The Real timschochet

If so, a pretty smart one. Smarter than you anyhow on this subject.

I think this will turn out to be right.

Look you’re going to find plenty of Democrats in the past making arguments for tariffs: that’s because government intervention in business is traditionally a liberal, not a conservative thing. But it’s a dumb argument by you because NOBODY in modern history has ever recommended across the board tariffs on everything. It’s unheard of because it’s so stupid. You’d have to be a complete moron to attempt it. That being said, in future years when we look back on this calamity, there will be just as much attention paid to those who blindly went along, or cheered this, as to Trump himself.

What would have to occur for you to say to yourself “damn, maybe this was a bad idea”?

But…but… @jbycho says this isn’t true and anyone who thinks like this is an idiot. Who am I to believe?

Whatever. This isn’t a game. When people lose their 401k savings that’s real money and real pain. If you think that’s a good thing there’s something wrong with you.

So you say. The market says otherwise. Jerome Powell predicts further inflation, most economists predict far worse. I think you’re wrong.

This. I don’t understand why anyone would celebrate bad times or bad things happening. The political results are never worth it (and they’re unpredictable anyhow.)

This is wrong. The market was uncertain for weeks, the resolution already came on Wednesday. Yesterday and today are a result of the market now being certain, not uncertain, about what is coming: economic bad times, most likely a recession, probably stagflation. We already have the answer.

Well I do think we’ll survive this. And I still hope for the best; I always do.

Most of the MAGA base did vote for this; it’s true. You guys wanted this to happen, for Trump to blow up the existing economic and political order. However you don’t represent a majority of those who voted for Trump. The majority of Trump voters, per exit polls, were non-MAGA, traditional Republicans, independents, and some Democrats; they voted for him to lower prices and stabilize the border. Either they ignored his promises about tariffs or simply didn’t take him seriously; this includes most of the business community.

China announces 34% tariff as retaliation: https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/business/money-report/china-to-impose-34-retaliatory-tariff-on-all-goods-imported-from-the-u-s/3670218/?amp=1 Here we go…

I think it will bounce back a little tomorrow. Trump made a statement that he was open to negotiation and this no doubt cheered some people up. A lot of business people continue to be convinced that in the end none of this will be permanent. Maybe they’re right. I hope they are.

1. Because we’re supposed to believe in capitalism. Other countries don’t. Historically that’s been to their loss and our gain. 2. Yes. And to correct you: if we carry out these tariffs as planned they will not be bad for us; they will be catastrophic for us.

Second guy to brag about this in the thread. Why are most MAGA people such a$$holes? Surely it’s not a coincidence…

I am at the National World War II Museum in NOLA today. 80 years of prosperity created by the sacrifice of these brave men and women of the Greatest Generation ended yesterday. Guess they didn’t realize they were suckers and losers after all.

Yes there’s a good chance you will shortly witness a world without globalism. See how much you enjoy it.

Your presence here is even more embarrassing (for you) than your absence.

Not going to happen. The best hope is that Trump sees the stock market, sees the reaction of the public, and in a few weeks or months makes some face saving trade deals and declares victory. I still think there’s a very good chance of this. Worst case scenario is we have to wait until the next election in which Congress goes heavily blue and takes back the tariffs power. But if we have to wait that long the damage is going to be huge.

The scale of this is so massive. We won’t know the consequences for months, possibly years to come. Smoot-Hawley led directly to the economic instability that caused all the dictatorships in Europe, including the Third Reich. We are creating a similar economic instability, and poverty, not just in Europe but…frigging everywhere. We take the stability of certain nations for granted: Japan, South Korea, Western Europe, etc. what happens to those countries when we create 15% unemployment or higher? And we haven’t even discussed Latin America. What do you guys think the result of higher unemployment down there will be? Gee I’ll let you guess….

Dow is down 1500 points. And as predicted, @Horseman who dismissed this possibility and mocked anyone who predicted it, is nowhere to be found.

Maybe but I really don’t think he is capable of such calculation.

The new argument is suddenly “short term pain for long term gain.” But most economists are clear: there is no long term gain here. Basically we’re looking at pain until we get rid of the tariffs: When we get rid of the tariffs we will be in a worse situation than when we started. How much worse depends on how long we wait to get rid of them. An accurate description is “short term pain for long term pain.”

Agreed. Trump has kept his word on the tariffs. I feared he would. It was my number one economic reason to not vote for him. But I still maintain that YOU misunderstand him. You continue to seem to believe that the tariffs are a means to an end (to get other nations to lower their tariffs against us.) That’s wrong; the tariffs are the end. Trump honestly believes they will return us to the manufacturing giant we were 100 years ago. He thinks he can revive it.

People who are truly financially well off don’t brag about it.