The Real timschochet

Joe Biden.

I get that your attitude is genuine and millions of people share it. But it’s not helping you. NAFTA was cynically replaced with a trade deal with Mexico that was virtually identical. Stopping the Trans Pacific Partnership really hurt our economy. This anti-trade stuff is a feel good for Americans who bemoan the loss of traditional manufacturing. But that’s an inevitable thing, there’s no way to stop it. The trade deals, and free trade in general, bring us far more prosperity than we lose. So does open immigration. Hopefully the majority of Americans will someday perceive this before we suffer too much.

Right. How others, not conservatives, see it,, including me. Sorry if you misunderstood. I doubt any conservatives see it the way I do.

When I wrote “this is how many conservatives perceive it” I was referring to what @Hardcore troubadour wrote, not my opinion which I added afterward.

Exactly. Though I will add that as much as I always admired John McCain for making that correction, I wish he had added that even if Obama had been an Arab or a Muslim, there would have been nothing wrong with that, and that would not have made him less decent.

This is certainly the way many conservatives perceive it, ignoring the fact that Trump’s first political move upon Obama being elected was to question Obama’s birth legitimacy: a racist attack. Here’s how others see it, including me: white conservatives were freaked out by the fact of Obama’s election, not by anything Obama did (Obama governed as a centrist.) They were freaked out because they fear that very shortly for the first time in American history, white people will no longer be a majority. This is the same fear that is the root of the transformation of the GOP to anti-immigration, isolationism, nativism, anti-trade, anti-globalism, etc. It was the fear of a black and brown majority that brought about Donald Trump.

Not really. I would like to see Biden step aside but if he doesn’t I’ll continue to support him.

No of course not. The only reason I want him to leave is because I’m concerned about his chances to win. I’m personally not concerned about how he will continue to perform as President.

This can go on until the Convention starts.

I don’t understand your question. Why would polls affect who I support?

I wasn’t insulting you. I was just stating a fact. It doesn’t have to be a permanent fact. Offer some opinion for once. A fresh thought. You’ll notice I disagree with @Mark Davis and @Voltaire and many others around here but I never call them stupid. Because they’re not. They engage in thoughtful discussion. They don’t spend 100% of their posts attacking other people. Who knows? Maybe behind the stupid posts and constant personal attacks there is a sharp incisive mind. I would have no way of knowing.

I admit it is difficult for me to judge intelligence when you present yourself to me on the scale. So long as I am forced to assess you first as the result of your posts, grading on a curve makes Biden and everyone else seem genius.

It’s not the same thing. They say, correctly, that Trump belongs in jail because Trump has committed specific crimes that deserve jail time. Trump says his opponents belong in jail for no reason other than they oppose him. Surely you see the difference? And no this is not normal for an American politician. Even Nixon never went this far. Trump is uniquely awful.

I think he’s competent now. He just has more trouble than ever expressing it. But I have no doubt that he’s of sound mind and his effectiveness as President has been extraordinary.

It’s a long article. Keep reading you’ll get there.

So now we get to phase 2, as we always do with Trump supporters: “he just says stuff he doesn’t mean it.” This is after you argued that he never said it. I hope you’re right. But what I really hope is that we never have to find out.

You’ve reached caricature status at this point.

Better. Those nations have and will benefit greatly from increased immigration. Nations that view immigration as a problem always suffer.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/9/13/17823488/hungary-democracy-authoritarianism-trump A good summary.

I certainly hope the electorate is as “wrong” as I am. Sadly all too many of them share your views on the MSM and this poisons their ability to think clearly on these issues.

We just seem to live on two different planets. The NY trial wasn’t bogus; none of the indictments are. Joe Biden has had nothing to do with the Trump’s legal troubles; he has these troubles because he is a corrupt person who has broken the law many times. But ever if you were right about Biden, which you’re not, aren’t you just moving the goalposts? You claimed you’ve never heard examples of Trump’s threat to our democracy. I gave you several and now your argument is that Biden does it too? Why not just admit you were wrong in the first place?

Yeah we certainly don’t see eye to eye on this. I regard Biden’s trade policies as easily the worst aspect of his Presidency. Free trade is the key to American prosperity. The last time we were this hostile to it in both parties it led to the Great Depression. This time it may be worse.

We actually have one of those now. If these are truly the things you care about why would you ever choose Donald Trump?

I think you need to attend a good Passover dinner. Have some Matzoh ball soup, some brisket, you’ll feel better about the Jews. But I’m not inviting you to mine.

Are you really suggesting that because Orban is popular with Hungarians that makes his dictatorship OK? And what the fock does any of this have to do with Joy Reid? I rarely watch her. There are some shows on MSNBC I watch regularly; hers is not one of them.