The Real timschochet

I remember and I get it. My problem with these sorts of stories (both this one and the Hillary email story is twofold): 1. I’m always skeptical that the person in question (Hillary Clinton or Pete Hegseth) is the actual person responsible for the screwup. In both cases I evaluate these people base on their policy performance, not on their technical skills. My hunch is that some low level staffer set this up and screwed it up. 2. Liberals will attack this and conservatives will defend this (in the Hillary story it was the other way around) and I HATE that. This has nothing to do with ideology*. (* Now the one possibility that it has something to do with ideology is that in general there is a contempt in the Trump administration for the “old rules”. I’ve already heard at least one MSNBC commentator express the sentiment that this was related to that contempt. But I’m skeptical. I think this was more of a fockup.)

Look this was a stupid mistake, but that’s all it apparently was: a stupid mistake. Now I personally think Hegseth is an incompetent fool but that’s based on my understanding of his decision- making, not on his inability to avoid screwing up who gets invited to a conference call. Much like the Hillary emails this is a process story and not especially interesting, IMO.

The Crusades were a savage affair on all sides. Christians slaughtered Muslims and Jews alike and were slaughtered right back, it didn’t save Christianity from Islam- that happened hundreds of years later, at the gates of Vienna, and at the Siege of Malta. In any event it wasn’t a good Christianity that was saved, it was a savage Christianity of the Inquisition. It wasn’t until the Protestant Reformation and Enlightenment that the modern day “good” Christianity appears. And it wasn’t an evil Islam that was defeated. Islam in those days was the height of civilization and knowledge- it wasn’t until the Mongols nearly destroyed the Middle East that the modern day backwards Islam developed.

So much wrong here. Not sure where to start but I’ll try: 1. I don’t need to ask myself why; I already know. Individual Muslims come to the USA (and Western countries in general) for two reasons: economic opportunities and to ESCAPE the social conservatism you’re referring to. 2. Muslims are generally more conservative on gay issues than westerners are. However I personally know some gay Muslims who live here for that exact reason. 3. Muslims don’t vote in a bloc. Nor do they think in a bloc. I know many Muslims who are quite liberal, and some, like one of my business partners, who loves Trump. 4. We’re not losing. The more Muslims that come here (and the more immigrants in general) we win because our ideas are spreading around the world. The only way we can lose is by shutting our doors the way the nativists want.

Sorry that I miss out on your high regard, lol

Nah I already knew. I gotta work.

I don’t care. Make it zero then we’ll talk

Muslims represent 1.62% of the population of Ireland. Oh the horror. Overrun!

Imagine thinking the Crusades was a good thing.

I never claimed it was. I was writing about things that I stand for. Her poem is one of those things. I happen to believe that it represents the best of Americanism. But that’s me.

You’re repeating news from questionable sources which has mostly been proven false. You’re fearmongering, and you’re repeating this trash because you want to believe it. https://berkleycenter.georgetown.edu/posts/refugees-and-islamophobia-in-western-europe-the-boomerang-effect

Most of them yes. A few of them no, and if those cause trouble they will have to be dealt with. But I am firmly convinced that most Muslims living in France, Germany and England both enjoy and contribute to the western way of life and personal freedoms that dominate those countries.

Not to me. In any event do you really think that if the general public has been opposed to the poem it would have been placed on the statue anyhow? That’s absurd.

This is part is true. I disagree with the rest of what you wrote. Here is my argument, which is a rejection of nearly everything that has been written in this thread: I believe that the vast majority of Muslims who come to live in this country have also chosen Enlightenment, rejecting those tenets of Islam that are incompatible with it. Furthermore as part of OUR acceptance of our own ideals. We must treat them as individuals and not as a group who is a collective threat. Therefore we should welcome them in without regard to their religion.

Some of them were selected. But I still don’t understand your point. What difference does it make to the ideals behind the documents that Emma Lazarus was never elected?

My point is that if you’re going to argue that the American concept of freedom is incompatible with Islam then you have to also acknowledge that it’s incompatible with Christianity, Both are true. The ultimate “Christian society” is the one designed by Jean Calvin in Geneva, which bore a close resemblance to modern day Iran. It was a dictatorship.

Yes technically by the Virginia House of Burgess (a small group, not “the people”) but he was chosen by John Adams to write the Declaration. Not sure what if any point you are making here.

Once again you’re completely wrong. https://www.theobjectivestandard.com/p/the-new-testament-versus-the-american-revolution There are huge conflicts between the New Teatament and the Declaration of Independence and all aspects of the Enlightenment:

Dave Davies is responsible for some of the greatest guitar riffs in rock history: this song, “You Really Got Me”, a few others.

Really? Prove it. Provide one link to back up that claim.

Wait/ what “people” elected Thomas Jefferson to write the Declaration of Independence?

You’re correct that the ideas I listed are incompatible with the Qu’run and many of the main tenets of the Muslim religion. The problem is they are also incompatible with the Bible and many of the main tenets of the Jewish and Christian religions. Individual members of each of these religions simply choose to ignore the parts of their religion which conflict with the ideas of this country,

One of the original rides, personally designed by Walt Disney, which must bother the hell out of @Cdub100 and all the other bigots around here and everywhere. It’s a tribute to globalism, woke, and diversity.

Are you saying that UCLA doesn’t matter to you as a Big-10 school? I’m schocked.

And Thomas Jefferson wrote the Declaration specifically for white men. I don’t care. The words apply to all of us, everyone.