RLLD

Why lie and pretend I did not source my position? Why not talk thoughtfully on the subject? Why use this cultist behavior to avoid the conversation?

According to Beauvoir the problem is that they will not choose in line with feminism, and will instead make choices that either pull them out of the career path or focus them into specific career paths; as we observed with the Nordic experiment. So in the end both women were correct. If we do decide to let women choose and not try to coerce them into areas.....then we will have the Nordic model, and women will not choose in a way that creates the notion of "equity", but we need to not blame that outcome on society any more.....

I am not sure what the measure might be, but I am willing to consent that a significant portion of women do choose careers.....and also that this does not really fulfill them.... That is why we can observe these changes in career pursuits in their 30's......modern feminism suggests that they can and will find happiness in a career instead of the natural experience of being a mother.....I submit that the feminists are likely wrong....

I am asserting that the inclination of feminism to assert/insist women want the same things as men is fatally flawed. I agreed with Friedan that women should have a choice......and I agree with Beauvoir that if we give them the choice they will NOT choose in a manner that increases their integration into careers; more pointedly an equitable distribution into careers. Women are being sold a lie, that what they really want is a career and not a family, then later when they start to sense they want something different they are in a crisis.....

To be clear my study was more focused on choices overall and did not delve so much into career vs family so much as women will make choices that feed their desires; and their desires do not confirm to the stances around modern feminism at all.....

One can actually find studies that depict it both ways. And there are even studies that suggest woman are happiest when not married, or living with anyone. So, lets allow the studies to stand for themselves. And step away from it. And instead, let women choose for themselves what they want most. Sadly women have a disadvantage in this scenario. As women reach their 30's the career focus tends to give way to that built-in desire for a family. But the problem then is time, right now mid-30's is considered high risk for pregnancy. The window for women in terms of family is simply more constrained than it is for a man. I have seen attempts to reframe these decisions by women such as those who seem to depart law firms in their 30;s misconstrued as some form of problem with how women are treated, which is simply not true....its the natural pull for women that is built deeply into their DNA My wife was absolutely committed to a career, but then in her late 20's a shift emerged.....she wanted a family and she wanted to be home with the kids....it was remarkable, and she was not alone as it was happening in tandem with all her friends. We have to stop pretending to understand what women want, and/or insist that be what we think they should, and just let them pick. And later, when some study shows this glaring disparity we need to accept that its not a societal flaw....its a societal positive.

It might be wrong to do that, but he is not exactly wrong either. This for the same reason that Mao could not create a new human and the Russians could not reimagine humanity.... Our nature leads us toward our happiness, and there is merit toward the notion that a career will not fulfill a woman as much as a family. That is why when given full and uncoerced choices, women choose along the lines of the deep programming that has ensured human success. There will be some women who find that sense of fulfillment in a career vs a family, but the majority will not..... I think that is true and I think there is enough content and data out there to corroborate this. The driver behind this discussion is the misguided notion that women would be more plentiful in careers if not for men....when in reality their own choices were as impactful as any other of the variables in play.

Right now its a figurehead in the form of Joe Biden, but in reality its Obama and his actions behind the scenes. The beauty of the design is that its now simply in place. When someone dares to stand up to the insanity that arises from the left they know very well that they face cancellation. So if you are say.....Kanye West, you can say as much crazy as you want....so long as you are impugning the right people, once you start straying outside the lines of the cult....you become a target. No one was cancelling West when he was laying into conservatives....only when he appeared to be cozying up to conservatives did we observe a move to shelve the man.... These are your people, you need to step up and help them.....they really need to stop this kind of behavior or we might one day see terrorists in our institutions supporting anti-Semitism.. nazi-style

You are on the side of Friedan, as am I....... That is not to say that de Beauvoir was "wrong" so much as perhaps.....misaligned..... like when she stated...."women should not be offered the choice of staying home to raise children, 'precisely because if there is such a choice, too many women will make that one. It is a way of forcing women in a certain direction." I submit that her point, at the time, was more along the lines of needing to "break the cycle" and women needed to be compelled more at that time which sorta makes sense I think..... but then it becomes more difficult to explain this What is being missed, in some cases, is that we have some deep programming.....down to our DNA. We are evolved by the past we will gravitate toward roles..... naturally. Society is not dictating gender roles....society is a product of our deep programming

These women from 50 years ago had a great debate, that the truths which were evident then....or even 100 years ago remain true is not the question here. As my link toward those nations who are the most egalitarian have shown, de Beauvoir was correct in her stance that given the choice women will choose in ways we do not prefer. They will focus on lives that feed their desires and this is proven by my further link. We seem to think that we have to encourage/compel women to do something against their own personal will, and I think that does not contribute to their happiness. JMHO

I get that your first move is to ignore your own situation and instead attribute the behaviors to your ideological opponents. I think there is some merit to the assertion as there appear to be plenty of folks who support Trump.....I am not going to pretend (as you are) that it is only one side here....though I maintain its far worse on the left.

I think there is some merit to your assertion around support for Hamas and dear of excommunication from the liberal cult, and this is an important factor in why we see the allowance/support for terrorism at places like Columbia and Harvard etc....where normally intelligent people mute themselves rather than face potential subjugation by the cult. I think the students are just the useful idiots of Hamas and other terrorists, and have been manipulated and weaponized; as a cult would tend to do..... I think you and I might differ on our perceptions of a cult, and we clearly diverge on how liberal behaviors tend to be cultish....so I surmise it would be true that we cannot find common ground on this.... A cult is an organized group whose purpose is to dominate cult members through psychological manipulation and pressure strategies.1 Cults are usually headed by a powerful leader who isolates members from the rest of society. So in terms of how I see a cult, I see that liberals like to practice domination through the use of labels....someone stands up to their ideas and they are declared "racist"...."homophobic"..... "transphobic".... and you also have liberal politicians declaring that those ideologically opposed need to be pushed out and aside.... You have the "cancellation" effect that arose on the left, and is dominated by leftism, but we have also seen it done with like Bud Light.....it was as wrong with Bud Light as it is every time liberals do it....its a shameful behavior. It is your primary tactic as well.....

No.....allowance for dissention. At all.....and if you dare to question or challenge a liberal you get a fancy label, and attempt to cancel you.....this is a known factor. Seen over and over, and reported on as well. I think most average people get it, understand it.....we do not care for it. This nation should be a place where discussions can happen without such behaviors, but we also understand the lack of quality arising in liberal ideas which focus on feelings over outcomes.

Not just on loud college kids, but the evident tolerance for it; maybe even fear? And the widespread nature as well. This is what a cult looks like, and it lives pointedly at the allowance of liberals.... Since there is no support for the KKK, an organization equitable to those students chanting for Hamas..... the distinction is even more evident. Your depiction of others, and your obvious and accurate negative connotations toward it, are actually a description of yourself....which you ignore. Liberalism today is a cult. No allowance for dissention, and when it arises those people are attacked for their lack of adherence.....people here disagree with you...and you engage them as a cultist would.....dutifully.

I understand that is how you see it, how you have been indoctrinated to see it. Your behaviors.....applied to others....in a negative manner. Your beliefs are that of a cult, and when your beliefs are not confirmed to you lash out, at others......as being lesser, or evil or what ever your cult decides they should be (homophobic etc) Rather than deal on the elements at hand, your cult demands you attack the others, your behaviors is demonstrative of what a cultist does... the current liberal support for the terrorists is perfectly in line with this cult

Read that carefully..... that is the mindset of many on the left....they believe this to their core...... this is what cults develop

It was a modest proposal.......

The points raised remain relevant. Scandinavia really got into this, and they chose the Friedan approach.....let women decide for themselves....and the gender differences haven’t disappeared. In fact they are more stark than in other developed countries. de Beauvoir knew this would be the case because she understood the development of humans, and we naturally gravitate toward hierarchies....

Based on the quality of their posts I inferred they might all be in the same middle school class, and post based on what the teacher is presenting that day

Simone de Beauvoir was a woman, a prominent feminist, but also rather smart.....and understood women.

Were tariffs bad when Biden did them? No, of course they were not, they are a useful tool that we can leverage when the need arises. Stop pretending Trump is different or worse than any other politician, his only distinction is that our lives were better...

Yeah. like when his dad got eaten by those cannibals from puerto rico on the train where he gave the key to the inflation he pretends he never created.... oops....sorry that was good old joe Maybe instead of pretending Trump is any different than any other politicians when it comes to lying we dispense with the non relevant elements and stick to the fact that Trump simply did the job better, despite lying like a normal politician and being just as dislikable

And feminists admitted as much in the 70's this was the debate between Simone de Beauvoir and Betty Friedan; with Friedan asserting that women should have the choice to work and de Beauvoir countering that she felt women should be compelled....because given a choice they would usually pick to be a mom in the home....

This was my first thought. IMHO the songs with Benjamin Orr were the best Car's songs

This. What we are observing is what arises when the demand for racism exceeds the supply....you make sh!t up and take down anything you can find to demonstrate your virtue....