Phil_Simms 0 Posted October 21, 2008 You don't know what you think you know. http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/20...y-lawsuit_N.htm By Joan Biskupic, USA TODAY WASHINGTON — The Supreme Court on Monday let a fantasy sports league operator continue using baseball statistics and players' names without paying licensing fees, in a closely watched case at the heart of the $1.5 billion fantasy sports industry. With no comment or recorded vote, the justices refused to intervene in a dispute between a St. Louis company and Major League Baseball. The court's action leaves intact a 2007 U.S. appeals court decision that said the First Amendment supersedes state "rights of publicity" law that normally lets sports figures and celebrities control how their names and identities are used. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
De Novo 0 Posted October 21, 2008 I guess I don't understand. On the stock market Corporations generate money by selling a product to the world market and earn a profit which is shared by the stock holders. The stock also rises as more people invest in the company, this is a main cause of the bubbles you refer to. As I understand it this scheme only has the second option. Their market is only the people involved in the scheme. That is why the people that are already in need to recruit new people (money) so their "virtual" asset will grow. What am I missing? How else can a player's value increase? Any explanation would be appreciated because if this is not correct I am completely confused. On your first sentences, this is more like a dividend-less stock. I agree that this is unlike stocks that pay dividends. On your last few sentences, it doesn't require new people... just new money (which could come from existing players or new players) which fundamentally isn't different from the stock or options market. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
De Novo 0 Posted October 21, 2008 The market is going crazy! It will collapse. Just a matter of time. The way the IPO allocation process works is a joke, and favors the 1st people on the site, who are almost certain to be the close friends of insiders. IPOs are allocated based on how long you've been on the site, how often you are on the site, and (I think) how much money you have. So, the same people keep getting the IPOs at ridiculously low prices. I tried making a big move into this site, knowing it would have a period of rapid growth and then an eventual collapse, but I couldn't get allocated a single IPO and prices doubled almost immediately after issue. Ultimately, the undoing will be begin as a result of excess supply (like the baseball card industry circa 2000) and B-rate retired players are being IPO'ed. This latest blow-up could easily be manipulated by insiders, buying small volumes of shares at high prices, then dumping larger amounts at lower prices. It's only a matter of time before this site gets shut down, and your "assets" might be worth nothing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phil_Simms 0 Posted October 21, 2008 Everybody knows everything. It won't work for this reason, it won't work for that reason, blah, blah blah. Thanks for all the advice. Since I posted this topic a few weeks ago I have taken my initial investment out and my account currently is five figures. That is buying secondary market stock, not the IPOs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
De Novo 0 Posted October 21, 2008 Everybody knows everything. It won't work for this reason, it won't work for that reason, blah, blah blah. Thanks for all the advice. Since I posted this topic a few weeks ago I have taken my initial investment out and my account currently is five figures. That is buying secondary market stock, not the IPOs. Best of luck. I hope you're comfortable losing five figures overnight. If not, you may want to limit your exposure. The market is based on speculation and speculation alone, and once a dozen sites come out copycatting this same site, One Season is done unless they can somehow differentiate themselves in the eyes of speculators. The only thing they have going for them is that they (might be/are) the first surviving site. Once the next site comes along offering more, people will lose interest in this one. If you can determine the actual $ invested in the entire market (and thus, purchasing power), the rate of new investment, and the amount of shares traded, then you could potentially predict the bubble's collapse. Do they disclose all trades? You could reverse engineer the aforementioned. The "value" or market cap of the market cannot be supported by the $ currently invested in the site. It's a question of, by how much? I would guess it's a big number. I cannot imagine $3.5M of real money being invested on that site. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PackYourNut 47 Posted October 21, 2008 You don't know what you think you know. http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/20...y-lawsuit_N.htm By Joan Biskupic, USA TODAY WASHINGTON — The Supreme Court on Monday let a fantasy sports league operator continue using baseball statistics and players' names without paying licensing fees, in a closely watched case at the heart of the $1.5 billion fantasy sports industry. With no comment or recorded vote, the justices refused to intervene in a dispute between a St. Louis company and Major League Baseball. The court's action leaves intact a 2007 U.S. appeals court decision that said the First Amendment supersedes state "rights of publicity" law that normally lets sports figures and celebrities control how their names and identities are used. Statistics and publicly available information are entirely different then using a persons name to make money. If you owned KobeBryant.com, they could sue you and take the domain away in a heartbeat. I don't care to discuss the details since you apparently are already a "believer", but I can assure you that what's going on is not going to fly. Follow the heard if you must, but when they take your dumba$$ off a cliff dont be surprised! Anyone can say Pamela Anderson ###### are 34D's, but you cant use her name to make yourself money. At least not for long! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phil_Simms 0 Posted October 21, 2008 If you can determine the actual $ invested in the entire market (and thus, purchasing power), the rate of new investment, and the amount of shares traded, then you could potentially predict the bubble's collapse. That is exactly what I am doing. There is a chart that shows the market cap of the entire market. The inflow of new cash everyday keeps growing and far exceeds any dilution from new issues. When it starts to slow down I'll begin taking profits but so far no sign of that. I know the risks. It could all be gone tomorrow or it could be the next big thing. Fantasy sports is $1.5 billion industry. I've watched the Sports Market go from $28k market cap to $4 million in less than three weeks. Maybe it goes to $100 million +. Nobody knows. You are assuming it is a bubble. What if it is the equilvent of the baseball card for the 21st century? No risk, no reward. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phil_Simms 0 Posted October 21, 2008 Statistics and publicly available information are entirely different then using a persons name to make money. If you owned KobeBryant.com, they could sue you and take the domain away in a heartbeat. I don't care to discuss the details since you apparently are already a "believer", but I can assure you that what's going on is not going to fly. Follow the heard if you must, but when they take your dumba$$ off a cliff dont be surprised! Anyone can say Pamela Anderson ###### are 34D's, but you cant use her name to make yourself money. At least not for long! The U.S. Court of Appeals disagrees but I guess you know better. U.S. appeals court decision that said the First Amendment supersedes state "rights of publicity" law that normally lets sports figures and celebrities control how their names and identities are used. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
De Novo 0 Posted October 21, 2008 That is exactly what I am doing. There is a chart that shows the market cap of the entire market. The inflow of new cash everyday keeps growing and far exceeds any dilution from new issues. When it starts to slow down I'll begin taking profits but so far no sign of that. I know the risks. It could all be gone tomorrow or it could be the next big thing. Fantasy sports is $1.5 billion industry. I've watched the Sports Market go from $28k market cap to $4 million in less than three weeks. Maybe it goes to $100 million +. Nobody knows. You are assuming it is a bubble. What if it is the equilvent of the baseball card for the 21st century? No risk, no reward. Market cap is not the same as the $ invested in the site. Market cap is calculated based on the latest trade. I believe that number will be SIGNIFICANTLY higher than the actual $ invested in the site. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phil_Simms 0 Posted October 21, 2008 Market cap is not the same as the $ invested in the site. Market cap is calculated based on the latest trade. I believe that number will be SIGNIFICANTLY higher than the actual $ invested in the site. You are correct. I should have phrased it better. The market cap and volume together display a trend of $ invested and the trend is . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
De Novo 0 Posted October 21, 2008 You are correct. I should have phrased it better. The market cap and volume together display a trend of $ invested and the trend is . Volume and $ invested are totally independent. If I sell LeBron to the Kobe owner for $100 and turn around and buy Kobe for $100, no new money has been added. In fact, because of One Season's commissions, money has been removed from the system. The $ invested vs. the market cap gives a sense for how big the "bubble" is. If only $100,000 has been deposited in One Season but the Market Cap is $3.5 Million, that is a $3.4M bubble that WILL burst unless new money is deposited into the site. That bubble or "paper earnings" illusion is where this is different from a pyramid scheme, and likely to collapse faster. In a way it's more insidious. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phurfur 70 Posted October 21, 2008 Everybody knows everything. It won't work for this reason, it won't work for that reason, blah, blah blah. Thanks for all the advice. Since I posted this topic a few weeks ago I have taken my initial investment out and my account currently is five figures. That is buying secondary market stock, not the IPOs. Good move getting your initial investment out but you need to have a firm plan in place with the rest of your money. I would take a set dollar amount (it could be $10,000) and pull 50% out when you hit that number and play with the rest. When you hit your set amount again pull 50% again. When your money is gone you are done and can walk away with a profit. If you are correct you will have income for the rest of your life. I do believe this is a bad gamble for people that are not in yet. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PackYourNut 47 Posted October 21, 2008 The U.S. Court of Appeals disagrees but I guess you know better. U.S. appeals court decision that said the First Amendment supersedes state "rights of publicity" law that normally lets sports figures and celebrities control how their names and identities are used. Ummm no... That is not the case... The part of First Amendment your referring to is Freedom of Speech... Which means I can say anything I want about a public figure. You CAN NOT use that persons name, likeness or other "property" to make money. Granted you wont be punished for any of this... So make hay while the sun shines! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stewburtx8 67 Posted October 21, 2008 While I still don't know if I totally grasp the concept of how this is working, as their seems to be varying opinions, most of which stating this can't last... I guess my question would be....why can't this continue to grow and bring in more money?? Fantasy sports are a $1 billion industry. Sports gambling is soo big its impossible to even quantify with all the offshore sites out there. Just the money bet in Vegas each year is astronomically. So I ask, why wouldn't this site have a HUGE demographic? People are interested in sports, fantasy sports, and gambling, not to mention trying to make money in general. This just screams to me as something that people will take a shot at. Even if individuals just invest $50-100 at first and give it a shot for fun...if they start making a few bucks they will be inclined to invest more, tell their friends and family, and so forth. This could cause a huge boom in the money invested in this site and the daily trading. Also considering 3 new IPO's are released daily, this will just open up new areas and items to invest in. While I stated previously I don't quite know exactly how this is going to work, as buying "intangible assets" does seem kind of stupid, my main question is why wouldn't money flow into this site??? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
spyderdude 0 Posted October 21, 2008 Anyone who invest in oneseason.com is just stupid because it has no real value. Some say it is digital age and we are trading digital/virtual good but this is not authentic and has no link to the actual players. In other words, I can simply spend $19/month and create a site that does the samething and call it twoseason.com. guess what? i can IPO everything all over again. you have to realize that it is totally different from the stock market because people can create unlimited amount of these so called virtual sports stock market. Any websites can have jordan, kobe, montana, and other sports legends. The only way for this site have any worth is by letting the players do actual IPO and sign them exclusively to endorse their site only. That way, they will worth something. Right now, you can pay someone in India $500 to build a same site. You can create your own market. it is a matter of time for people to realize that it is just a bubble. Soon the bubble will burst and everyone will lose money. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phurfur 70 Posted October 21, 2008 While I still don't know if I totally grasp the concept of how this is working, as their seems to be varying opinions, most of which stating this can't last... I guess my question would be....why can't this continue to grow and bring in more money?? Fantasy sports are a $1 billion industry. Sports gambling is soo big its impossible to even quantify with all the offshore sites out there. Just the money bet in Vegas each year is astronomically. So I ask, why wouldn't this site have a HUGE demographic? People are interested in sports, fantasy sports, and gambling, not to mention trying to make money in general. This just screams to me as something that people will take a shot at. Even if individuals just invest $50-100 at first and give it a shot for fun...if they start making a few bucks they will be inclined to invest more, tell their friends and family, and so forth. This could cause a huge boom in the money invested in this site and the daily trading. Also considering 3 new IPO's are released daily, this will just open up new areas and items to invest in. While I stated previously I don't quite know exactly how this is going to work, as buying "intangible assets" does seem kind of stupid, my main question is why wouldn't money flow into this site??? Money will flow into this product, it will be your money. For every dollar someone makes someone else has to lose. There is no product here just people putting money in a pot. Since the site is taking a percentage of each transaction there will be more losers than winners. This is different from Casino gambling because the earlier you get in the better your chance is to win. Schemes like this eventually collapse and I don't see this one being any different. The key point is that THERE IS NO PRODUCT. Once people start selling off or stop putting money in it will be game over. Can't people see that everyone can't win? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stewburtx8 67 Posted October 21, 2008 Money will flow into this product, it will be your money. For every dollar someone makes someone else has to lose. There is no product here just people putting money in a pot. Since the site is taking a percentage of each transaction there will be more losers than winners. This is different from Casino gambling because the earlier you get in the better your chance is to win. Schemes like this eventually collapse and I don't see this one being any different. The key point is that THERE IS NO PRODUCT. Once people start selling off or stop putting money in it will be game over. Can't people see that everyone can't win? Yes I can see that, and it's why I wouldn't invest, or why if I would, it would just be a $100 lottery ticket that this thing can keep going. Here are some interesting facts about the site... * Adults can open an account for as little as $10, but the amount a user can transfer into the system for any 12-month period is capped at $2,500. * Users can cash out at any time, just like investing in stocks on the New York Stock Exchange. * Initial Player Offerings, or IPOs, on OneSeason.com will be priced at $5 a share, with volume determined by demand. IPOs will come out at the rate of three a day, five days a week, at least initially. * IPO shares will be allocated on a first-come, first-serve basis (70 percent), as well as based on time spent on the site (15 percent) and trading activity (15 percent). * Shares automatically split when they close at $20 or more, and reverse split when closing at 50 cents or less. * OneSeason's market research suggests early adopters will be men aged 18-34, with an account size in the range of $100. However, as the fantasy sports industry has an older, wealthier demographic, the company expects those figures to get respectively older and larger as the website matures. * The San Francisco-based company, which employs 14 people, was founded in June 2007. Testing on the website started in January 2008. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phurfur 70 Posted October 21, 2008 Yes I can see that, and it's why I wouldn't invest, or why if I would, it would just be a $100 lottery ticket that this thing can keep going. Here are some interesting facts about the site... * Adults can open an account for as little as $10, but the amount a user can transfer into the system for any 12-month period is capped at $2,500. * Users can cash out at any time, just like investing in stocks on the New York Stock Exchange. * Initial Player Offerings, or IPOs, on OneSeason.com will be priced at $5 a share, with volume determined by demand. IPOs will come out at the rate of three a day, five days a week, at least initially. * IPO shares will be allocated on a first-come, first-serve basis (70 percent), as well as based on time spent on the site (15 percent) and trading activity (15 percent). * Shares automatically split when they close at $20 or more, and reverse split when closing at 50 cents or less. * OneSeason's market research suggests early adopters will be men aged 18-34, with an account size in the range of $100. However, as the fantasy sports industry has an older, wealthier demographic, the company expects those figures to get respectively older and larger as the website matures. * The San Francisco-based company, which employs 14 people, was founded in June 2007. Testing on the website started in January 2008. Except for people addicted to gambling I can't see guys over 35 putting money into this. Most of us have learned that these schemes only work out for the minority of the people. Assuming the site takes a 2% cut on each transaction, if you make $100 on a transaction someone else would have to lose $104. (2 bucks for each transaction to the site) THERE WILL ALWAYS BE MORE LOSERS THAN WINNERS! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
itsbigmoni 1 Posted October 21, 2008 My big problem with this, is that the market can be artificially influenced. Everyone can get together and say, we're not paying more than x amount for player y. Then you'd be focked. A players value is related to his popularity so its way too subjective. Sure, in the stock market speculation is a huge part, but so is actual performance. I wouldn't put money in this, especially with the way its set up favoring early people. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
De Novo 0 Posted October 21, 2008 My big problem with this, is that the market can be artificially influenced. Everyone can get together and say, we're not paying more than x amount for player y. Then you'd be focked. A players value is related to his popularity so its way too subjective. Sure, in the stock market speculation is a huge part, but so is actual performance. I wouldn't put money in this, especially with the way its set up favoring early people. This is like a 9 year old's explanation Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phil_Simms 0 Posted October 24, 2008 Wall Street Journal This market has been on a run. I have never seen anything like it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
De Novo 0 Posted October 24, 2008 Wall Street Journal This market has been on a run. I have never seen anything like it. Wow. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bouve 0 Posted October 24, 2008 De Novo nailed this thing long ago and anyone who thinks about getting involved in this is crazy. It needs constant new money to work and once the luster of it has worn off and they are no longer able to get new customers, it will be dead in the water. Just looking at their top 10 on their main page, the market worth is over $3,000,000. Are you going to tell me that this company has the means to fork over $3,000,000 if these people decided they were going to dump their stock and cash out? And that is only for 10 players. I expect there to be alot of pissed of people in the coming months as more and more people fall for this thing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
De Novo 0 Posted October 24, 2008 Just looking at their top 10 on their main page, the market worth is over $3,000,000. Are you going to tell me that this company has the means to fork over $3,000,000 if these people decided they were going to dump their stock and cash out? And that is only for 10 players. OneSeason won't have to. A buyer will, and there is NOT an excess of $3M sitting around in the market at the current moment. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bouve 0 Posted October 25, 2008 OneSeason won't have to. A buyer will, and there is NOT an excess of $3M sitting around in the market at the current moment. And probably will never be. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phil_Simms 0 Posted October 25, 2008 Just looking at their top 10 on their main page, the market worth is over $3,000,000. Are you going to tell me that this company has the means to fork over $3,000,000 if these people decided they were going to dump their stock and cash out? And that is only for 10 players. do you know how a stock market works? The money is coming from people investing in the market not coming from the company. It is there. They have been putting it in ever since you have been saying it wasn't going to work. If 10k people put in 300 bucks that is your $3 million. How many do you think saw the WSJ article? How many fantasy players, investors, gamblers are there in the country? Fantasy is a $1 billion industry, gambling is billions and investing is trillions and you don't think they can do $3 million. This web site is just getting started. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dimenally 1 Posted October 25, 2008 Well if they are giving away a free $10 to a certain number of people who join (apparently first 10,000 to join up?), then that creates some "unbacked" money right from the start. That's money that was just created out of thin air to get people started and obviously would need to come out of the company's profits if everyone ever cashed fully out. However, if you're looking at a total market of over $11Million at the end of tonight, IF they have around 10,000 people playing, and only $100,000 of it is "fake" or "created" currency, then the other $10.9Million would have to be generated from actual deposits made by people. Looking at it, it doesn't seem like it could work any other way. I mean, a dude might get $10 "monopoly" money to start with, but if he wants to buy a piece of Michael Jordan at $40, he HAS to put in another REAL $30 to even do the transaction...or have done transactions where someone ELSE has put real money in. Even if the other $30 actually traced back to 3 people losing their original "fake" $10, that fake money seems to be only a small part of the market. The calculations would seem to support that. IF every registered person did put in the full $2,500, and it were at a mark around 10,000 registrants, that would be $25,000,000 of real money in the system. Now clearly, not everyone has deposited that much or hasn't USED their full buying power, if the market is only at 11Mil...but I can see half the people (maybe 5,000 people or so?) there having deposits over $1,000...and that'd be maybe $5-9 Million. The other $2 million could be attributed to the deposits of the other half of the people. Just averages, obviously, but it seems like it's feasible this could be true. And if only $100,000 of that was "created from nowhere" then there seems to be a large marjority of REAL cash in the system for people to shuffle around. *shrug* Dunno...looks interesting but some good points were made about competitors doing look-alike products, taking away some of the shiny newness! However, if you can get market penetration and word-of-mouth, plus develop yourself as the Popular Culture choice, you can succeed even with competitors. I mean...there are some alternatives to something like Second Life...which deals with virtual reality and ownership. Couldn't the same argument be made that Second Life is a horrible business model because some company in India could have easily made "Third Life" or "Fourth Life" and it would disappear into irrelevance? Obviously that hasn't happened. Seems like a good thing for the people who got in early and plan to take back what they put in and play with what's left. It might even stabilize and be a cool game down the road, once a lot of the money is made and the market drops to realistic levels. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
De Novo 0 Posted October 25, 2008 However, if you're looking at a total market of over $11Million at the end of tonight, IF they have around 10,000 people playing, and only $100,000 of it is "fake" or "created" currency, then the other $10.9Million would have to be generated from actual deposits made by people. No, and I get so sick of people opining on financial matters without having a fukcing clue what they are talking about, and not even mentioning they don't know sh1t and are just guessing. All it takes is ONE FOCKING TRADE to determine the market cap. OK? There is NOT 10.9 sitting in the market. There are people sitting on theoretical value of $11.0 M but if every person tried to cash out at once, the actual realized value would be the total $ that have been invested less cumulative transaction fees, which I can almost guarantee is under $1M. Looking at it, it doesn't seem like it could work any other way. Wrong. The calculations would seem to support that. No, they don't Now clearly, not everyone has deposited that much or hasn't USED their full buying power, if the market is only at 11Mil...but I can see half the people (maybe 5,000 people or so?) there having deposits over $1,000 You could see it, but you'd be wrong. 50% of people ponying up $1k+? Seriously? With thousands of users sitting on starting $10 balances with no additional deposits because it's so focking tough to deposits. 0% chance >50% of users have $1,000k deposits. Banks will not let you directly deposit to the site. Think about "why?" for a moment. *shrug* Dunno...looks interesting but some good points were made about competitors doing look-alike products, taking away some of the shiny newness! However, if you can get market penetration and word-of-mouth, plus develop yourself as the Popular Culture choice, you can succeed even with competitors. I mean...there are some alternatives to something like Second Life...which deals with virtual reality and ownership. Couldn't the same argument be made that Second Life is a horrible business model because some company in India could have easily made "Third Life" or "Fourth Life" and it would disappear into irrelevance? Obviously that hasn't happened. Second life has specific proprietary things you can purchase (and for what it's worth, it will also collapse). There is NOTHING proprietary here. It's LeBron James. They are IPO'ing retired players, for God's sake! Why don't they just IPO Frank focking Sinatra???? Seems like a good thing for the people who got in early and plan to take back what they put in and play with what's left. It might even stabilize and be a cool game down the road, once a lot of the money is made and the market drops to realistic levels. Uh huh, it's a bubble and a pyramid scheme. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phurfur 70 Posted October 25, 2008 do you know how a stock market works? The money is coming from people investing in the market not coming from the company. It is there. They have been putting it in ever since you have been saying it wasn't going to work. If 10k people put in 300 bucks that is your $3 million. How many do you think saw the WSJ article? How many fantasy players, investors, gamblers are there in the country? Fantasy is a $1 billion industry, gambling is billions and investing is trillions and you don't think they can do $3 million. This web site is just getting started. No matter what you say, more money will be lost than made (remember the site takes a cut). This site will work for some people but many more people will lose. It is simple economics. What everyone is arguing with you about is that you are painting a picture that everyone can win; this is impossible because there is no actual product. Personally I think you are trying to drum up business since that is the only way you can make money. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phil_Simms 0 Posted October 26, 2008 No matter what you say, more money will be lost than made (remember the site takes a cut). This site will work for some people but many more people will lose. It is simple economics. What everyone is arguing with you about is that you are painting a picture that everyone can win; this is impossible because there is no actual product. Personally I think you are trying to drum up business since that is the only way you can make money. I never said everyone can win. It is a game. Some people win and some people lose with the house taking their cut. Similar to a poker game in a casino. What I did say was a lot of people will want to play the game and be willing to buy virtual assets and so far I seem to be correct. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phil_Simms 0 Posted October 26, 2008 No, and I get so sick of people opining on financial matters without having a fukcing clue what they are talking about, and not even mentioning they don't know sh1t and are just guessing. All it takes is ONE FOCKING TRADE to determine the market cap. OK? There is NOT 10.9 sitting in the market. There are people sitting on theoretical value of $11.0 M but if every person tried to cash out at once, the actual realized value would be the total $ that have been invested less cumulative transaction fees, which I can almost guarantee is under $1M. Wrong. No, they don't You could see it, but you'd be wrong. 50% of people ponying up $1k+? Seriously? With thousands of users sitting on starting $10 balances with no additional deposits because it's so focking tough to deposits. 0% chance >50% of users have $1,000k deposits. Banks will not let you directly deposit to the site. Think about "why?" for a moment. Second life has specific proprietary things you can purchase (and for what it's worth, it will also collapse). There is NOTHING proprietary here. It's LeBron James. They are IPO'ing retired players, for God's sake! Why don't they just IPO Frank focking Sinatra???? Uh huh, it's a bubble and a pyramid scheme. Your just guessing too. Your analysis about how the market works is correct. Money invested is a percentage of the market cap but your assumptions as to the numbers are wrong. I am doing my homework. I have ways of making an educated guess of user growth and the average investment per user. I am not pulling numbers out of the air. It is not $1k but it is higher than you think. There are more and more people putting in real money everyday. The concept and market is brand new and for now it is just hyper growth. There is a bubble but it is not a pyramid. At some point there will be a huge correction and the market will eventually mature. The market cap and money invested will more closely align. It will be a game that people will want to play. There is nothing proprietary but there is an advantage of being the first mover and building a brand. I came across the site and saw the potential. Fantasy, stock market and gambling are huge. Virtual assets are a new concept I believe will stick. There are many risks that could derail this site. I could make a list a page long. Or it could turn into the next big thing. I don't know the answer and neither do you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
De Novo 0 Posted October 26, 2008 There is a bubble but it is not a pyramid. At some point there will be a huge correction and the market will eventually mature. No, it is also a pyramid. There is a capped $ load per year. $2,500. And trading commissions constantly pull money out of the market. So, it's growth and survival is contingent upon new members joining. Sure, it's not a true Ponzi scheme but the fundamentals are the same. In the long run, we're all dead. And so is every company out there. You could make a ton of money in the mean time. I don't dispute that. I am talking about the fundamentals of this "business". I hope you make a ton of money I really do. I tried depositing $1,000 as a gamble I could afford to lose; but I had no means of loading. If I did, I'd be doing the same thing you are. But it doesn't change the fundamentals. It's not a good "business" to get into, but it's a good time to. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phil_Simms 0 Posted October 26, 2008 No, it is also a pyramid. There is a capped $ load per year. $2,500. And trading commissions constantly pull money out of the market. So, it's growth and survival is contingent upon new members joining. Sure, it's not a true Ponzi scheme but the fundamentals are the same. In the long run, we're all dead. And so is every company out there. You could make a ton of money in the mean time. I don't dispute that. I am talking about the fundamentals of this "business". I hope you make a ton of money I really do. I tried depositing $1,000 as a gamble I could afford to lose; but I had no means of loading. If I did, I'd be doing the same thing you are. But it doesn't change the fundamentals. It's not a good "business" to get into, but it's a good time to. Thanks. I have made a ton. You wouldn't believe it if i told you. It is not real until I cash the check though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bouve 0 Posted November 3, 2008 From the looks of things the market has crashed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
De Novo 0 Posted November 4, 2008 From the looks of things the market has crashed. Looks that way. For a while though, the guys who got $10 free will buy a couple shares of so-and-so... so I think there will be a somewhat prolonged fall before finally crashing. The company will soon file for bankruptcy, given the lack of available capital and liquidity for a company like this. And the "game" will be over. Better read the Ts and Cs carefully to see whether you have the 1st and only claim on your deposits, or whether there are any liens on your money or whether creditors collateralized loans using your money... I suspect the deposits are not guaranteed under any law. That's a serious concern when the site holds your money. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
De Novo 0 Posted December 2, 2008 Did you get all your money out? I hope so. Market has crashed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WhiteWonder 2,172 Posted December 2, 2008 thats great. i hope all the morons who put money into this scam lost a ton. how anyone could relate this to the actual stock market is beyond me. i wont list all the reasons this is/was a scam and not an actual market, it has been done numerous times by other posters just know that any market where the companies (in this case athletes), do not have to worry about investor relations, publish reports to their shareholders and offer someting in return, is not something you want to be involved in unless you simply like to gamble. real companies know the real stock market exists and WANT investors for their company and products.... the athletes you guys were "investing" in most likely don't even know this "market" exists and could care less who is "investing" in them. It doesn't have any effect on them at all. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PackYourNut 47 Posted December 2, 2008 Thank God for stupid people! Otherwise it would be a lot harder to make money! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phurfur 70 Posted December 2, 2008 Does anyone else want to invest in "virual assets"? virtual = of, relating to, or being a hypothetical particle whose existence is inferred from indirect evidence assets = the entire property of a person, association, corporation, or estate applicable or subject to the payment of debts I guess the investors will be paid off in virtual assets. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
