The Real timschochet

There are millions of undocumented immigrants. They’re not going away. They’re not going to be deported. They drive. Our choices are we give them licenses or they drive illegally. If they drive illegally they are bound to cause more problems than if they have licenses. To me this is just practical common sense.

To be honest most of my friends are conservatives (I live in Orange County) so I know you’re right (not about what you call “bullsh!t” but about the numbers. And frankly it would be nice to see conservatives win some elections here. Not because I agree with most of your ideas, but because if we were a purple state I think we would matter more.

And incidentally it’s a damn good idea to give drivers licenses to undocumented people.

I dunno. I’m a liberal born and bred here, plenty of people like me.

I believe most of the nation will agree with you in a few months

I’m frankly surprised there’s been no discussion of this. Jordan is likely to become Speaker tomorrow, and for MAGA types and modern day conservatives (which form the bulk of those posting here) this is in many ways nearly as big a victory as Donald Trump winning the Presidency in 2016, if not more so. If there was a civil war in the GOP, Jordan’s victory will mean it’s over. The establishment types have lost. The party has been fully transformed into the Freedom Caucus/Trump vision: nativist, nationalist, anti-woke, and no compromise with Democrats whatsoever. Since that is what most of you guys want, you should be pretty happy about it. If Jordan sticks to his pledges it will mean aid to Ukraine cut off, Joe Biden impeached, and an impending government shutdown unless spending on things Democrats love is severely curtailed. And that’s for starters. Of course we will have to see if any of this actually happens.

Actually Der Fuehrer was defeated in a couple of elections prior to being appointed Chancellor,

Hyperventilating? I found the whole thing amusing.

Well now it’s done: Trump has everything he wants: control of House, control of Senate, Presidency, a conservative Supreme Court. Time to govern; let’s see how it comes out.

And now the Republicans are congratulating each other on this mess. Hilarious. Unity!!

Looks like Self and Norman will change their vote and Johnson will get in. Just my guess but that’s what it looks like. Wonder what Johnson promised them?

Well if it’s fake it’s conservatives who raised it.

They suspended voting on the first ballot trying to get the two holdouts to change their mind. My bet is that will happen and Johnson will be the next Speaker shortly. But who knows? What a clown show.

I absolutely believe in moral absolutes and in good and evil. But I don’t think it applies in the way that you have chosen to apply it. I also reject your example of Muslim immigrants in European countries. For the most part they have worked out fine. There are always some problems and some radicals but they don’t represent the majority. I would counter your examples with the example of the Turkish community in Berlin, of which I have become personally familiar. Because of some business and personal relationships I have become very familiar with Muslim communities in Southern California: not just individuals but whole groups of people. And I can tell you flatly that your assumptions are just wrong. But if you doubt this, then I invite you to visit a mosque in your own community. Go on a Friday afternoon before prayer. Ask to speak to the Imam and ask any questions you’d like. I guarantee you will be welcomed. If you truly wish to be informed on this subject that is.

You need to channel your inner Matt Saracen.

Who is apologizing? All I am saying is don’t hold innocent people responsible along with the guilty. To be Muslim is not in itself a crime.

We agree on radical Muslims. Your second statement is a simple falsehood: almost 100% of when we apprehend Muslim terrorists it’s the result of informants within the Muslim community. It’s not “too bad” when non-radical Muslims get lumped in; it’s wrong. For heaven’s sake just stop it. Show some decency.

Fair point. But you’ll remember that on a rather famous occasion the ACLU actually DID defend Neo-Nazis; their right to free speech anyhow. In the case of American Muslims I think they need to be defended against stereotyping and dislike or hatred against them as a group which only grows when there are insane terrorists attacks like this one. I don’t like it when you and others collectivize them, as you did when you wrote that they’re all good with “killing the infidel.” I find such rhetoric false, ignorant, bigoted and hateful, and dangerous to our society. I want to fight against it.

Liberals tend to defend the rights of the minority, or the individual, against the crowd. Because it’s always the minority or individual that is at greatest risk in a society that acts collectively. But in this regard liberals are not leftists because leftism is synonymous with collectivism.

It’s not debatable because it’s not true.

You’re wrong. I’m not debating.

Yeah? What’s your point?

President Biden and the members of his administration.

Nowhere. But that’s not what I wrote. I wrote that it could be interpreted to justify genocide. Personally I would consider that a wrong interpretation. Leviticus, however, is much more direct: there God absolutely orders murder. My larger point is that these are old texts and that only fanatics interpret them in a fanatical way. There are plenty of fanatics in the Muslim religion- more than all the other world’s religions combined. But even so they do not represent the majority of Muslims around the world and certainly not in this country. That’s where I disagree with many of the folks around here.

Not so much in New Testament, I’ll give you that. But Christianity also includes the Old Testament, and there I can refer you to Leviticus. But even in the New Testament, there’s Luke 17 27 29, in which God appears to celebrate the murder of everyone in Sodom- which can and has been interpreted as a justificatory for genocide.