The Real timschochet

The list I just posted is only of the items most affected and it is VERY incomplete. If we consider that the likeliest result of these tariffs is that the 3 countries affected will retaliate with new tariffs in kind then we can expect all sorts of unforeseen consequences, along with increased unemployment, etc. Keep in mind that though we have had tariffs before, both during Trump and Biden, we have NEVER had anything close to 25% tariffs on our two largest trading partners. It will be the largest tariffs in our history, bigger than Smoot-Hawley. I believe that if it lasts it will bring our currently booming economy to a grinding halt.

Only 10%. 90% of the avocados Americans consume come from Mexico.

Here is a list of the items that will go way up: Sneakers Furniture Toys Automobiles Beer Avocados Coats French Fries https://www.cnbc.com/2025/01/20/trump-tariff-news-products-and-companies-most-at-risk.html

Blackstone’s ratio: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackstone's_ratio#:~:text=Historic expressions of the principle,-The immediate precursors&text=Some 300 years before Fortescue,single innocent one to death." Better that ten guilty men are acquitted than one innocent man go to prison. However in this case the ratio is the opposite and more, because the vast majority of those being apprehended are not violent criminals. Which is why I have always supported Sanctuary Cities.

I’m good with mine.

Yes. One of the very many reasons I didn’t vote for him. Do you think this is a good idea?

We are living in a time of bigotry and ugliness. We’ll get through it.

Thanks for the advice. I’m trying to be a decent human being. That’s why I’m opposed to informing on other people. Today Trump’s new Justice Department announced that it is seeking ways to prosecute officials from “Sanctuary Cities” who won’t cooperate with their deportation plans. I hope the officials resist. That is decency in my book.

Also you’ve repeated this line before and I keep trying to tell you it’s ignorant of history. Almost the first thing the Communists did in every country they took power in during the last century was take the Democratic socialists, line then up against a wall, and shoot them. They’re not friends.

What does any of this have to do with my views on immigration, which are rooted in capitalism and libertarianism and the free market?

Well the Germans must have thought so.

Go ahead. Only scum would actually turn people in. Sounds like you would though.

You keep moving the goalposts. The public wants strong action taken in regards to undocumented immigration, you’re right about that. But they don’t want to end birthright citizenship. You’re wrong about that. The University of Chicago is hardly a left wing university, you just made that part up. And AP is about as middle of the road as they come. Earlier you asserted that Americans overwhelmingly support removing birthright citizenship. That was wrong and stupid on your part to make such an assertion. Back it up if you can, or withdraw it, or continue to look like an idiot. Your choice.

Look you’re right that my opinion about the topic isn’t authoritative, it’s my opinion. But what I wrote about the history IS authoritative. I linked the source for you. I didn’t make it up.

It’s never OK

I am. I would prefer if there were no tariffs whatsoever but we can’t fight that by adding tariffs of our own. Doesn’t work; never has. History has been quite decisive on this point.

The assumption that if people vote for a candidate they agree with everything the candidate is for is pretty damn stupid even for you.

Look as I already wrote, your first paragraph is wrong. The amendment was primarily a response to slavery and Dred Scott, but immigration was discussed at the time. And this was confirmed by the Supreme Court shortly thereafter: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Wong_Kim_Ark As an aside in your last paragraph you wrote “I am hopeful we can find a result that benefits Americans, not illegal immigrants.” We already have that result. Birthright citizenship is a benefit to all here. Also, despite their lack of papers, IMO undocumented immigrants are every bit as American as anyone else, perhaps more so, as many of them risked their lives and freedoms coming here. How many of us can say that?!

Unlike @TrailGuy I’m in favor of this investment. I think it’s a good thing and I applaud Trump for doing it. But it has nothing to do with the tariffs which are the subject of this thread. I think the tariffs are idiotic and will be disastrous.

51% of Americans oppose changing birthright citizenship: https://amp.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/national/article298897150.html

Hegseth will be confirmed. Republicans in the Senate don’t have the guts to stand up to Trump at this point, really on any issue. If this was a private vote Hegseth would lose in a landslide. But it isn’t so he will go through.

Well I think you’re wrong. Trump is against NATO. He is an isolationist. And my views on this aren’t far left, they’re mainstream establishment (or used to be anyhow.)

This is wrong. The outcome of children of immigrants becoming citizens was NOT unexpected. It was actually debated prior to the passage of the 14th Amendment and determined to be a desirable outcome. This included children born here of people who came here without papers across our borders- at that time the borders were pretty much wide open. Most legal scholars, both conservative and liberal, believe the Supreme Court will slap down Trump on this. It may even be a unanimous decision. Birthright citizenship is here to stay unless you change the Constitution.

Well the tariffs alone will certainly transform us….

You and others keep making this claim. But the problem is that he has made no demands to China and his demands against Mexico and Canada are extremely vague, not specific at all. Furthermore he keeps saying, and seems to sincerely believe, that tariffs are not a means to an end but the end itself. Don’t get me wrong I hope you are correct about this. But we’ll see.