The Real timschochet

Yes the rust belt has lost money. But you can’t deny that overall the USA profited. It’s been a net gain.

It’s like you didn’t comprehend anything I just wrote. So let me make it simple for you: 1. Yes China is screwing us around. 2. We’re making a lot of money anyhow, too much money to blow it all up even though they’re screwing us around. Is that simple enough for you?

I’m not surprised to read this crap from the usual trolls but I am surprised to read it from you. There’s not a single person here who is “siding with China”. That’s a lot of crap. Many of us just don’t think a trade war is the right way to deal with China; it’s not to our benefit.

But you’re still ignoring the fact that they DO buy a lot of our goods. Sure, it’s not nearly as much as we buy of theirs. But it’s enough to make us a whole lot of money. Our relationship with them has been quite prosperous. I just don’t see the logic in blowing it up.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna200722 This surprised me given his rhetoric on the campaign but it really shouldn’t; he’s always been more reasonable on this subject when not talking to the hysterical MAGA crowd. It seems like a waste of time to deport people and then return them. Why not just change their status to legal? But despite that question I could be in favor of this plan.

Thank you President Trump for securing the release of the ballerina held prisoner by Russia. No criticism here, and no sarcasm. Seriously this was a job well done.

Bullsh!t. I don’t misrepresent anything. I know exactly where you’re going with this. You’ve read the right wing spin on this decision, the parsing of words, and you like that so you’ve adopted it as gospel and suddenly I’m unintelligent. This is your shtick; you’re full of crap as usual. What I wrote was accurate. This was a repudiation for Trump, a defeat. You don’t get to deport people without due process. That’s the way it is in a free country. If you don’t like it move to a dictatorship already.

You’re such a good example of “mindless member of the mob”.

Of course. It’s a 9-0 ruling and I think it’s very important and worth discussing. Feel free to ignore the thread if you don’t.

What I think a lot of you guys fail to realize is that despite China’s tariffs, despite the trade imbalance, despite their theft of AI, our trade with them has been incredibly great for us. We have profited immensely, It has helped made us the richest nation on Earth. It’s been a huge win. Sure it could be improved but do we really want to risk killing the golden goose? I don’t.

No Im not going to disagree with you. I agree with your assessment. And I don’t think it will destroy us. But it will be painful. But yes they need us more than we need them. But Xi is also right: there will be no winners here. We will not gain from this. Unless you think the ultimate result will be a happy, free and prosperous China trading honestly with us without trade barriers. Sure that would be a great outcome but I don’t see that as a possibility. Much more likely is a pissed off and resentful China looking to lash out and fock us at every opportunity. And I don’t want that.

Is your position that we maintain these Hugh tariffs until the government of China undergoes a revolution?

In this thread there have been several justifications of the tariffs based on the idea that we have to do something different because the national debt is so large (though the connection between tariffs and the national debt is tenuous at best). However the newly proposed Republican budget legislation increases the debt by 5 trillion dollars over the next 10 years. As usual with Republicans, they are choosing to cut taxes without cutting sufficient enough spending to cover it.

That’s a different issue and it’s mostly for show. You need to look at the big picture here. I’ve said all along that this whole mass deportation scheme is just an act, that it will never happen. You think Trump is really going to fock the farmers, restaurant owners, hotel owners? Never. This scheme is his way of letting the MAGA folks down gently.

Mine too. Actually I’ve gone further: I’ve always thought that even if an undocumented immigrant gets legal status, they should NEVER in their lifetime have the right to vote. I mean in the end they came here illegally and there’s got to be some kind of penalty for that, right? I’m not in favor of deportation but I don’t think they should be rewarded, ever, with the right of political representation. That’s my stance though I don’t know how that would work legally.

Raiders and I agree on an immigration issue! There is hope for the planet.

Now I think you’re being too cynical. If the government truly wanted to spend the money and time going after undocumented workers in our industries it wouldn’t be that difficult. There isn’t a need for subterfuge.

Based on that math OK. I’d actually be willing to wait 10 years or 20. So long as they have legal status and are safe from deportation so long as they don’t commit a violent crime.

And in your next post coming up, I’m sure you’ll explain what I got wrong and why my take is dumb.

Well I don’t know about $50k- that would take forever (perhaps that is your goal?) But I don’t mind the general idea. We can compromise on this.

OK we disagree. But let me show you the flaw in your argument: suppose the guy claims he is a citizen. The state says he isn’t. How do we know? We know by having an independent court look at the evidence. Can you see now why this is important? Whats to stop a government, Democratic or Republican, from deciding that anyone they don’t like isn’t a citizen? If they can avoid going to court, how can anyone stop it? Thats why we need due process for everyone be they citizen or not.

It isn’t. Things need to be done the right way.

I agree with you. If the solicitor general says he’s an MS-13 member and he says he isn’t then I assume he probably is. But “probably” isn’t good enough for our justice system. You gotta prove it in court. Now that should be relatively easy to do, but the Trump Adminstration chose to bypass that step. And I have a real problem with that. I don’t care if this dude is Charles Manson or Pol Pot. We have a system. Don’t you have a problem with this?

We expect the government to behave better than violent thugs.

I’m very glad that prices have gone down. But… 1. It would be hard for me or anyone else to explain what Trump has to do with it, if anything it’s a continuance of Biden’s policies already in place. Whatever Trump’s policies have been in relation to this issue (deregulation? More oil drilling?) it’s surely too soon for them to have any noticeable effect. 2. Unless Trump caves on the China tariffs, the tariffs on steel and aluminum and cars and 10% on all countries, prices are going to spike back up, probably higher than they ever were under Biden. This is almost an economic certainty.