UNCDave

So FBN, you're saying Harvin is 22 spots greater than Cobb, and then Cobb is 18 spots lower than Cruz. So actual order would be Harvin, Cruz, Cobb? I think I can agree with the order, but not the degree. Let's just assume Harvin finishes at WR10, that would put Cobb at WR32, and Cruz at WR14. 2 of those feel likely, the other is a stretch. STop the hyperbolic madness

This is based on the consensus rankings we all voted on in the stickies over the past few days, so not just one person's thoughts. Personally I have Olsen ranked #10 and Rudolph #13.

1. Brady, Tom 2. Rodgers, Aaron 3. Brees, Drew 4. Vick, Michael 5. Newton, Cam 6. Stafford, Matthew 7. Rivers,Philip 8. Manning, Peyton 9. Ryan, Matt 10. Palmer, Carson 11. Manning, Eli 12. Griffin III, Robert 13. Roethlisberger, Ben 14. Romo, Tony 15. Flacco, Joe 16. Schaub, Matt 17. Smith, Alex 18. Cutler, Jay 19. Fitzpatrick, Ryan 20. Luck, Andrew

1. Rice, Ray 2. Foster, Arian 3. McCoy, LeSean 4. Murray, DeMarco 5. McFadden, Darren 6. Forte, Matt 7. Charles, Jamaal 8. Sproles, Darren 9. Jackson, Fred 10. Bradshaw, Ahmad 11. Johnson, Chris 12. Jackson, Steven 13. Mathews, Ryan 14. Lynch, Marshawn 15. Jones-Drew, Maurice 16. Turner, Michael 17. Redman, Isaac 18. Martin, Doug 19. Williams, DeAngelo 20. Peterson, Adrian 21. Greene, Shonn 22. Gore, Frank 23. Bush,Reggie 24. Green-Ellis, BenJarvus 25. Richardson, Trent 26. Smith, Kevin 27. Stewart, Jonathan 28. Tate, Ben 29. Gerhart, Toby 30. Spiller, C.J.

1 Johnson, Calvin 2 White, Roddy 3 Jennings, Greg 4 Welker, Wes 5 Johnson, Andre 6 Cruz, Victor 7 Fitzgerald, Larry 8 Harvin, Percy 9 Smith, Steve (CAR) 10 Marshall, Brandon 11 Jones, Julio 12 Brown, Antonio 13 Green, A.J. 14 Nicks, Hakeem 15 Bryant, Dez 16 Austin, Miles 17 Colston, Marques 18 Johnson, Steve 19 Wallace, Mike 20 Nelson, Jordy 21 Decker, Eric 22 Thomas, Demaryius 23 Bowe, Dwayne 24 Maclin, Jeremy 25 Garcon, Pierre 26 Smith, Torrey 27 Jackson, Vincent 28 Lloyd, Brandon 29 Meachem, Robert 30 Wayne, Reggie

And this is how a thread about the HoF game becomes Julio thread (we need more of those ) Good job Mueller

Michael Floyd - Arizona

In some clubs those are the same thing.

Cam and Cruz are likely good values, but why would anyone trade them with the value. It just depends on how your league drafted last year.

Color me interested.

Vick RG3 T-Rich S. Jackson DWill Madden Curse S. Johnson Torrey Smith R. Meachem Gonzo and at 11.05 - Ronnie Hillman

I play in 1 where QBs get 1 pt for 10yds same as RB and WR, plus bonus for completon %, and 6 pts for TDs. So obviously Brady Brees ARod and company are valuable.

Sorry guys, computer issues. I hate to say I would have taken RGIII here, but hoestly I would have, however, my fault for being late, so I accept it and will take a starter instead - EDIT: 9.05 RG3 Thanks a bunch!

8.08 Deangelo Williams Since his ADP is 7.10 right now some people on this bored will likely consider this a "reach". Seriously though was hoping for Hillis here also.

I'm pretty high on him as well, which is why I "reached" for him in a draft that you may have seen some people talking about. 4.12 for what could end up being a RB1 is worth it. I honestly think he has 2 completely different floor/ceiling valuations: 1 with Mendy on the PUP/IR and 1 without. He's going to start the first part of the season regardless. If he shows some improvement I think he earns more pt. But this is dependent on Mendy being at the level of rehab most are predicting him at as of now. Floor/ceiling with Mendy on PUP is mid-to-low RB2/10th-15th RB overall No PUP for Mendy Low RB3/MidRB2

FBN I think he was saying that Stew has been playing behind DWill, and Carolina won't pay Stew, then someone else will.

7.05 Robert Meachem

QB - Vick 34.6 RB- Rice 22.9 RB- DWill 9.7 WR- Jennings 16.6 WR- White 17.4 WR- Austin 14.3 TE- Witten 12.7 Flex- Meachem 8.7 K- Gostkowski 8.0 Def- Bal 15.5 Total 161.4

The biggest problem comparing ADP like that is that there is no true dynasty start-up ADP. That is going to change some players value drastically,like Best or Turner for example. Still I suppose you could just look at ffc's ppr ADP and gauge there who got the best values. MFL also has a link where you can have FBG rate your team, that's an interesting thing to look at as well. It gives you what they think your chances of making the playoffs in your league are. Here is what I got: "Overview: Congratulations! You seem to have grabbed quality players at every turn of this draft. It's rare indeed to be better than the average team at the three core positions (quarterback, running back and receiver), but we think this team is. And it's above average at the supporting positions as well. You must be among the favorites in this league and have positioned yourself to grab one of the playoff spots. But before you start engraving the trophy, realize that the draft is not the end of the story. Things can and do go wrong, so you need to remain diligent throughout the year to ensure you remain strong until the playoffs. Players we particularly like on this team include Jason Witten, Emmanuel Sanders, Greg Olsen, Christian Ponder, Mohamed Sanu, and Stephen Gostkowski. We have all these guys ranked ahead of where they are typically being drafted. Bottom line: With great inseason management, we think you have about a 90 percent chance of making the playoffs. With good inseason management, we think you have about a 80 percent chance of making the playoffs. With average inseason management, we think you have a 73 percent chance of making the playoffs."

6.08 T Smith Bal WR Team: QB - Vick RB - TRich, SJax WR - Madden Curse, Stevie Johnson, Torrey Smith

Per Roto: 7/29/2011: Signed a five-year, $43 million contract. The deal contains $21 million guaranteed, including a $16 million signing bonus and $5 million of Williams' second-year base salary. 2012: $5.25 million, 2013: $4.75 million, 2014: $5.75 million, 2015: $6.75 million, 2016: Free Agent So seems like 5Mil guaranteed this year and nothing guaranteed through 2015.

5.05 Stevie Johnson. My main target went 1 pick ahead, so I'll settle for what could be a top 20 WR if FitzRyan plays well.

Looks like I will have to take Vick here at 4.08, he's BPA on my board. I think he's top5 this year at QB, and wouldn't be too surprised to see him top3. I've never drank the Vick kool-aid before, but something about this year keeps me targeting him in the 4-5 range.

If I had the 2nd pick in a 3 team draft, I'm taking Rice in the 1st, then probably DMac in the 2nd, 3rd is where it starts to get interesting, go for that 3rd RB, cuz you know they're starting to thin out by now, or take a chance on QB/WR?

Time for me to lay out my strategy going into the draft. Overall for this Dynasty/Keeper hybrid, it was tougher to com up with "rules" on how to project and target. You can't let future projections overwhelm this year's performance. So my goal was to draft as close to a redraft, with some exceptions, I had a strong feeling certain "older" players would drop farther than they should. So I would wait on them and only reach for the young ones I really wanted and knew would be coveted throughout the league. Let's break this down by position. QB - I waited until the 5th round to take my 1st QB, actually planned to wait longer but felt there was too much value to pass up on Vick at 5.04. I had him rated at QB5 and got him as the 7th QB off the board. I know he needs to stay healthy for my projections to hold, but it was a risk I was willing to take. I got Schaub at 10.06 and Ponder at 15.06 for QBBC for my #2 spot. I have both of those guys as having fairly strong years this season and could see either one cracking Top15. Finally grabbed Russell Wilson for the future at 21.06. RB - Started out with 6th pick and was really hoping Rice or Matthews would fall to me, skeptical that Rice would, but it looks like I would have had a chance at Matthews. Luckily I got a good deal and moved up to the 1 spot, then traded that back to move up a little more in later rounds and ended up with the 3 spot with the same 2 targets. I have Rice and Matthews projected as RB1 and RB2, I know this is not how most people see it, and I am fine with that. Landed Rice at 1.03. Then I semi-panicked and took Redman at 4.12 since the other options were Best, JStew and Bush. The only one of those 3 I considered was Best. On my board Redman is RB20 with a chance to have a breakout season. He will either be my best pick or worst pick, no middle ground there. My big regret about where I took him was that I could have gotten him later, yet the run on RBs and the lack of talent had me shore up my starting lineup. Got my 1st backup RB at 9.06 in Deangelo Williams. I think this pick will be my "Steal of the Draft". I believe he will be the strong performer in Charlotte this season, and I got him 4 rounds after JStew. Next I went with Toby Gerhart at 12.07, I feel he will have early opportunity and maybe more, all depending on ADP (and not Average Draft Position). Rounds 22-24 were all RBs, McCluster, Bryce Brown and Ringer. All have a slight chance to be something, but it's not critical for my team that they do have great years. WR - I really feel like I got amazing values here, so this will likely be where I do the worst. At 3.01 I took Jennings, I have him ranked WR4 and got him as the 5th off the board. I feel like my 3.06 pick was even better, getting White who I have ranked as WR2 this year as the 9th WR off the board was a great deal. I knew he would drop though, due to being older. At 5.06 I felt I got another great value in Miles Austin, I have him ranked as WR14 and got him as the 21st off the board. Depth came in round 8 with Meachem who I think will be top20, round 11 with Quick who could end up the #1 in StL, round 14 in Sanu who will have a strong year in Cincy. Then the speculation began at round 17, Sanders is in that mythical 3rd year as a receiver, if things work out this pick will look brilliant. This year's Cruz? (Nah, probably not, but fun to pretend.) Golden Tate in the 18th and James Jones in the 20th round out a nice WR corps. I really feel I did well here with 2 top 5 talents and 4 top20. TE- My strategy here was wait on the midlevel TEs and pair them up so go for Olsen and Tamme, and save higher picks for the big 3. This got thrown off by Witten being available in the 6th round, I had him pegged as TE3 right behind Gronk and Graham, so I couldn't pass on the value. I still managed to snag Olsen in the 13th and plan to start both of them a lot this year. DST - Just draft a team that I think will do well, if the value is there, the Ravens in the 16th fit that bill. K- Brady's kicker in the 19th round? Yes, please. I feel like I got at least 1 top5 pick in every category, seldom does a draft work that way. Yet by waiting on some of the older players and not letting value pass by even if they weren't a target I feel it worked for me here. Time will tell however.