The Real timschochet

I just looked at over 10 polls on this subject. That’s enough to convince me. The REAL poll will be next November.

I’m sure they do. But they also don’t favor mass deportation or rounding them up. The polls are very clear about this. I’m not speaking for them, neither should you. They will speak for themselves at the next election.

Of course that group has a bias. But they link about 10 polls that do not. I haven’t seen the poll you’re referring to. Can you please link it? I’m skeptical it says what you’re claiming. But if it does it would have to be an outlier.

1. That’s not what the exit polls showed after the election and it’s not what they show now. So believe it if you want but the evidence does not support you. 2. Undocumented immigrants do not vote in significant numbers to influence any election in this country, national, state or local, much less be a decisive factor. If you have evidence to the contrary please provide it. Nobody ever has. 3. This conversation started with you questioning my patriotism not me questioning yours. FWIW I don’t question your patriotism but I believe you’re sadly mistaken about both what is good for America and what defines American values. Mistaken is not the same as deliberately opposed. I don’t think you’re a bad dude, just very very wrong about this issue. Please don’t question my patriotism either. 4. I’m not in favor of “open borders.” Nobody is. Unfortunately the term has become a catch all among conservatives for anyone who opposes a strictly law and order approach to this issue.

Rather than call me a liar or challenge my beliefs, because that will get us nowhere, answer me this: what is wrong with my above post? Where do you disagree and why?

Maybe because most country music performers who hate Obama suck even worse than hip hop performers?

Look nobody supports either open borders or undocumented immigration. Myself, I want a regulated, more fair, more open immigration system. And security at the borders. And the bad guys deported. I think most of the public wants that. But rounding up and deporting the millions of undocumented people already here- that’s insanity. It’s not any kind of solution. Just trying it, as the government is doing now, leads to all kinds of unfortunate outcomes. Plus it’s simply un-American. If they came here illegally, fine them. Allow them to work, allow them to stay on probation. Give them a long path to citizenship. Deport them immediately if they commit a violent crime. But otherwise leave them alone. And fix the whole immigration debacle.

What you fail to understand is that my main concern is not about undocumented immigrants but about us, legal Americans, and the way we treat them, it’s about us keeping our values, our recognition of what this country stands for. The United States is the greatest nation state in the history of this planet, without question. The main reason for our greatness, what makes us so different and better than the rest, is that we were founded not on ethnicity or territory but on a set of ideas and values. If we abandon those ideas and values in the name of security or law and order or xenophobia then we give up our greatness.

Latinos (the legal ones who can vote) supported Trump in significant numbers because they wanted prices lowered and they didn’t take him seriously about mass deportation. Now they do. That’s the votes your side is losing, along with independents and even some moderate Republicans who really don’t like this. Look at the polling; I’m not making it up. There will be hell to pay for Republicans in the next election. I know you think you’re on America’s side. But rounding up people in the dead of night, grabbing them off the street, arresting people who aren’t violent criminals, separating families- none of these things are pro-American. It’s not the sort of thing we do, even in the name of law and order. The public sees this. If you don’t, you’re sadly mistaken about patriotism and American values.

Wow. Why?

Trump is not devoted Israel. Trump is devoted, as always, to Trump, and whatever makes him looks good.

I am though. The history books will realize this even if you don’t.

I’m not in the minority. Mass deportation is incredibly unpopular: https://americasvoice.org/polls/203304/ It’s going to cost YOUR party votes not mine. Wake the fock up. You’re on the losing side.

Not according to public opinion. It remains very popular. Even among Republicans. Even among MAGA if you remove the word “Obamacare” and call it ACA.

Why do you care? Even for you this is an odd obsession.

Then they should have spent more.

You guys with your extremist views will not win this. There are too many patriots in this country who will not allow it. It’s a struggle right now but the anti-ICE folks will peacefully defeat you.

No.

No.

Nobody comes here with their hands out. The dishonesty is yours.

I didn’t miss it. I just don’t care. In the bigger scheme of things it means very little. Your obsession with it is disturbing.

I think you’re right.

Once again you continue to assume that because some of us want undocumented immigrants here to perform labor that means we have contempt for them. That’s wrong. Every free immigrant group that came to this country- without exception- started at the lowest rungs of society. Then they move up. We want them to move up. When they do another group comes in and performs the labor. That’s the way it’s always been. It’s the nature of a free mostly capitalist society.

Um no. My reason for skepticism is that I have tried to pretty carefully follow the Israeli- Palestinian conflict my entire life. As far as Donald Trump goes, while I haven’t been happy with his actions and statements about this issue in the past, and overall I think as you know that he is a horrible President, I have no current criticisms of his conduct here. In fact I support him here and think he is doing a very good job.

1. Never welched; stop lying. 2. Not calling any bets. I wrote they’re losing, not that they’ve lost. I’m happy they’re losing. But it’s self inflicted.