And if they were so wrong on those two, why should people think they should be equipped to decide which of this year's prospects is the right selection for them to finally cash in on?

I won't draft Melvin Gordon in the first 3 rounds next year. And I didn't own him this year but did last year, couldn't see myself drafting Dez Bryant either unless a super late bargain.

in Taylor's defense, I will say that if you drafted Taylor and only Taylor as your QB, then that's on you. There should have been ample opportunity to hedge your bet with any of Rivers, Cousins, Wentz, Stafford, Alex Smith, Goff, etc. Later in the year you could have gotten Watson for a even few weeks when he was healthy, or now McCown or Keenum. You did not lose your league because you drafted Tyrod Taylor.

It's still going to be a very attractive job. In addition to just the obvious of being in NY, they've got a good group of strong veteran leaders (especially on defense), they'll get back OBJ, they have a huge young weapon in Engram, and they'll have a high pick in a draft "loaded" with potential franchise QBs. They have the recipe in place at least for a very quick turnaround.

I don't follow the team enough to know who's to blame, but you seem to have some knowledge, so I don't mean to argue. I've been in management for a long time though, and I can just tell that there is issues with how that front office seems to be handling their business. Sure they've accumulated a lot of draft assets, but I'm not confident that they can convert those assets into actually productive football players...especially at the QB position.

I'm a Gronk owner and I have Greg Olson on the bench. Should I roll with Olson, or pickup... Brate H Henry Seals-Jones

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/hue-jackson-reportedly-wanted-carson-wentz-browns-didnt-think-hed-be-a-top-qb/ just found this article posted 5 hrs ago saying it was the FO that passed on Wentz even though Hue Jackson was in love with him... So why didn't the Browns pull the trigger on Wentz? The Browns' front office, which includes a former Dodgers general manager and an analytics-based approach to roster building, didn't deem Wentz worth the risk. "I think the hardest part, and where we have to stay the most disciplined, as much as you want a player, you can't invent him if he doesn't exist,'' Browns front office executive Paul DePodesta told ESPN before the '16 season. "In a given year, there may be two or three NFL-ready quarterbacks at the college level. In another year, there literally may be zero. There just may be not be anybody in that year who's good enough to be a top 20 quarterback in the NFL. "Even though you have a desperate need for one, you have to resist the temptation of taking that guy just because you have a need if you don't believe he's one of those 20 guys at the end of the day. I think that's the hardest part, just maintaining your discipline because you have the need. That's what we did [in 2016]." Those are the same guys that passed on Deshaun Watson last year, and those are the same guys that will be most likely picking their "QB of the future" finally this year; and in a year where there's plenty of first round talent but no sure fire consensus top guy, that's a recipe for disaster potentially.

so which was the one who decided to pass on Wentz and Watson? also, if that is the case, why is a a head coach that was fired immediately after his only season as HC in Oak being given that much pull? and if that is true on the McCarron deal, why sabotage a deal at all when you're the boss and you can just say no? Looking incompetent is no defense. I admit, I don't know all the details and you seem to know what you're talking about, but there's still so many questions that I have. Whether they're the ones actually making the evaluations, or they're the ones having no idea how to run the politics of an NFL front office, it just seems like there shouldn't be any faith in these guys.

It's not the coach that's the problem, it's the front office. 2 years ago trades out of the #2 spot to get Carson Wentz, and wastes a 3rd rd pick on Cody Kessler Last year trades out of the #12 spot to get Deshaun Watson, and wastes a 2nd rd pick on Deshone Kizer. Agreed to a way above market trade for AJ McCarron, but got bailed out on their own idiocy. Even with them most likely getting the #1 pick and it being a deep QB draft, I doubt they pick the right guy anyway if they were so far off on Wentz and Watson already, and thought that Cody Kessler was worth a 3rd or a half season+rights of McCarron was worth what they agreed to.

I disagree. 1) Explain Brady and Deflategate then? The fans could have cared less about that, yet Goodell spent 2 years it seems like trying to get that to stick. 2) Explain Zeke. They had a built in out when the only investigator (a black women as well) that actually met with the victim didn't believe her and recommended zero punishment. If they were just about the money, why would they go above her and push so hard for 6 games still?

I thought it was funny

thanks. After seeing Booker just look awful in the noon game yesterday, I decided to do the drop at every time slot to see if I could catch lightning in a bottle and find someone worth keeping before they become a must own next week. 3PM game I dropped Booker for Seals-Jones SNF game dropped Seals-Jones for Mike Davis Was prepared to drop Davis for James Conner tonight if Davis didn't look the part. Looks like I'll be keeping Davis.

I picked up Mike Davis before the game last night. Didn't watch the game but saw he had a good(ish?) stat line and that was on the field for a ton of plays, so I'll take that. Anybody that watched the game have some more insight?

who do I flex? McKinnon @ Atl: proj. 7.77 pts Henry vs Hou: 8.28 pts

good catch. I was writing my points while at work today so was working mostly on memory, so thanks for taking the time to find those.

I am aware of that, but certain players do raise their games in clutch situations and some don't. but when a guy raises his game and twice helps take down the biggest dynasty in football, which one year includes probably the best overall pure team ever, then that counts for something.

fair enough.