The Real timschochet

You’ve made this point several times so I have a question for you: if we were to eliminate all government programs that immigrants could have any access to, would you then be OK with free and open immigration to this country from anywhere?

There is a struggle within the Palestinian community that has been going on since the birth of Israel and even before. Essentially it is between those who believe they can eventually live side by side with Israel and those who want nothing less than the utter destruction of Israel. The latter group, fanatical in word and deed, has always appeared to the world as dominant. Many like @jerryskids would have us believe that they are the ONLY Palestinians, that the first group I mentioned don’t really exist, a myth. This is convenient because if your enemy is truly evil, murderous, extreme, it justifies all actions on your side to deal with them. Thus, everything the current Israeli government does is OK, no matter how awful-why not? The Palestinians are all evil bastards committed to their destruction. (it’s an argument that is also dehumanizing, allowing one to be less empathetic when children suffer or die.) We have seen that in this thread. But it’s a false narrative. The first group of Palestinians, those who want to co-exist with Israel, have always been there, and always been significant, they have never been dominant for a number of reasons which would take too long to get into here. But the key to Israel’s ultimate survival and security is for this side to eventually win out. No country can survive in which the majority of the population is hostile to the ruling minority. Unless we achieve a 2 state solution, Israel as a nation is ultimately doomed. Thus, for Israel’s survival, the reasonable, moderate Palestinian minority has to become a majority. Forgive my lengthy digression here but I can’t address your question without it. By moving the embassy we strengthened the radical Palestinian majority and weakened the moderate Palestinian minority. Thats the gist of it. It was a huge move in the wrong direction. You’re correct that it didn’t create Hamas but it strengthened them. Hamas, like any political movement, becomes more powerful the more the population subscribes to their ideas. This is the same reason they cannot be destroyed by Israel’s current military actions, any more than we were able to destroy the Taliban. M You can wipe out their military strength, but like a hydra they will always come back because the population is behind them.

Their lives will be better off under Biden. This has already been true. Deep down they’ll probably be secretly relieved when he wins again.

Thanks but it’s not really a master class. Any dummy can learn this stuff by reading just a little of the history. But a lot of these guys seem incapable of even the basics.

Serious question: do you have to work at sounding like a moron or does it just come easy to you?

Not that it has anything to do with this thread but you were wrong anyhow. Biden is tied in those polls and gaining now. Very shortly he will be ahead, probably for the remainder. Maybe you should focus on your statements in this thread, such as your ridiculous assertion that none of this would have happened under Trump. You’re so backwards on this stuff.

No it isn’t the same. Huge difference and I already touched on this. The Camp David accords were a huge deal because Egypt had been in 3 major wars with Israel and it was the first time any Arab country was willing to talk peace. Even then, everyone knew there could be no permanent peace without addressing the Palestine issue. Carter tried, and failed. But even so he deserves some real praise as it was a major achievement. The Abraham Accords on the other hand were a joke that made things worse. The nations in question were already at peace with Israel and had been for decades. It completely ignored the Palestinians and there were winks and nods for Israel to continue their settlements. It did nothing to achieve a greater peace but Jared did walk away with 2 billion. So there’s that.

OK he was wrong to call you a liar. Who the fock cares? Are you ever going to respond to my points as to why Trump is party responsible? Or are you just not informed enough to offer an opinion?

Actually the Sandinistas won elections as well. But I was all in favor of removing them. I wasn’t in favor of supporting rapists and thugs though. I’m sure you weren’t either. Just because Communism is a terrible evil (and it surely is) we don’t need to support bad guys. And my post was in response to the question of how we screwed up Honduras. With regard to Netanyahu I’m not calling for an illegal overthrow or involvement in Israeli politics so I don’t get your analogy.

This is the best you can do? You ignore all the points I made and come back with Biden is a pedo again? Could you be any more pathetic?

He’s referring to me. I think Trump is partly responsible for this mess with some terrible decision making. Let me again repeat my specific points: 1. He reneged on the Iran nuclear deal and attempted to isolate Iran. This catastrophic decision reversed nearly a decade of attempts to stabilize the area through diplomatic means. It made us far weaker and put our military at risk; Iran has attacked us ever since. It made most of the world distrust us because we no longer honor our agreements. But it did please the murderous thugs in Saudi Arabia (who went on to loan Jared Kushner billions of dollars) and the hardliner right wing government of Netanyahu. 2. He moved our embassy to Jerusalem which enraged Muslims everywhere, strengthened Hamas and Hezbollah, and weakened Israel. There is a reason that no other President, Republican or Democrat, was willing to do this. 3. He had Kushner push through the Abraham Accords without the involvement of the Palestinians, and without any commitment by Netanyahu to a 2 state solution. This also made Israel weaker, Saudi Arabia and Qatar weaker, and Iran stronger. 4. Trump openly encouraged Netanyahu to build more settlements and clamp down on Palestinians in Israel. This again strengthened Hamas and Hezbollah and weakened the Palestinian Authority. (At the same time, Netanyahu was secretly sending aid to Hamas hoping to weaken Abbas- that’s not something he is willing to discuss these days.) There’s a lot more but these are the main 4 points. They have essentially led to the current crisis which was completely unavoidable. Biden has been left to clean up the mess, and he’s done a fairly decent job of it. But it’s still a mess.

OK let’s recap: 1. A bunch of people come in here and respond to the news of Iran’s attack last night by ripping Noe Biden. The only arguments they provide are that Biden is weak, Biden warned them but they didn’t listen, Biden is a pu$$y. They bring up the old falsehood about Biden giving Iran money. And several claim this never would have happened under Trump’s watch. 2. I offered specific justifications for Biden’s actions and arguments as to why he’s done a very good job here. I then went on to argue specific reasons why “Trump’s watch”, far from preventing this, actually made our current troubles inevitable, due to some terrible decisions he made, which I again detailed. 3. No rebuttal is offered to my arguments, but I am called a cultist, unamerican, and garbage. I think this has been an accurate narrative.

Whats interesting is that you won’t respond to any of the specifics. I didn’t just write “blame Trump”; I offered pretty specific reasons for doing so. I find them to be well-reasoned arguments, not exactly the work of a cultist. Maybe respond to them instead of dismissing them? You went on from there to calling people unAmerican garbage. Who exactly is the cultist here?

Thanks for clarifying your view on Trump. Yes my point was about much of the response here and that point remains. But I won’t include you as part of it. I think any real attack by us or Israel against Iran would make things far worse. In fact I think it would be catastrophic. So I’m glad we have chosen restraint. I don’t believe it makes us look weak, but if it does so be it.

Let’s take your second point first. Actually this move was in response to an Israeli attack. So I’m not sure why we should be responding. Biden has used pretty smart diplomacy in this matter IMO. As to your first point: Iran is saving face with its own public. They cannot allow the “Zionist Entity” to get away with killing some of their leadership. So they have to strike back. While this did no damage and was completely ineffectual, it has dominated world news for 24 hours. That’s enough for the mullahs for now. It strikes me that some of you guys are arguing this, despite the fact that this has all worked out well so far, because you don’t want to acknowledge that Biden has done a good job here. It contradicts your narrative of him as an ineffectual weak leader whom the world doesn’t respect. But fortunately for you and me both, your narrative is wrong. Biden is actually the exact opposite of what you’re claiming. And you’re actually describing Trump pretty accurately.

Dude. This is a win for Biden. You don’t get this? The public will.

Hah! Except for the fact that this situation is working out OK and Biden’s done a really good job. But other than that, sure.

None of the drones went to civilian areas. It was completely for show. Biden warned them off, and they took him seriously. Now he’s warning Netanyahu off. This is why we need a strong competent guy in charge. Which we have.

So you’ve posted this in 3 different threads this morning: and it’s just stupid and wrong: the truth is that in each of these situations Trump’s terrible decision making made the situation far more dangerous, and Biden has had to clean up the mess. Which he’s done a very good job of. Dont you get tired spreading simplistic lies?

His larger point was that you guys can’t make up your minds whether Biden is weak or a warmonger. And he’s right.

They’re couch warriors. They pretend Biden is weak and Trump is strong, and both statements are the exact opposite of the truth. Trump is a sniveling coward who would never have been able to handle this situation. Biden is a mature smart leader and not weak at all.

Also regarding Biden, the Iranians actually took his warning to heart. He told them not to attack and they basically didn’t. They announced what they were doing beforehand and they sent drones designed to be shot down. Iran could have seriously attacked Israel; they didn’t. Looks like Biden’s warning made an impression.

And despite the unfounded criticism here, Biden is doing a good job tonight dissuading Israel from further retaliation. Joe is being the grownup and has handled this well all along. Now the goal is to replace Netanyahu. As for Iran we need to find a way to help the Iranian people replace the Mullahs. They will always be a problem. We need to encourage more trade and try to open up Iran’s economy. This policy of Trump and previous Presidents to isolate Iran hasn’t worked. Obama had the right idea and we need to return to that.

But the news is good. 99% of the missiles were shot down. There’s one casualty. So my original analysis, that this was all basically for show, seems to have been correct. Iran doesn’t want a war, they’re saving face.

Reasonable response but there are lots of reasons to hold Trump responsible. Reversing the Iran agreement, sucking up to Netanyahu, moving the embassy, the Abraham Accords which ignored the Palestinians.. these mistakes all helped lead to the crisis we face now.