The Real timschochet

Lolol. But I already knew this. Go back to the kids table, mmkay? The grownups are talking serious stuff here.

Here is the University of Virginia weighing in: https://news.darden.virginia.edu/2025/02/04/qa-what-are-tariffs-and-how-will-they-affect-us/ 1. Weakened economic growth 2. Eliminated jobs 3. Increased consumer costs 4. Large negative impact to agriculture, automotive industry, and energy sectors. 5. Major disruption of supply chains and global trade. But hey what could go wrong?

I sure hope so. Can you explain in your own words how and why I am wrong?

I’m just telling you that most economists disagree that the negative results will be minor.

Except that both Canada and Mexico asked the Trump administration very specifically what new steps we are demanding in terms of limiting fentanyl and they were given no answer. There appears to be no reason given for these new tariffs, no demands made and no discussion of how they will end. We had a trade deal with these two neighbors that Trump himself negotiated and called the greatest deal ever. Now he’s canceled it. Why?

Sure. But I think the tariffs are a much bigger catalyst don’t you?

So basically you’re arguing, based on that study, that the effects will be at most a 1.2% increase- effectively minimal. I don’t believe it. I’ve read several economists argue that this will be a significant tax on consumers. Here is Warren Buffett: https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/warren-buffett-says-tariffs-economic-act-war-tooth-fairy-doesnt-pay-em.amp Your study also doesn’t take into account the effects on our economy of the retaliatory tariffs which both Canada and Mexico have pledged to enact immediately after tomorrow. You’re not educating me. I’ve read such analysis before. The overwhelming number of economists have a much more dire view of this. But you know what? I hope you’re right.

Apparently the answer to my question is ….yes. Hope you guys are happy. Total insanity IMO.

I heard the former ambassador to Russia on MSNBC just now. He made what I thought were several good points. I’m going to list them here by memory and I invite you guys to comment (especially those who believe that Trump is doing a good job here.): 1. There are only two ways to end a war: one side wins or a stalemate forces the two sides to reach a peace agreement. President Trump, by threatening to stop all aid to Ukraine, is not promoting the stalemate, he is actively helping Russia to win. 2. Prior to negotiating for a peace agreement, Trump openly and publicly made the following concessions to Russia: no NATO membership for Ukraine, no American boots on the ground, no returning to the borders prior to the invasion (Ukraine has to give up some of its land) a return to the G7 for Russia. These were all demands Putin has made that could have been negotiated with Russia in exchange for an end to the fighting and guarantees on Russia’s part. Instead they were made without getting anything back from Russia in return. This suggests to the Ambassador that Trump is not serious about these negotiations other than forcing Ukraine to agree to whatever Putin demands. 3. In the last couple of days the Russian media has issued new demands: limiting the Ukraine army to 100,000 men, having its foreign policy and trade policies subject to Russian veto, and the resignation of Zelensky as President. Readers of history will recognize the similarity between these sorts of demands and the ones Hitler made on small countries before destroying them. 4. Meanwhile Trump has told his people that the only way he will even consider working with Zelensky again is if (a) Zelensky expresses gratitude- not to America by to Trump- (b) signs the minerals and (c) publicly apologizes to Trump on camera before the entire world.

The Republican narrative has been set and I’ve heard it all yesterday and this morning: This is all Zelensky’s fault. He FAFO. Trump and Vance are blameless, only looking after America’s best interests and looking for peace. Zelensky is looking to prolong the war to stay in power, we need to cut him off or he needs to resign. Or he needs to apologize, grovel, and agree to whatever Trump proposes. if a small number of conservatives don’t believe this garbage at the moment,, they almost all will by the end of the week. This alternative reality is what the rest of us is dealing with.

Joy Reid isn’t comparable to this garbage. And you know it.

I’m not going to argue this point with ten year olds.

This thread is a wonderful example of the main problem with modern day conservatives. It is led by the two biggest Jew haters on this board, unabashedly repeating their conspiracy theories. I am 100% confident that most of the conservatives reading this are not anti-Semitic, nor are you racists, nor are you bigots. But you tolerate it. You don’t condemn this stuff. @Frozenbeernuts and @Cdub100 are on your team so you let it go. You find excuses for them or you simply ignore their screeds on this subject. You engage them on other subjects as if they’re normal and not beyond the pale. And this is symptomatic of conservatives in the Trump era: you have allowed these crazies in your midst and you accept them, you don’t seem to mind. You accuse liberals of being extreme. But we’re not extreme like this.

It was in private, behind closed doors. This was a public embarrassment. Huge difference.

Honeymoon is already over.

If you’re going to be proper anti-Semite you really need to spell Israel right. It’s “a” before “e”.

OK this will be a different thread for me because I have been very negative about Donald Trump on most issues. This will, at least for now, not be one of them. And I hope for good things for the future. First off kudos to President Trump for the release of Mark Vogel. By all accounts Trump was the main guy here and deserves the credit. So good job! Next the Trump folks say this is the start of better relations between the USA and Russia. I would welcome that. I would like to see Trump bring about a peaceful end to the Ukraine war which does not weaken Ukraine’s sovereignty. Perhaps giving up Crimea permanently in exchange for allowing Ukraine to join NATO and the USA contributing to rebuilding the damage? I don’t know, I’m just spitballing. But I think that President Trump has the unique opportunity to get something done. If Trump’s solution is for Ukraine to surrender, if he continues to demand Ukraine gives up its natural resources to us in exchange for further aid, if he turns a blind eye on Putin’s crimes, then I go back to criticizing Trump on this issue. But for now I am optimistic and hopeful. Let’s go!

@jbycho your deal is sadly rejected. But I will offer you a new deal in its place: you start making thoughtful posts (on any subject, doesn’t matter) without personal insults, without trying to “own the libs” and in return I will begin to respect you. How’s that?

Thats not correct. Zelensky wasn’t asking if Russia would honor the minerals deal; why would he? He was asking if Russia would honor a ceasefire which is a separate issue, and he correctly pointed out that Russia hasn’t honored ceasefires in the past. Zelensky was ready to sign the minerals deal (and still is). But he will NOT agree to a ceasefire without some assurance of security. I think that makes sense, don’t you?

Oh I agree he will come back. Better for him and better for us. But you also said that Europe has nothing to offer. That’s not correct. This has now become an issue for face saving on all sides. Trump needs to be able to come away as the winner and peacemaker. Zelensky can’t appear to grovel. The Europeans can’t appear to look weak. And even Putin, though he is a dictator, has to be able to show his people that there was some positive result from losing 700,000 men and billions of dollars. If we can find a way to achieve all of the goals we will have peace.

Besides, despite all of Trump’s bluster we haven’t cut off aid to Ukraine yet.

This is wrong. Europe can’t replace what we can offer, and they can’t cause Ukraine to win the struggle, but they can offer enough arms to maintain the current stalemate for years if need be. And it appears they’re going to.

We fundamentally disagree. I respect your position and the way you eloquently stated it much more than I do some of the other people here. But I still believe you’re wrong in just about every way.

Well you do obviously.

You mean the Smedley Butler who, despite his great service to this country, ended his life in support of fascism and an admirer of Adolf Hitler? That Smedley Butler? Sure OK