The Real timschochet

Who is apologizing? All I am saying is don’t hold innocent people responsible along with the guilty. To be Muslim is not in itself a crime.

We agree on radical Muslims. Your second statement is a simple falsehood: almost 100% of when we apprehend Muslim terrorists it’s the result of informants within the Muslim community. It’s not “too bad” when non-radical Muslims get lumped in; it’s wrong. For heaven’s sake just stop it. Show some decency.

Fair point. But you’ll remember that on a rather famous occasion the ACLU actually DID defend Neo-Nazis; their right to free speech anyhow. In the case of American Muslims I think they need to be defended against stereotyping and dislike or hatred against them as a group which only grows when there are insane terrorists attacks like this one. I don’t like it when you and others collectivize them, as you did when you wrote that they’re all good with “killing the infidel.” I find such rhetoric false, ignorant, bigoted and hateful, and dangerous to our society. I want to fight against it.

Liberals tend to defend the rights of the minority, or the individual, against the crowd. Because it’s always the minority or individual that is at greatest risk in a society that acts collectively. But in this regard liberals are not leftists because leftism is synonymous with collectivism.

It’s not debatable because it’s not true.

You’re wrong. I’m not debating.

Yeah? What’s your point?

President Biden and the members of his administration.

Nowhere. But that’s not what I wrote. I wrote that it could be interpreted to justify genocide. Personally I would consider that a wrong interpretation. Leviticus, however, is much more direct: there God absolutely orders murder. My larger point is that these are old texts and that only fanatics interpret them in a fanatical way. There are plenty of fanatics in the Muslim religion- more than all the other world’s religions combined. But even so they do not represent the majority of Muslims around the world and certainly not in this country. That’s where I disagree with many of the folks around here.

Not so much in New Testament, I’ll give you that. But Christianity also includes the Old Testament, and there I can refer you to Leviticus. But even in the New Testament, there’s Luke 17 27 29, in which God appears to celebrate the murder of everyone in Sodom- which can and has been interpreted as a justificatory for genocide.

I am not defending anything. I think accuracy is important. Both Christianity and Judaism have words in their holy books which, if taken out of context, are every bit as awful as the Qu’run. But people are using the Qu’run to condemn a whole religion and I don’t think that’s right. You brought up what my people have been through. More than anything it has taught us to stand up against stereotypes and bigotry and that’s what I think I’m doing. I’ve been to mosques on Friday nights; I’ve joined Muslims at get togethers with their families. They’re regular people like everyone else. Most of them are absolutely horrified by what happened in New Orleans but they also fear the hatred against them that such acts inevitably lead to. I think they’re right to fear.

And now they say they think he was solely responsible. And in truth that makes more sense.

Yes others would see it. But think what you like.

I don’t pat myself on the back. I wish everyone could think logically about this. Unfortunately this thread demonstrates that they can’t.

Since you seem to be ignorant of how certain things work allow me to educate you. All of my checks, including personal checks, come out of my business address. I could explain to you why this is so but I wouldn’t expect you to understand.

More lies: https://www.alislam.org/question/quran-infidels-killed/ Please educate yourself as you’re deliberately taking the Qu’run out of context in order to spread fear, bigotry and hatred.

No.

This is a simple opinion (from a simple person, but I digress.) The author of this opinion is collectively damning about a billion people world wide, putting them all in the same box, holding them all responsible for the acts of the absolute worst among them. Horseman’s statement here is, by definition, bigoted. I would say it’s also an evil statement as well, the sort of argument used in recent history justify discrimination, murder, ethnic cleaning and genocide. I hope most reasonable people with be filled with revulsion if they read it, but I don’t know that for sure. At the present time a lot of generally good people are mixed up and listening to their worse demons rather than their better angels.

Well we certainly shouldn’t make assumptions within the first few hours as so many folks did here. What I wrote is based on what is currently being reported. If the facts change as they certainly could then I will change with them. But the scapegoating of an entire religion or group of people will NEVER be acceptable no matter what the facts are or turn out to be. That’s why Trump, and those who agree with him on this issue, are behaving so reprehensibly.

I think you’re the one that needs to see the shrink since you constantly make up sh!t about me, and others. If I write that I honestly forgot something it’s because I forgot.

Posted at the same time as mine. Very well. I am very sorry about your brother. Best wishes.

@Engorgeous George I found your brothers address. I will mail you the check tomorrow but only if I have your word that you will cash it. Otherwise I won’t bother.

Yeah but that was before Biden actually quit. We made a bet fair and square. I owe you the money, allow me to pay you.

First off I had honestly forgotten that you sent me your brothers address. I apologize for that. Second I don’t own my business; it’s a family business; I run it but there are other family members involved. Any check I write of this amount would have to be explained and it would frankly been embarrassing to me. Thats why I wanted to Venmo you. Third, the reason for the “drama” was that at the time I didn’t really feel I had lost the bet. I’m not going to rehash all that now because it was made irrelevant when Biden actually quit. Finally, I believe I owe you the money. Let me check the messages to see if the address is still there and if so I will mail you the check tomorrow.

Back to the topic: Even though this appears to be the act of a “lone wolf” it is still an act of terrorism by definition: a violent act designed to create terror with a political motive. It checks all the boxes for that. Even so there ought to be a distinction between this sort of act of terror by a single radicalized individual and the sort planned and executed by an organization (such as 9/11 planned by al-Qaeda. Although this guy appeared to sympathize with ISIS it’s likely he didn’t coordinate his plans with them but acted alone. Why is it important to make this distinction? Well for one thing it helps to prevent bigots like Trump (or @Hardcore troubadour and others in this thread) from blaming an entire religion or large group of people for the mad acts of a single individual.)