kmbryant09

Hmm I'll give this my best shot. Recap: You're trying to claim that the NFL never came out and said that the Patriots cheated. Therefore you cannot argue that the Patriots cheated to win Superbowls. You even pasted the statement from Goodell/NFL stating their language to try and show that they didn't "cheat". See some excerpts below. "violating league policy" “This episode represents a calculated and deliberate attempt to avoid longstanding rules designed to encourage fair play and promote honest competition on the playing field,” I argued, how can you honestly interpret those phrases in any other way but that the Patriots cheated? I'll try and make this easier for you. Here's one of the definitions of the word "cheat". Taken directly from www.dictionary.com: -to violate rules or regulations. Let's see if you can connect the dots...

Oh, I didn't realize that a 25-yard pass down to the 20 yard-line with 4:00 to go in a 2 point game guarantees victory . Especially considering a FG would have still lost them the game considering the Giants scored a game-winning TD in the final minute. Again. Please enlighten me more though about how that catch guaranteed victory! I don't buy that for a second. The safety is a good 5-7 yards away when the ball gets there. Plenty of room to lead Welker up the seam. Not a great throw. Not a great catch. My point is Pats fans dismiss any blame from Brady and latch on to anything else that happened to place the blame. Not necessarily you in particular, but Pats fans being all bent outta shape about a 10-yard drop in the 3rd quarter is just another example that they can't come to grips with how poorly Brady has played in big games and how poorly Belichick has coached in big games since 2005. Brady has taken a Safety in order to avoid being hit, has thrown 3 4th-quarter INT's in the Patriots last 2 playoff defeats, and has produced 31 TOTAL points in his last 2 SB's after averaging ~34 in the regular season. Yet all (some) Patriots fans are b!tching about is Welker's drops.

Again, now that it's Brady and the Patriots failing in the big games, you want to break down ho it happened and help rationalize that it wasn't that bad. The INT was a tipped pass. He basically had to throw the 2nd one. And find the angle from behind the play that shows Brady's pass is a good 2-3 yards outside of where it should be. Welker actually slows up his momentum to try and get his body further to the sideline (where the throw was errant), and STILL has to jump and twist his body 180 degrees to the outside, and the ball hits his out-stretched fingers. Again, Patriots fans love to put 100% of the blame on Welker. Not the underachieving offense. Not Brady's in-defensible Safety. Or yet another 4th-quarter INT. It was Welker's Buckner-esque mistake

Seriously? I try and avoid most SpyGate talk because I honestly don't know what to believe. But are you really going to try and argue that the Patriots didn't cheat? Read the bolded phrases above and please tell me how you arrive at a different conclusion than the Patriots cheated.

When Anna was asked about Welker's performance on Sunday, she was quoted "he just came up a little bit short".

No offense PATSSOX, but this is the kind of head-scratching stupidity that I'm talking about. Welker's 'drop' last year is remembered much differently to Patriots fans than to the rest of the nation. That play involved a 5'8" possession WR running a seam route 30 yards down field; and at full speed needed to jump, twist his body 180 degrees and stretch out full to make the catch. Catchable? Absolutely. But hardly some Buckner-mistake that you make it out to be. And this year, everyone is all bent outta shape about a drop that would have resulted in a measly 10 yard completion to extend a drive. Nothing more. Nothing less. But it's all you seem to be focused on. It's the first thing you pointed out above about the loss to the Ravens. Not Belichick deciding to go ultra-conservative from the 35 yard-line multiple times. Or his refusal to make any adjustments after Talib went down. Not Brady's gross mis-handling of the clock at the end of the 1st half. Not Brady's 2 4th-quarter INT's. Think about that. Your star QB threw 2 4th-quarter INT's, at home, in a close game, with a Super Bowl birth on the line...And all you can think about is a 2nd-quarter drop for 10 yards.

I'm surprised that this isn't being mentioned more: Teams don't construct themselves to be a "bad-weather" team, or a "cold-weather" team. Teams construct themselves to be a pass-oriented team, or a defensive-minded team. And they certainly don't do it based on their team's location. Look at the Green Bay Packers, New England Patriots, and New York Giants - 3 of the coldest franchises in the league, yet they are perennially pass-oriented offenses. The Super Bowl should be a clash between two teams, 53 players, a handful of coaches, and their respective schemes and philosophies. The Super Bowl should be a venue that allows both teams equal opportunity to deploy, execute, and produce their respective strategies. That's the problem with a NY Super Bowl. If the San Francisco 49ers (a ground-and-pound, defensive oriented team) faced the New England Patriots (an offensive juggernaut, passing-oriented team), I want to see who out-executes who. Who out-coaches who. Who out-schemes who. I don't want the 49ers to have a significant edge in that game because its 20 degrees, snowing, and 30mph winds. Every team has an opportunity to execute their strategy in a dome or in a warm-weather stadium. Bad weather stadiums take away that opportunity for some teams, and I just don't see how that's fair.

Sorry, but that was pure luck. There are thousands of stories out there of auto-picked leagues coming in last.

This is one lesson I think a lot of Patriots fans have been learning the past few years. Many fans will say something similar to what you just said, but the reality is, 5 years ago it was a much different story. Maybe not all of you guys, but a large majority of Patriots fans believed, or at least argued, that all (most) of the Colts failures were because of Manning, and all (most) of the Patriots success was because of Brady. More-so about Manning's lack of success than Brady's success, but nonetheless. They didn't take the time to address the benefit of the Tuck Rule, the defense shutting down the Greatest Show on Turf, Vanderjagt missing big field goals while Vinatieri made every big field goal. Hell, the Ravens are a perfect example - Cundiff shanks a 30-yarder against the Patriots in last year's AFCCG to extend Brady's season to the SB, then drills a 47-yarder to end Manning's (different kicker). Yet so many people labeled Manning a choker and Brady as Captain Clutch. That's what bothered me so much, and still does to some degree - although it sounds like the nation is coming around to the idea that Brady & the Pats are no longer clutch, and have been chokers for the last 5-6 years. I bet a lot of people would be surprised to hear that Peyton Manning actually has a higher QB Rating than Brady does in the postseason. The reality is that it is difficult for a team to be successful in the NFL. It's extremely difficult to win 1 Superbowl, and increasingly difficult to win multiple titles. In no way, shape, or form, is a team's success solely dependent on 1 player (exceptions like a kicker to win-lose a game, etc.). It is a collection of ~45 guys on offense, defense, and special teams. It's a culmination of hundreds, even thousands of plays. It's a little bit of how the ball bounces, how the refs call the game, and certainly how the coaches coach. The reality is that we all really need to reserve judgement before labeling an individual player as clutch or a choker based on a small handful of games.

lesjroza - Solid input. I definitely agree that most, if not all, of those players don't appear have much fantasy relevance in 2013. But I do think they are under-the-radar, valuable assets in a Dynasty League. As for the RB's, all 5 have a chance to be starting RBs in 2014 or 2015. If you find yourself with Steven Jackson, Frank Gore, Willis McGahee, etc. as a contributor in 2012-2013, then these are some of the names I'd be looking at to replace their production down the road.

How about a twist: Let's get a discussion going about under-the-radar Dynasty Players. QB: Colin Kaepernick - I know he's being talked about, but buy-low on him while you still can. I think he can be a top3 QB in 2013, and he's only 25. Ryan Tannehill - I was never a big fan of his, but I've got to hand it to him. He was a solid QB given for a rookie playing with absolutely no skill-players around him. Wouldn't be a bad backup next year with room for improvement if Miami signs Bowe/Jennings/Wallace. RB: Bernard Pierce - I know he is stuck behind Ray Rice, but this guy really impresses me. He's the real deal, and if Rice sustains an injury, Pierce could be a top5 RB in his own-right. David Wilson - Is getting some hype, but he could be the lead back for a top10 offense as soon as 2013. And we know how explosive he is. Lamichael James - Frank Gore will slow down eventually, and Kendall Hunter's future is clouded by his recent injury. I think he's just big enough to be a 20-touch RB, and he could be explosive paired with Kaep. Vick Ballard - I've seen him ranked outside of the top30 in some dynasty rankings, which I don't understand. He may not be ultra-talented, but Indy was comfortable with him as the lead back. Luck will ensure that Indy has a great offense for years, and the O-Line is sure to improve. Joique Bell - This is a flier. Detroit likes him as their passing-down RB, and he was probably their best overall RB. Wouldn't be surprised if they made him the #1 given how much they like to throw. WR: Golden Tate - Very talented, and now has a good QB throwing him the ball. Sidney Rice won't stay healthy forever, and Wilson has to throw it to somebody. Jeremy Kerley - Fits the mold of an ideal slot-WR, which is becoming an increasingly important position in the NFL. Could be a sneaky PPR starter when the Jets figure out their QB-situation (probably not until 2014). Julian Edelman - Would be the de factor candidate to replace Welker if the Patriots let him leave. Could be solid for 3-5 years before Brady hangs em up.

And when that happens repeatedly to Peyton Manning and the Colts/Broncos, my Patriots friends, family, and media considered that choking. It was as simple and lazy as labeling Peyton as a choker. Now Patriots fans are on the other end of it, and they spread the blame and almost refuse to use the "C" word. It's Welker's drop. The lack of a pass-rush. No secondary. No deep threat. Etc. Etc. Definitely agree with a lot of what you said. Part of the reason some people hate the Patriots is because of their success. You see it with the Yankees in baseball and really any time a team puts together sustained success. It's almost a compliment to have your team disliked for this reason. But I refuse to believe that Patriot fans have been "taking it" ever since the Tuck Rule. No matter what anyone argued about their luck, their record, their cheating, Brady vs. Manning, etc. - every single Patriots fans pointed to 3 SB rings and acted like their franchise could do no wrong because of them. And I get that, and I even understand that. Hell, if my team ever wins 3 SB's in 4 years, I will absolutely boast about it. But when my team suffers heart-breaking defeats in the playoffs, I'm forced to deal with it. And now Patriots fans are forced to deal with it. They should have been dealing with it for about 6 years now, but there was this invisible aura around Patriot nation that the Patriots are/were still the best. An aura that Belichick can out-coach Vince Lombardi, Phil Jackson, and Joe Torre combined. An aura that Tom Brady makes no mistakes and is Captain Clutch. But for years now, the opposite has held true. And it's only now catching up with most Patriots fans. Also, it's very easy to hate the Patriots, and I never understand why most Patriots fans don't at least acknowledge this. Belichick is a pr!ck. From his arrogant coaching style, to running up scores, to the handshake fiascoes, to how he handles the media. Tom Brady is very polarizing. He can do no wrong if he's your guy, but if you root for anyone else, you see him as an Uggs-endorser, wife-whipped player that whines every time he takes a hit. And then Patriot nation ignores all of these characteristics, and concentrates solely on the positives; which just adds to the hatred.

I'm an avid fantasy football owner who is looking to expand my portfolio. I've played in 2-4 leagues for the past 8-10 years with growing success, and am intrigued by the thought of a Dynasty League. Here I am, 3 weeks after the fantasy football season has ended, and I'm already crunching stats in prep for next year's draft. Do Dynasty Leagues help fulfill that year-round craving for fantasy football? I imagine putting in time/research into rookie drafts can be intriguing, and I'm also guessing that there's a lot more player movement/activity in the offseason of Dynasty Leagues as opposed to Keeper Leagues. I have two points for discussion: 1. Can you Dynasty League experts discuss the ins-and-outs of this format? What's the ideal size of Dynasty Leagues (I think I would prefer 10 teams), roster set-up, etc. How do rookie drafts work - is it a 2 or 3 round ordeal that expands rosters? Or do owners have to make subsequent drops. 2. What's the best way to start a Dynasty League? I have 1 or 2 buddies who have the same interest level/knowledge that I have, but that's obviously not enough to start one. I'd be interested in getting one started with owners on this board (I know a lot of you guys are in leagues together anyways). Are there websites that post openings for Dynasty Leagues that are actually competitive? I'm not looking for anything too serious, but a $100-300 yearly buy-in would be ideal. Finally, anyone have an opening in a start-up league or existing league that I could apply for? Feel free to turn this into a general discussion about dynasty leagues.

Fair enough. But I wouldn't be surprised if defenses starting giving Marshall the Larry Fitzgerald-treatment. At least until Cutler and Jeffrey/Bennett/Hester/etc. prove they can beat you.

I just can't put Marshall any higher. He's borderline insane, which is a red-flag in my opinion. He's also finished 2nd, 13th, 22nd, 6th, 9th and 9th in scoring the last 6 years among WR's. That means he's averaged the 10th best production over the last 6 years. He's had only 2 seasons of 8+ Touchdowns. And while he was great last season, I'm not sure any WR will ever account for 45% of his team's yards and 52% of their receiving TD's again.

Or if Brady doesn't take a safety on the first offensive possession of the game. Of if he doesn't throw a 4th-quarter INT with a lead. Or if he produces more than 14 TOTAL POINTS in the 2nd half of those 2 SB's. Of if he scores more than 15.5 points (average) after averaging 36.8 and 32.1 in the regular seasons. Or if he doesn't go a combined 16-31 with 156 yards and an INT - a 63.3 rating - in the 4th quarter of those 2 games. Look, Brady was not the only reason why the Patriots have failed so much the last 8 years. But 8 years ago Brady was placed on a QB-Pedestal in part because of some clutch play, and in-part because of a great team around him. But he's done MORE than enough over the last 8 years to be labeled as a choker, or the opposite of clutch. It just seems that people don't talk about it enough. Tom Brady has been disappointing over the last 8 years in the post-season. People like myself, among many others, felt that the Pedestal he was placed on was too much, too high given the team accomplishments. The Patriots 1st SB victory was all about their defense shutting down the Greatest Show on Turf. Brady threw for 145 yards! And he threw for 115 in the AFC Championship game! Yes, he played very well in the Patriots' 2nd and 3rd SB wins, and he deserves credit for that. But like I said, please don't tell me that he's the greatest of all-time because the Patriots won 3 SB's. And likewise, after hearing arrogant Patriots fans (I live in Boston) shove Brady and Belichick down our throats as these God-like, all-time greats who can do no wrong - guess what, they've been doing wrong for 8 years! They've choked in 2 SB's in which they were heavy favorites! Belichick has made horrible decisions in the biggest games, Brady has played AWFUL at times in the biggest moments of the biggest games. For 8 years! I just think its time for Patriots fans to take it, rather than give it like they've done for so long.

I'm as big a Peyton Manning fan/follower on this board, and I have not heard a single opinion about him retiring at the end of the season if they won the SB. I have heard a few people mention that he could retire after his 3rd season with Denver (2 more seasons), because there is some sort of out-clause in his contract - based on performance/health, I believe. But based on everything, I cannot see him retiring before that 3-year window. He's still developing chemistry with his WR's, his arm is still regaining strength ( ), he's got a good O-Line to protect him, and a real defense for the first time in his career (although they didn't show up in the playoffs). I don't think he spent 20+ months recovering from a career-threatening, life-altering injury to play 1 season.

I listed my top 5 at each position already, but I'll try and expand it to 10...Some rankings may have changed. So what. QB's: 1. Aaron Rodgers - No brainer. Argaubly the #1 QB in the game today, and still should play 5+ years at an elite level. 2. Cam Newton - The best combination of production, youth, and upside. 3. Colin Kaepernick - After watching him in the playoffs, I may be tempted to place him #1 on this list. Seriously. He's a faster Cam Newton, a bigger RG3, and can legitimately throw the ball with great accuracy. 4. Drew Brees - Should be a top5 QB for the next 3-4 years, and a top10 QB for another 2-3 years after that. 5. Andrew Luck - Should be a stud when the O-Line gets shored up and when his weapons (Hilton, Fleener, Allen). 6. Matt Ryan - May not have the upside as a guy like Rodgers, Luck, or Newton, but should be a steady top7 QB who will be entering his prime. 7. Robert Griffin III - Could arguably #1 on this list if healthy; but we are figuring out that is a big IF. 8. Russel Wilson - He has proven that height will not effect his ability in the NFL. Won't run as many designed-runs, but extends plays and should near 500-700 rush yards and 5-8 scores per year. 9. Peyton Manning - Showed this year that he's past his neck injury. His arm might be even better next year, and his chemistry with his WR's certainly will be. Could have another 3-4 years of elite status. 10. Tom Brady - Should be elite for another few years. Welker's future, Gronk/Hernandez' injury concerns could lead to a sooner-than-expected decline. RB's: 1. Adrian Peterson - RB's have such a short life span that there will be TONS of turnover each year. Give me the #1 RB for the next few years. 2. Jamaal Charles - I love his potential with Andy Reid. Was under utilized with the last coaching regime; that shouldn't be a problem under Reid. 3. Doug Martin - I want to see more consistency out of him, but his O-Line will be even better next year. 4. C.J. Spiller - Similar situation with Charles. Gotta love his potential as a true #1 RB. Put up 1,700 yards and 8 TD's in a limited role. 5. Arian Foster - Should be a top5 RB for the next 2 seasons, but he's starting to rack the mileage. 1,243 touches (414 per season) over the past 3 seasons! 6. Trent Richardson - I'll attribute his low ypc to a slew of injuries. One of the better bets for 350+ touches a season over the next 4-5 years. 7. LeSean McCoy - I fully expect him to bounce back in 2013, and Chip Kelly's arrival could mean big things for McCoy. 8. Ray Rice - I'm not crazy about Rice's dynasty outlook for a few reasons. I actually think Bernard Pierce is a better "pure runner" than Rice. I also think the total touches will catch up to him before he turns 30. 9. Alfred Morris - He's definitely more than a product of that system; but I always worry about Shanahan RB's. Plus, how much of his production is tied to a healthy RG3? 10. Marshawn Lynch - Seems to have figured out the NFL with back-to-back impressive seasons after a slow start to his career. But I keep him this low because his running style makes him more susceptible to injuries/decline. WR's: 1. Calvin Johnson - Enough said. 2. Julio Jones - Not only will he continue to get better, but he'll become the focal point of that offense as Gonzo retires, and Turner/Roddy decline with age. 3. Demaryius Thomas - Is an absolute beast with PM in Denver. Will continue to get better and will continue to sync up with one of the greatest QB's of all-time. 4. A.J. Green - Some may have him higher, and it's hard to argue; but I just don't love his QB situation. Averaged only 1.5 points per target compared to 1.74 for both D.T. and Julio. I don't think he'll see another 164 targets next year with Marvin/Sanu/Dawkins and Gresham's development. Still a stud though. 5. Randall Cobb - A bigger, more durable Percy Harvin. Averaged 1.87 ppt and his totals should benefit from Jenning's expected departure. 6. Dez Bryant - If he keeps his head on straight, he could be Calvin's biggest threat as best WR in the NFL. But it's hard to trust his half-season of work against his other 2.5 seasons of inconsistency. 7. Brandon Marshall - Hard to see him getting 194 targets again next season, and has only had 2 seasons with more than 7 TD's. 8. Percy Harvin - Was an absolute monster when healthy, but not extremely durable. Definitely want to monitor his contract situation though. Despite Minny's bad offense, they always made Harvin a focal point. 9. Victor Cruz - Really tailed off at the end of the season, probably because of Nicks' injury and Eli's dead arm. I think the first half of 2012 (52/650/7) is more telling than the second half (34/442/3). 10. Michael Crabtree - The light finally turned on, and apparently all it took was a QB change. I think Kaepernick is here to stay, and so is Crabtree. TE's: 1. Jimmy Graham - Led all TE's in production despite a down season. Look for a bounce-back season with Payton's return. 2. Rob Gronkowski - Is averaging .88 TD's per game in his career which projects to 14 per season. Only question is durability. 3. Aaron Hernandez - Is a matchup nightmare and Brady loves utilizing him. Honorable Mentions (If you don't get one of those 3 TE's, who really cares who you end up with!) Jermaine Gresham - Seems to be Dalton's #2 option and teams will continue to show A.J. Green more and more attention. Tyler Eifert (Notre Dame TE) - I've only watched limited tape of him, but he looks like he could be the next Gronk (at least catching the ball).

Agreed on most of your points. I wasn't pointing to anyone on this board blaming a lack of deep-threat. I live 5 minutes outside of Boston, and all I've heard the last 2 days have been: -Welker sucks and his drops cost us last year's SB and a chance to go back this year. -Brady just needed a deep-threat. It's just amusing that such a large portion of the analysis/discussions is focused around Welker hate and the lack of a pass-rush when Brady & Belichick have continued to be outplayed/coached for the better part of 6 post-seasons now. That the team has no toughness. And you're right, they have become the very team that they used to beat. And they've lost to teams that mirror the early 2000's Patriots. Maybe now they'll have a bit more sympathy & understanding about Peyton's playoff resume (random stat - he actually has a higher post-season QB Rating than Brady). Aaron Rodgers Drew Brees Peyton Manning Tom Brady Eli Manning Ben Roethlisberger Matt Ryan Might sound crazy, but: Colin Kaepernick Russel Wilson Cam Newton Andrew Luck Robert Griffin III (depending on his recovery) I know you'll call me crazy for listing those 5 after seeing such limited work from all of them, but 2 years from now we can look back at this discussion Don't let the last 3 games fool you. Joe Flacco has been an inconsistent QB for his entire career - embarrassingly bad at his worst, and top10 at his best. It wasn't until the last 3 games that Flacco has actually played well for a stretch of important games. And he did it against a Colts & Patriots defense that was college-esque. He played fairly well against Denver, but was gift-wrapped 70 yards and a TD on the worst defensive play in NFL history. In fact, if that play doesn't happen, we'd be talking about whether or not Baltimore would even re-sign Flacco this off-season.

I'll head over there and add my $.02

It's the system. Brady, Belichick, McDaniels, whomever you want to give credit to - came up with a system to spread out big defenses in order to create space for a quick, timing, accurate-based attack. Obviously they weren't going 5-wide in 2004, but the system has never required a bunch of down-field threats for Brady to be successful. They are very good at it, obviously. It plays into Brady's strengths - accuracy, quick-decision making, and gets the ball out of his hands quickly so he doesn't have to "duck" out of the way of pressure (face it, he sucks when he gets pressured consistently). Teams started realizing that you can simply crowd the line of scrimmage, jam their receivers, and throw the entire offense out of sync. They've (the Pats) consistently struggled against physical teams like the Jets, Giants, and Ravens. The way for the Patriots to combat that was to take the top off a defense with a deep threat. It's why they acquired Randy Moss in 2007 and why they acquired Brandon Lloyd in 2012. Obviously Lloyd hasn't been a great deep-threat, but throwing the deep ball has NEVER been a strength of Brady's. In 2007, he was either throwing to a wide-open Moss, or into double coverage and having Moss make an incredible play. Finally, I'm sick of Patriots fans claiming they don't have a deep-threat and that's why their offense has been horrendous in big games since 2006. Find me a team that has everything. The Colts/Manning couldn't run the ball and their OLine fell off the last 5 years. The Ravens have lacked an elite QB the last 5 years (don't let 3 games fool you). The Packers can't run the ball or protect Rodgers. The Giants couldn't run the ball either. It didn't stop any of these teams from winning big games and ultimately a SB (not the Ravens, yet). The Patriots have a great QB, a great pass-blocking AND run-blocking OLine (very rare these days to be both), the best slot-WR in the league, and at least 1 healthy top3 TE in the league. And Lloyd is every bit a solid WR on the outside. Not to mention the best coach of our generation. And they haven't played well and won a big-game since 2005 really. 7 years. 6 disappointing/under-achieving postseasons and 1 year making Matt Cassel look competent.

Are there any websites that provide Dynasty capabilities at no cost? It may sound cheap, but as a long-time Commissioner, I always track roster changes/scoring/etc. offline just in case we ever run into tech problems. I think it'd be pretty easy for me to track rosters year-to-year (if it came to that) and manually input them into Yahoo/CBS/ESPN/etc. each off-season. After searching the internet, talking to friends, and trying to join existing leagues, I will probably be starting a local Dynasty League with some friends and "friends-of-friends". It probably won't be as competitive as your average Dynasty League, but at least it will fulfill my year-long fix for fantasy football. But enough about me! Thanks for all the responses here, I really appreciate the feed-back. Now everyone can get back to enjoying that embarrassing Patriots loss But seriously, should we get into a Dynasty Rankings discussion?

Thanks everyone for the initial responses. I nearly joined a league today that lost a few managers last year (their first season). I thought the team was decent, but still a year or 2 away from competing so I'd rather that NOT be my first Dynasty League experience. One thing about that league that intrigued me, however, was a salary cap. I believe players were given up to a 4-year contract, and could be franchised for 1 season after that (a franchised player was treated like a FA - the other teams bid on that franchised player, than the original owner is given the option to retain the player for 90% of his highest bid, or let him walk to that highest bidder). And contract that expired became a FA, open to bid on by every team. I assume the start-up to this scenario is an auction format? I don't have any experience in that format, but have a lot of interest. As far as league-size, I'd prefer to keep it around 10-12 people. I know some people think that 14-16 teams is the way to go, but that's more owners, potentially more problems/drop-outs, and forces these new-comers to know/research an extra 25% of the league/rookies/college players. Anybody interested in a 10-12 team start-up Dynasty League with an auction format? And how feasible is it to find a website that will allow this?

I wanted to start a thread about 2013 Rankings. But rather than everybody's obvious choices at the top, I was more interested in discussing the 2nd & 3rd Tier players. RB's: After AP, Foster, and Rice, how do you rank guys like Charles, Lynch, McCoy - furthermore; who makes up the list from #7-15? QB's: After Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Manning, Ryan, and Newton, who do you like from #7-12? Stafford? Romo? Kaep? Wilson? RG3/Luck? WR's: Let's dig a little bit deeper. We know that the first ~8 WR's will likely be Calvin, BMarshall, Andre, A.J. Green, DThomas, Dez, and Julio. Who are the next 10-15 WR's that you like as reliable #2's? TE's: After monster 2011 seasons, both Gronk & Graham regressed statistically in 2012. Yet they still put up #2 WR numbers, which I believe makes them much more valuable than #2 WR's and even low-end #1 because of the advantage it provides you at the TE position. With Gonzalez likely retiring, the TE position falls off quicker (& steeper) than any other position. So where would you rank Gronk & Graham?

A few things: 1 - The 2011 Broncos were 8-8 with like 6 last-second miracle wins from Tebow. They actually had the T-7th best record in the AFC (one of 4 teams at 8-8). They crept into the playoffs losers of 3 straight games thanks to the 3rd tiebreaker. Their offense scored 309 points and their team was outscored by 81 points. Fast forward to 2012 - they finished 13-3, winning 11 straight games by 7+ points. They finished with the best record in the AFC. Their offense scored 481 points and they outscored their opponents by 192 points. That 273 point turnaround is the 2nd greatest of all-time. Last year they were a fluke. This year they are a legitimate SB contender. 2 - Does it really matter if a player takes a team from really, really bad to kinda good? Or if a player takes a team from kinda good to elite? I believe Adrian Peterson took a pretty bad Vikings team (4-7 wins)and carried them (barely) into the playoffs. But lets be honest, everybody knew they would be 1-and-done because they aren't a very good team - certainly not an elite team that was going to contend for a SB. I believe Peyton Manning took a pretty solid Broncos team (6-9 wins) and has catapulted them to, quite possibly, the best team in the NFL. Uhh, really? Let me introduce you to the term "HINDSIGHT". Nearly everybody was questioning Manning's health and ability all off-season. Actually, it carried over into the first ~month of the season before Manning started putting up his regular numbers.