The Real timschochet

I think you guys are out to lunch on this one. There will not be any jury nullification. This dude is going to be convicted of first degree murder and will be sent to prison for life.

Hey White power dude the grownups are talking here.

But see when sh!t like this goes down it’s never the stupid stuff that suffers. It’s always the folks who really need their checks that don’t get them, like retired pensioners, VA, etc. The stupid stuff goes right on being stupid. And as I wrote earlier, this will end in a complete surrender by Trump and the Republicans. It may take a day or two, or it may go on for a few months. But in the end all the useless government you hate will be restored and any losses will be reimbursed with interest just like last time. You do realize this right?

I didn’t lose. The country lost.

They definitely take a gleefulness in the idea of blowing things up. For many conservatives that is a big part of Trump’s appeal.

The other interesting thing is that Mike Johnson has apparently spent the last two weeks consulting closely with Trump while the negotiations for this bill was going on. Trump’s team, including Musk, knew about all aspects of this bill and could have vetoed any aspect during the negotiations. So why kill it at the last second? Remember that Trump killed a spending bill in the last second during his first term, causing a government shutdown for 60 days; he then abruptly surrendered to the Democrats without gaining anything he demanded. This situation will likely end the same way. In short: this is less about Trump’s principles regarding wasteful spending (he doesn’t have any) and more about his utter incompetence in his role as leader of the GOP, which hasn’t improved over time.

Isn’t that the plot of Wicked?

What’s interesting to me is that Trump has no apparent objection to any aspect of the bill. Per his Truth Social post he just wants to add increasing the debt ceiling limit (which expires next summer.)

Yeah well sorry but you should know that Holocaust denial doesn’t really turn a lot of girls on.

In the link you posted, Powell is quoted as saying people are feeling the effects of high prices rather than high inflation. My serious question: what’s the difference?

It makes me drink

Bad move. If we had sent him to the Vikings, even now, they would have given us 3-4 draft picks.

You tend to be pretty patronizing in your responses. I’ve been accused of that as well so I am mindful of it, both for myself and others. I am very well aware of the history that you mentioned. I have quite a different interpretation of it than you do. Rather than go into detail on our differences, let me make a few points and then I’m done: 1. There has always been what you call “illegal immigration” to this country. It has never, in our entire history, been fully controlled. The level of it has been almost wholly a result of outside factors and not our own actions and that will likely continue to be the case no matter what we do. 2. If we ever have a time where there is no or extremely little undocumented immigration, that will very likely mean we are suffering from some grave economic calamity here. I hope not to see it. Typically the larger number of undocumented immigrants, the more prosperous our society is. 3. In your most recent post you compared us to a lifeboat. That is not and has never been a valid analogy for the United States. We have never not had enough room to absorb everyone who comes here both with legal papers and without. In fact it’s not even a close question. I am leaving for Europe so if I you have a response or question I won’t be able to reply for a few weeks. I do enjoy our conversations/ debates on these issues. Wishing you and your family happy holidays.

Yep

Well now we get to the real level of disagreement. I don’t want them to try another country. I want this country to be the refuge. That is, IMO, our whole purpose for being a country in the first place. It’s who we are.

Well the problem with that is what you’re being sent back to. If what you’re currently living in is hell on Earth you’re probably going to risk it anyhow.

We are capable of protecting our borders. We’re capable of stopping nearly every undocumented immigrant from coming here if we really want to. We don’t. The price is too high. Everything Trump and the Republicans are doing is for show. The American public thinks they want to do something about this. Truth is they don’t. They want to be told something has been done.

I don’t because there literally isn’t any. These folks are already willing to risk their lives, the lives of their families and children, risk separation, imprisonment, torture, death, starvation, all for the slim possibility of being in America- and you think that cutting off welfare benefits is going to deter them?

They’re two of the main drivers. There are others. And there are ways we can spend money to try to deal with these issues or at least counter them. The solution isn’t to throw up our hands and stop spending.

They would live anywhere if it meant living here.

To quote Peter Parker: with great power comes great responsibility. We are the leader of the free world. We have been since World War II. We derive a lot of benefits from that position and I don’t think we should surrender it lightly. But yes it gives us certain duties.

I don’t think you understand at all the motivation for people wanting to come here.

I so rarely agree with @Hardcore troubadour but I find myself doing it twice now in the space of a few days. He is correct here- the key to black inequality in education needs to be solved at the primary levels. By the time college comes around it’s already too late. Now, the irony of Hardcore’s argument is that he regularly supports conservative politicians who don’t want to spend a dime trying to help the inner cities address these problems. Democrats haven’t exactly done a great job either but at least they’re willing to focus on it.

Not really in love with this decision. If he did something illegal prosecute him. But this seems vindictive, designed simply to embarrass the dude. I have no love for Gaetz, I think he’s a real jerk. But he’s out of Congress and not going to be AG so this seems unnecessary.

I don’t believe that affirmative action/DEI is racism. I also don’t believe that opposing affirmative action/DEI is racism. Both are legitimate points of view.