The Real timschochet

Mike Pence just announced he will not endorse Donald Trump, and will not vote for him, To MAGA types ( the same folks who wanted to hang him as part of what @Jon_mx regards as a benign protest on Jan 6) this will mean nothing- they hate him anyhow. But maybe some traditional conservatives might take pause?

Let’s get to the main points. Do you agree that Trump invites violence with his rhetoric, much more so than any other American politician on the left or right? Do you agree that, in terms of welcoming political violence, Trump’s rhetoric is more similar to that of European fascist strong man politicians like Mussolini, Hitler, Viktor Orban and the like, than the normal American model on the left or right? These are my two main contentions.

The judges didn’t thrust themselves into any spotlight. Nor did the clerks who are also getting threats. Or the assistant prosecutors, or members of the juries. Come on dude, this isn’t right.

Yes I heard it reported by Andrea Mitchell on MSNBC. No she wasn’t specific. No I have no link. I trust Andrea Mitchell’s reporting to be accurate. And you’re contradicting yourself. You’re demanding a source or you won’t believe it, but you also say that even if it’s true it doesn’t matter because I supposedly condone the other side. Take your first sentence: “when lefties do it it’s free speech”. I’ve never made that argument. A death threat is not free speech that should be allowed, ever. So don’t put words in my mouth. My point is that the Republican candidate, Donald Trump, invites this sort of thing and that’s why it happens more often in connection with him. And it’s in keeping with his love of strong men and fascism. Your second sentence, “when righties do it it’s the end of the country”; well I never said that either. First off it’s not righties, it’s Trump MAGA fanatics; they’re not representative of conservatives but he never condemns them. And it’s not the end of the country. But it’s awful and disturbing.

There’s a big difference. Alito is a famous justice, a member of the Supreme Court, some one continually in the news. He and all the major political figures get death threats all the time, including Trump, Pelosi, Biden, Kavanaugh, Mike Johnson- all of them. It’s a terrible thing but in a sense it’s an inevitable price of a free society where people differ strongly on issues. But this judge, and the other judges, and the witnesses, and the prosecutors in the Trump cases aren’t big name politicos- for the most part they are regular small fry like you and me thrust into the spotlight, and because it’s Trump they are getting death threats. Not because it’s a Republican, or a Democrat- because it’s Trump and he uses inflammatory language that calls for violence. And that’s the problem I have and it’s not a both sides thing.

The Fani Willis news isn’t that interesting to me except for the depressing fact that once again the judge received death threats. In every one of Trump’s legal cases the judges and prosecution have received death threats. I know some people here want to throw out that this happens on both sides but I don’t think it does to the same degree. Trump is a would be fascist who wants to end our form of government and has continually justified the use of violence. There is a connection.

If the Tik Tok ban passes the Senate and Biden signs it as promised that will be bad for Biden. That will make it Biden’s bill. All many young people will remember, I fear, is that Biden banned TikTok and at the last second Trump was against doing so.

I don’t get mad. I just don’t do it myself and don’t think anyone else should either.

You’re wrong about this too. Undocumented immigrants are not allowed to vote and I do not think they ever should be. If I had my way no undocumented immigrant would ever have full citizenship rights: legal recognition yes, right to stay here if they don’t commit crimes, yes, most legal rights afforded to Americans yes, right to vote no never no matter how long they’re here.

Well now, I blame Trump for a lot of crap but I can’t blame him for Jon. I’ve read Jon’s posts for many years and he was quite unhinged long before Trump entered the picture. (Gotten worse though.)

What? I’m using the same correlation, the same dumb logic you are. If there were no guns there would be no mass shootings. That’s a true statement, but it’s also completely absurd. Just like if there were no undocumented immigrants there would be no deaths caused by undocumented immigrants. But you and I don’t live in Fantasyland. We live in the USA and there are many millions of guns and many millions of undocumented immigrants. We’re not getting rid of either. And the policies you seem to be in favor of will do NOTHING to stop the deaths of future girls like Laken Riley. There is no law, no restriction that can prevent that. So stop pretending there is and stop using her as a political pawn and stop lying to her parents, who are being manipulated the exact same way you are. It’s sickening.

Democrats do? You won’t find a Democrat willing to say this. Ever. I wish some would. As I wrote earlier it’s not fair. But it’s one of the only solutions that I can see. Also- giving undocumented immigrants legal recognition is unfair to those who came here legally. Eliminating student loans for some is unfair to those who paid it back or didn’t use them in the first place. But we can’t govern based on fairness. We should govern based on what policies benefit us the most.

OK then let’s stop all future gun sales. Why add to it? We have had undocumented immigration to this country since 1776. There is no way to stop it.You can slow it down, and I’m in favor of that but not if it costs more to do so than we gain. And since the vast majority of these folks do not commit violent crimes and are not an economic burden I have to question the motives of those who press hardest for this.

@jonnyutah I could also argue that if there were no guns allowed in our society there would be no mass shootings. Actually some people make this argument all the time. I don’t because it’s stupid.

You are correct, my bad. What I meant is it’s not a violent felony and it has nothing to do with the attempt to tie all undocumented immigrants to violent crime, it also doesn’t make a person “illegal”.

Good point.

Attacking me doesn’t help your argument. But it’s a common thing around here I guess.

Yesterday Trump gave an interview to CNBC where he stated for the first time that he might be open to changes to Social Security and Medicare. Only a month ago he was ripping Nikki Haley for suggesting that changes have to be made, and pledged he wouldn’t touch them. But now he’s the only guy standing. Putting the hypocrisy aside, Trump is correct to seek changes. Biden like most Democrats won’t touch this issue because he knows it’s a political loser. But Paul Ryan warned us years ago: our current path is unsustainable. Whats going to have to happen IMO is that both Social Security and Medicare are going to have to be based on income level: basically if your income or net worth is above a certain level you’re not going to receive it even though you deserve it for having paid in all these years. Plus the retirement age is going to have to be raised, to reflect the fact that people are living longer. Both of these ideas are going to be terribly unpopular so politicians on both sides will be highly reluctant. But what other choices have we?

Try again why? I answered you. Being here illegally is a crime. It doesn’t make someone an illegal person. That’s an ugly demeaning term and decent people shouldn’t use it. Hopefully someday we will regard it like the n word and shun anyone who says it. Unfortunately we’re not there yet.

It’s a misdemeanor. Committing a crime doesn’t make a person an illegal.

Terrible logic. Like saying that if there were no cars there’d be no car wreck fatalities. True but useless. Also there is no such thing as an illegal immigrant.

As of tonight Joe Biden will have all of the delegates he needs to be the Democratic nominee: @Cdub100 $25 @Engorgeous George $500 @Jon_mx $100 I think there was someone else but I can’t remember. You guys have lost your bets. You can wait until November if you want, I guess there’s always the chance that Biden could get sick. But otherwise he’s not going to be replaced. This is over. I offered 4-1 odds because it was a stupid bet, nearly a sure thing. I didn’t expect anyone would be silly enough to take me up on it.

No matter how many of these stories you post it doesn’t change the fact that, statistically speaking, an undocumented immigrant is LESS likely to commit a violent crime than an American citizen, and generally safer to be around. They’re also economically beneficial. Almost all of the conservative talking points about these people are false. But they do have dark skin.

The American people will not put up with rounding up and deporting millions of people .ot won’t happen. But even the attempt will be painful and ugly and I’d rather not see it.

No matter how you try to parse this you can’t. He was very clear about it. And I really think it will cost him among independents.