scrotch

Good for Garcia. He didn't have big numbers this year, but he was exactly what the Bucs needed this year.

I guess I'll have to ask for the 3rd time where you got your point total for the Titans in 2006. Do you have some special formula or something? Or did you just make up some numbers, hoping nobody would call you out on them?

I still would like to see Wiffleball's breakdown of how he got all his points earlier. I asked him to explain but he hasn't yet. Supposedly VY scored 78 points and the Titans running game got 24 points the entire season. I'm still waiting...

Did you read my entire post? It most certainly is impressive.

No it's just every time I've seen fumbles discussed as a stat, it's only LOST FUMBLES. A lost fumble and a fumble that is recovered by the offense are two very different things, and should be counted differently.

Well luckily I didn't have to because cbfalcon has laid it out pretty clearly for you. I stand by my statement that VY was not outscored by his defense/ST. Sure in your world where only the kicker contributes to field goals he may have. VY should get atleast some credit for getting the team into field goal range, especially the game winners (NYG, IND, @BUF).

You left out one key component. Rushing yards. If you factor in rushing yards, you'll find out that VY contributed to 211 total yards per game, as well as 1.46 TDs per game. I don't care how you spin it, but that's impressive for a rookie. It's even more impressive when you consider the fact that he had those 3 starts in which he threw for less than 100 yards that brought his yards per start average down significantly.

He only had 6 lost fumbles in 2006. But let me guess you don't distinguish between the two...

I said I wouldn't post again, but I do want to clear some things up. I'm not really sure where you are getting your numbers. I'm not even sure how you are calculating your numbers. BUT VY accounted for 19 TDs in his rookie season. I'm not sure how you are doing it but 19 X 6 = 114. So he actually scored 114 points in 2006. I consider a passing TD to be his points, as well as the WRs. I think you were giving VY 3 points per passing TD, which doesn't really make a lot of sense. Do you give a RB 3 points per rushing TD and give the other 3 to the offensive line? Secondly the Titans running game scored more than 24 points. Not sure where you are getting those numbers either. Just off the top of my head Travis Henry alone had 7 rushing TDs, and then I know he rushed for atleast one 2 point conversion. So that alone is 44 points. I can't even remember if Chris Brown/Lendale had any TDs that season. I guess the best thing you could do is tell us how you got the numbers. I'm genuinely interested.

This has to be the stupidest post I've seen on here in a while. So just because Vince didn't take the ball in the endzone himself means he didn't contribute? Just because he passed the ball down to the 5 yard line and let Travis Henry run it in means he had nothing to do with it? Just because he made play after play to get the Titans into a game winning field goal range for Bironas he didn't contribute. Look VY has many faults, but don't go touting statistics such as "VY Points" around like it means anything. If you've ever watched the Titans you know that once they get near the goal line they love to hand the ball off. Vince meant a hell of a lot to the 2006 Titans, and deserved all the praise he got. Any idiot who just looks at the stats (or looks at the score) and didn't actually watch the game and tries to tell me why VY was no good his rookie season is beyond stupid. And the Tennessee Titans defense was ranked dead last in the NFL in 2006. That should tell you a lot about the quality of their defensive play. I've watched every Titans game beginning to end since 1999 and I can tell you that was the worst defensive unit they've ever trotted onto the field. I don't care if they had a few decent games, they by and large sucked. They gave up more yards per game than any other team in the league. But you seem to think they were a good unit because they had a few fluky return TDs. Their special teams was very good that year I will admit, but VY meant more to the team than the special teams did. You made some valid points in the past, but this post has made me lose all respect for you. I think this will be my last post in this topic. It's no fun arguing with morons.

Dude. The major difference here is that Vince hasn't even started 2 full season's worth of games. How many years had Dilfer been in the NFL when he won the superbowl? Look I admit he stunk this season, but give him a fair chance. Very few QBs put up really good numbers this early.

Jeff Fisher had a say, but ultimately the call to draft Vince Young came from Floyd Reese. Their are strong indications that Titans owner Bud Adams strongly influenced the decision as well. After Floyd Reese resigned, Fisher got a little more say so in personnel decisions. But that was the year after Vince was drafted. In fact, rumors have swirled that he wanted Leinart or Cutler. But hey don't let me get in the way of your fantasy world where you just make up stuff on the fly and pass it off as fact. I'm sure it's fun in there.

Norm Chow's offenses were bottom of the barrel in all of his 3 years as the offensive coordinator. Steve McNair, Billy Volek, Kerry Collins, and Vince Young all started games during his regime, and the Titans never had an impressive offense. Chow was given 3 years and the Titans never had a good offense. I don't have the stats, but I would bet they ranked below 25th in each of his 3 seasons.

Since you are repeatedly pushing the Pro-bowl issue, I decided to break it down for you. I will let you know why Vince went and deserved to go to the pro-bowl following his rookie season. Here we go. The pro-bowl starters that season for the AFC was Peyton Manning, Carson Palmer, Philip Rivers. Philip Rivers was injured during the playoff game vs. the Patriots and couldn't go. Tom Brady was the first alternate, and for whatever reason declined to go as well. Following Brady, next in line was Steve McNair. Steve McNair also decided not to attend. So..the 6th leading vote-getter was Vince Young. Vince's 2006 stats were very good for a rookie. 13 starts: 12 passing TDs, and 7 rushing TDs. 2750 yards of offense. Most important were his highlight reel TD runs, and his big game performance. The most impressive thing Vince showed in his rookie season was poise. He has an NFL Rookie record of 4 4th quarter or overtime comebacks. Another impressive feat was the fact that he did all of this while the Titans sported the league's worst defense. He led the Titans to every one of their 8 wins and finished the season with a record of 8-5. He also made big plays the run game. Only 2 of his 7 TD runs came at the goal line. The other 5 were from atleast 20 yards out, including 2 that were greater than 35 yards. His biggest flaw was his 52% completion percentage. When you take the first 5 QBs out of the situation here is what you are left with in the AFC in 2006: Damon Huard/Trent Green - Huard played well, but was soon benched in favor of Green again, Green didn't play all that well Jay Cutler/Jake Plummer - Neither played really well Andrew Walter- nothing to say here David Garrard - Had not really developed yet. Very inconsistent (10 TDs vs. 9 INTS) David Carr - nothing to say here Charlie Frye- nothing to say here Ben Roethlisberger- Colossal disappointment following Superbowl XL. Lead league in INTs. Chad Pennington - played decent (17 TDs vs. 16 INT). But VY still had more TDs in less starts. JP Losman - Played nicely. (20 TDs vs. 14 INT). But he and team faltered towards the end of the season, and even lost to the VY-led Titans at Buffalo Joey Harrington/Daunte Culpepper nothing to say here Realistically, the only other two that should be in the pro-bowl conversation was JP Losman and Chad Pennington. Chad Pennington threw almost as many INTs as he had TDs, and JP Losman played solid all year but never really spectacular. Vince was making insane plays and led his team to victory despite being down in the 4th quarter in 3 straight games (NYG, IND, @HOU). Vince led all QBs with 7 rushing TDs, and seemed to make the right plays at the right time, which is why he deserved to go to the pro bowl (when you take out the first 5 QBs) Vince's poor play this season has led many to forget that he was sensational as a rookie. I'm not saying he will be the next great QB but atleast acknowledge that he has done some good things in the NFL.

Vince carried the 2006 team on his back to an almost playoff berth after starting off 0-5. He did not get outscored by his defense and special teams in 2006. In fact the Titans were ranked dead last in total defense that year. I didn't say he single-handedly won games THIS season, but I'm not going to deny him his due from 2006 just because he struggled in 2007. Because he did do some amazing things that season. 19 total TDs in 13 starts was pretty impressive, no? You probably didn't realize this either, but did you know the Titans had far and away the toughest schedule in the NFL in 2006?

I don't understand people around here. When the Titans drafted Young, everybody on here said he was a "project" QB who would take atleast 3 years to develop, but when he struggles in year 2 everybody says he's terrible. Make up your mind. People don't want to believe this but every young QB struggles. Vince is no different. How you can lay down a definitive judgment on a QB when he hasn't even started 2 season's worth of games yet is beyond me. Give him time. Sheesh. It seems like people on here are especially angry because they spent a high draft pick on a young QB with no weapons...all things that were known going into the season. And people who are bitter about him going to the pro-bowl need to realize that like 4 other people dropped out for him to be able to go. And if you don't think VY single-handedly won games for the Titans in 2006 then you did not watch Titans football. If Vince struggles like this next season or the next then I will admit to being wrong. But I'm not going to say that he's no better than Trent Dilfer at the end of his second season when he's throwing to the quality of WRs that he had in 2007.

We'll just have to agree to disagree. I do realize he was hurt. But as a Titans fan, who watched Billy play for 3-4 years, I believe a Philip Rivers at 75% is better than Billy at 100%. Especially in the AFC championship game. Billy had a 3 game streak where he destroyed the Colts, Chiefs, and Raiders leading many to fantasy glory in 2004. The Titans were 0-3 in those games. He seems to break down with the game on the line, because he is a game-managing QB, not a game-winning QB. But it's really all pointless, because neither one of us truly knows what would've happened if Volek had started the game.

Where is all this Billy Volek folklore coming from? Sure he carved up a few horrendous defenses in the fantasy playoffs a couple of years ago, but he is in no way better than Philip Rivers. The stats may not show it, but Rivers made some plays out there. But the bottom line is you can't beat teams in the playoffs with field goals. And considering he was without LT and a banged up Gates, I thought he did pretty well. Volek had not played all year and to throw him into the fire in the AFC championship game would've surely ended in disaster. Volek is more of a game-manager QB. He'll rarely win the game for you, but he probably won't be the reason the team loses either. You can't beat the Patriots with a game-manager. Oh and just a stat to think about: Billy Volek's career record as starting QB in the NFL: 3-7 Philip Rivers career record as starting QB in the NFL: 25-7

I agree whole-heartedly that any team can win on any Sunday. If not then I don't think I'd even watch football. I was just mainly talking to the people (and I've heard it on here before) who say that Cleveland was a better team than Tennessee this season. Statistically (and I've broken it down for you with many stats) they weren't. I realize that Cleveland could possibly beat Tennessee, but the Titans earned their way in, and Cleveland didn't. But that was directed to all the people who said that Cleveland deserved it more and should've been in the playoffs. Sure if the Colts would've won they would've been in. But why do the Colts owe Cleveland anything? And why do people automatically assume the Titans would've lost if Indy had played the full starters? The previous 3 games between the Colts/Titans has been very close. A 14-13 win for the Colts, a 20-17 win for the Titans, and a 22-20 win for the Colts. And in fact the score at the end of the 1st quarter with all the Colts starters still playing was Titans 7-3. Cleveland had every chance to earn their way in but couldn't. In almost every way to measure it, the Browns were not a better team than the Titans this year.

The system didn't really work all that well because Kurt Warner was a much better QB for the offense this season. And it showed. With a couple of years in the system we'll see how Matt Leinart can perform next season. Once again he has the receivers, but young QBs take a few years to develop. He could possibly bounce back, but he needs to work on banging a few more celebrities if he wants to keep up with Romo. A lot people don't realize but getting to .500 was big this season for the Cardinals. With that weak division they could make some noise next season. I think Whisenhunt can have them in the playoffs next season. Of course that's what I said last season...and the year before...and the year before.

I'm not saying they will, but the Packers and Seahawks combined for 62 points last week. I realize it won't be as cold, but it's certainly comparable especially with the snow. If the Packers are able to run the ball like they did against the Seahawks then it's not out of the question for the Packers to put up some points.

I remember really scratching my head when they first hired him, but he's done an incredible job. To win 13 games w/ an extremely young team is unbelievable. So he was negotiating during the playoffs and everyone knows the details about the contract, but he won't sign it for fear of a distraction? If you wanted to send such a message out then you should've told the media you weren't negotiating an extension until after the season is finished. You can't have it both ways Mike. But congratulations Packers fans!

Actually I think Volek's arm strength is one of his greatest assets. He throws a great deep ball. He was the MVP of the 2004 fantasy season. Atleast for a few weeks.

I like Volek, but Rivers was playing his best football this postseason. He put the offense on his back when LT averaged 2.0 YPC in the first playoff game, and looked great on the road at Indy. I'll be cheering for Billy though, he's a guy who played great, despite not being drafted, but was never given a fair shot even though he probably deserved it.

Another fun stat I saw was that Cleveland's 2007 opponents were a combined 110-146 (0.430) while the Titans opponents were a combined 128-128 (.500) So Cleveland played in a weaker division, a weaker schedule, lost to weaker teams, were weaker on the road, but somehow people believe they are better than the Titans. I can't tell you how many times I've heard that the Titans didn't deserve to be in the playoffs and how Cleveland got screwed by the Colts, and how the Browns would've given San Diego a much better game. Ridiculous. The better team got in.