Jesus Christ

Good Points!

This part interested me, what other "secrets" are there possibly

I've heard that this can be done and that it can't. You would think at one point, a reporter would do a whole piece on this, give the history of the rule, i.e. when it first came into play, year etc.? Was it ever legal? What is accepted? Can you in fact tape coaches from other areas just not the sidelines? However everything is glossed over.

I have not done either and am ging to attempt one this weekend? Would should I do? What's easier? Harder? Any tips/advice? I am 6'4 240 30 years old

First off I am a Patriot fan and not nearly as bitter as the lonely fools on that petetion site.....with that said - The clock WAS handled incorrectly but I will not complain or insist that is the reson the Patriots lost, even with the clock against them the Pats still had chances to put it away (sack eli, samuel could have had an INT, meriweather could have had an INT, stop them on 4th & 1) on the last drive. Blame the players, not the Refs. Then from there blame the OL for their poor play throughout and the coaches for their poor in-game adjustments. Where were the screens, draws? Why wasn't Faulk in more to help block or at least chip the giant pass rush, or guard against Jutsin Tuck up the middle? Why go for it on 4th & 13? Why not run once on that last scoring drive down in the red zone? If they knew Hobbs was hurt why leave him alone in coverage vs Plax on the last play? 35 seconds on the last drive, why did they not try and over the middle or look for something 15 -20 yards, they had 2 timeouts after the 1st down sack, why go deep to Moss each time? Could have sworn on one of those bombs Welker was coming across the middle open with room to run? Answer those questions then we can discuss the ref's. Also nut up and tip your hat to the Giants, they simply outplayed and outcoached the Pats.

Is it the Giants/Patriots? What say you?

The Pats were flat out, out played and out coached. What else can you say? Hopefully they can do it next year. I just wonder where the team went? Where were the adjustments? Where were their usual screens and draws? Why no "no huddle offense" coming out in the 2nd half when it was obvious a rythm needed to be established? It was like a whole new offense out there? Regardless, the giants D was playing so good that may not have mattered. In the end, great regaular season etc. but meaningless without a ring.

Goodell is doing his Press conference right now and has answered some questions on the "tapes" some tidbit of the little I saw. - Said they only found 6 tapes - tapes went only back to the '06 season. - Notes were found as well, but he and the league were unable to prove if they were used in the signal stealing incident, those were destroed as well. - The tapes and notes were destroyed because he was told that's all there were and if any footage is leaked like the Jets video was, he'd know that he was lied to and there were in fact more tapes. I'm sure there wil be plenty of write ups about it when the presser is done. It's live on NFL.com now edit: he also said he doesn't believe it effected any game as he believs coaches plan against this and chnage their signals game to game.

didn't say it would, there was more that was said but that's all i caught - just passing what I heard along

Giants one of the worst SB teams ever Can the New York Giants win Super Bowl XLII? Sure, they have a shot -- but if they win, it may be the biggest upset in Super Bowl history. After all, the New England Patriots are the first NFL team to go 18-0 in a season, while the Giants are one of the two or three worst teams ever to reach the big game. And why is that? Start with their regular-season total of 10 wins. A 10-6 record is a good season, but is not usually indicative of a Super Bowl season. Since the move to a 16-game schedule in 1978 -- and not counting strike years -- just two other teams have made the Super Bowl with a record worse than 11-5: the 1979 Los Angeles Rams (9-7) and the 1988 San Francisco 49ers (10-6). (The 49ers are the worst regular-season team ever to win the Super Bowl.) During the regular season, the Giants outscored their opponents by a combined total of just 22 points. Only two other teams have reached the Super Bowl without outscoring opponents by at least 50 points during the regular season: the 1979 Rams (14 points) and the 2003 Carolina Panthers (21 points). The Giants had a turnover differential of minus-10 during the regular season, which ranked 26th in the NFL. Only one team has ever made the Super Bowl with a worse turnover differential: the 1983 Los Angeles Raiders at minus-13. It is rare for a team to reach the Super Bowl with a negative turnover differential, and the teams that do make up for it by outscoring their opponents by a much larger margin than the Giants. The Giants certainly have played better in the postseason -- but that's true of every single one of these unlikely Super Bowl participants. The 2003 Panthers won by a bigger margin in their first playoff game (19 points) than the Giants have in all three of their playoff games combined (17 points). That 1988 49ers team, you may recall, won its first two playoff games by 25 points each before beating Cincinnati 20-16 in Super Bowl XXIII. In fact, of all the teams needing three wins to reach the Super Bowl, the Giants have been the least dominating in the postseason. That's not to say the Giants can't overcome these negative statistics. After all, last year the Colts had the worst run defense and the worst scoring defense of any Super Bowl champion. And the year before that, the Steelers became the first team to win the Super Bowl as the sixth seed. However, there are a couple of major differences between those teams and this Giants squad. First, each of those teams struggled in the regular season because of a specific injury to a player who was in the lineup for the playoffs (Bob Sanders for the Colts, Ben Roethlisberger for the Steelers). The Giants don't have a specific player whose absence was responsible for their regular-season struggles. Second, those teams faced a different quality of opponent in the Super Bowl. This season's Patriots are not the 2005 Seattle Seahawks or the 2006 Chicago Bears. That may be the biggest difference of all.

The Pats employ these things to happen or play their own "cheese" cards? Who would have thought the Pats had that much power? Also, Troy Brown playing till the whistle is cheesey? Seems more like a great coahcing and heads up football play.

Odd, I remember being a fan prior to their 1st SB in '85. How strange.

So with 6 minutes to go in the game this simulation has the score 30- 2 !!! Nice. a couple late TD's have it end 30-16

or superlatives for QB's Best Arm Strength: Most Accurate: Toughness: Pocket awareness: Quick release: Clutch: Leadership: Scrambler: Running: Best Deep Ball: One QB to lead one drive to win the game:

Like the traits listed in this story, most of these categories defy quantification. But when asked to name names, ESPN.com's QB panel singled out the very best across these categories: Strongest arm:Terry Bradshaw Most accurate: Tom Brady, Joe Montana, Peyton Manning Best no-huddle quarterback:Jim Kelly Prettiest spiral: Warren Moon Best pocket passer: Troy Aikman Best scrambler: Fran Tarkenton Best running quarterback: Steve Young, Michael Vick Best play-action fakes: Johnny Unitas, Steve DeBerg, Boomer Esiason, Peyton Manning Fieriest leader: Norm Van Brocklin Coolest customer: Roger Staubach Ultimate gunslingers: Bobby Layne, Brett Favre Most efficient: Bart Starr Most durable: Brett Favre

Link Good article on great QB's, towards the end it put's brady in perspective of where he fit's it overall in certain categories.. example: ACCURACY Where Brady fits: Experts ranked him among the five most accurate passers; some thought he might be the most accurate in NFL history. Quarterbacks can be many things, but if they're not accurate, they won't last long. "I've seen so many strong-armed guys go through our league and never make a dent because they just were not accurate enough and it took them too long to throw it," Haley said. Accuracy mattered long before Bill Walsh's short-passing offense took hold in San Francisco nearly 30 years ago, but the proliferation of similar offenses has heightened its value. Walsh's offense relied more heavily on receivers gaining yards after the catch. That meant quarterbacks needed to hit receivers in stride. Few passers could place a ball more perfectly than Walsh's hand-picked quarterback. In 1989, Montana completed 70.2 percent of his passes while averaging 9.1 yards per attempt, nearly a yard more per attempt than Brady has averaged this season. "On a hook route, which the West Coast offense is noted for, there are times when you need to hit the left shoulder or the right shoulder because the defender is close on the other shoulder, so you throw it a little bit inside or a little bit outside," Kennan said. "And I thought Montana was phenomenal at that." Montana completed 63.2 percent of his passes for his career. Brady has completed 63 percent, including nearly 69 percent this season. Montana's successor, Young, completed 64.3 percent. "Another route that is really difficult to throw is when the running back runs parallel to the line of scrimmage and you have to turn and throw it to him in the backfield and make it an accurate throw," Kennan said. "Montana was uncannily accurate with that. He threw it about a foot in front of the receiver, who caught it on the dead run and gained 15 yards, where if he threw it a little bit behind him, it would have gained 3 yards." Other categories: Velocity Quick Release Intelligence Mechanics Route Ownership Killer Instinct Two Minute Masters Work Ethic Mobility Overall they Rank him currently 3rd All-time. OVERALL 1. Johnny Unitas 2. Joe Montana 3. Tom Brady 4. Dan Marino 5. Peyton Manning 6. John Elway 7. Terry Bradshaw 8. Brett Favre 9. Otto Graham 10. Dan Fouts

1: Manning is better suited to pick apart the pats D. versus Brady against Giants D: Dumbest statement ever 2: Moss and his off field issues are weighing to heavy on him right now to be effective: That or teams hitting him at the line and double and triple covering him maybe have effected him and when NY does this as well, Brady will find the open WR (his SD performan ce will NOT happen again) 3: The Giants running game will be able to control the clock: The Pats passing game will be able to control the clock - see what happend to the Steelers when they were able to run the ball and control the clock (181 yards on 32 carries) what happened? 4: Maroney will not be nearly as effective as in recent weeks with Brady being held to an "average game": an average brady game this year, with this offense is 300 yards, 3 Td's and 0.5 INt's per game. Maroney only rushed for 46 yards vs teh Giants in wk. 17 but that was without RG Stephen Neal and RT Nick Kaczur. Neal being the Pats best Run blocker 5: Too much hype surrounding the Pats as the greatest ever, and they are buying into it to much which will result in a sub -par performance: You mean the same hype that has followed them all year through the other pressure packed games late in the season. The Patriots handle pressure better then maybe any team ever. It's a one game season, Belichick will not let this one game be the game they lose focus in. NY - 17 NE - 41

I don't think the Pats need this as motivation or extra incentive but what's the point, why throw any more fuel on the fire?

Cold Hard Football gives it's TOP 10 QB's of All-Time. It's not a bad list and one of the few that actually have Graham and Baugh with the modern day QB's. 10. Favre 9. Manning 8. Young 7. Staubach 6. Unitas 5. Brady 4. Graham 3. Baugh 2. Montana 1. Starr CHFF TOP 10 QB's of all-time Blurb about Brady.....

You need to force turnovers and when you do, you have to turn those t.o.'s into touchdowns not FG's.

Montana's thrown 3 INT's in a championship game, Elway has thrown 3 in SB, Manning has thrown 4 in a championship game so we can eliminate those 3 from the discussion along with Brady, so who's the best of all-time then? I'll be the first to say Brady isn't the gretest ever (yet) but one championship game will not cement Tom Brady's playoff career. Especially considering that when the game was still in doubt at 14-12 with 16 minutes to play, Brady led a TD scoring drive and another 9 minute game ending drive to ice the game.

Not concerned at all, why? Because they simply don't lose, even when they play poorly, they step up when it counts. Brady plays poorly the run game steps up or the d steps up. If the run game isn't there Brady steps it up I think you've had a similar posts "Pats should be worried" type posts like these after each game and what happens? You may be right sometime, even a broken clock is right twice a day, so eventually you'll have your moment to gloat in the sun when the Pats finally lose, they can't win every game they ever play although I don't see it happening next week. Now, with the SuperBowl being played in great conditions, with two weeks rest and two weeks to prepare. I see the Pats winning handily in two weeks.

I know, another Pats thread, yada yada........ Anyway, is there any non-patriots fans puling for the Pats to go 19-0 or are you all rooting for anyone but the Pats right now. Obviously if you are a Charger, Giant, Packer fan, I understand your reasoning but for the other teams out of it already, are any of you rooting for history? Like to see it happen?

I think they do owe the fans clarification, good money is paid by the fans and we should know what is and isn;t allowed. All the NFL answered was that you cannot video tape coaching signas from the sidelines, they never answered if can be done anywhere else or why & when the rule was first put in place. Once again, I am looking for the general correct answer not an answer that favors the Patriots.

In a memo to NFL head coaches and general managers on Sept. 6, 2006, NFL executive vice president of football operations Ray Anderson wrote: "Videotaping of any type, including but not limited to taping of an opponent's offensive or defensive signals, is prohibited on the sidelines, in the coaches' booth, in the locker room, or at any other locations accessible to club staff members during the game." In the NFL's operations manual, it states that "no video recording devices of any kind are permitted to be in use in the coaches' booth, on the field, or in the locker room during the game." Furthermore, all video shooting locations for coaching purposes "must be enclosed on all sides with a roof overhead." So, if I work for a NFL team , shoot video of coaches signals from an area that is enclosed on all sides with a roof overhead that is not accessible to anyone but myself and I have no access to anyone else during the game, am I in violation of the rule, will my team be punished? I know this looks like i'm fishing for an answer that helps the Patriots but I realy would like the NFL to answer that question. I hate that we do not have a defintive answer on this whole matter even as a Patriot fan. I've read and saw on television that some people think you can tape coaches signals just not from the sidelines and other reports that say it can't be done at all. However if you read the rule it just says that videotaping a of an opponent's offensive or defensive signals prohibited in a any location that is accesible to staff members during a game? I know what BB did from the sidelines is wrong but is my above scenario legal? Was BB just wrong with location from which he shot the signals? Once again, i'm not trying to exonerate the Pats, I just want to know what can and can't be done. I'd rather know the whole truth too, how long has it been going on? what advanatge did it give? was this rule specifcally made for the Pats? When was the rule 1st put in place was it leagl in '00 not in '01, '99, '88, was it put in place in '06. I wish the NFL would just answer those questions so there is no hearsay from both sides, if those questions were answered, more solid opinions could be formed be it for the pats or against.