The Real timschochet

Not my claim, but stated by various agencies. I‘m not sure what difference it makes whether or not the folks come from Mexico or other Latin American countries, in terms of the cost-gain question. That doesn’t appear to me to be a relevant factor though perhaps I’m missing something. But I want to stress that in the short term undocumented immigrants cost us more than they benefit us, especially in the border states, especially now. That’s why I agree that the current situation is untenable.

The economy continues to improve. No idea what will happen between now and November but if the current trends continue Biden will be very difficult to beat.

I know you’re quite fond of me HT

Not sure how I’m controlling the conversation. I offer my opinions and you’re welcome to disagree or comment as you wish. And you’re welcome to ignore the thread if you wish.

In another thread @Horseman is offering quotes on undocumented immigration from the Center for Immigration Studies, a white supremacy hate group posing as a think tank. They lie through their teeth about this issue, but they’re important to read because of their heavy influence on Donald Trump and his closest allies. @Horseman once again I invite you to debate me on this topic. I’m not afraid of your nonsense or lies, and I will force you to face certain truths that you’ve chosen to ignore in your attempt to spread your bigotry. But if you’re too afraid to discuss this issue with somebody who actually knows what they’re talking about, I can understand that.

I have chosen to post only in this thread because it’s the only thread that has the possibility of serious discussion that I can engage in. Even that is only part of the time. A lot of trolls have managed to worm their way in here. Oh well. All are welcome to discuss the issues with me. But if you don’t want to, that’s fine too.

Yeah don’t post in his thread! (he writes as he posts in my thread.)

And the most ironic part is that he says he hates leftists but he’s easily the most leftist person on this topic. I guess he hates himself, which is always sad.

You wrote “government controlling borders and keeping them open”. That’s a contradiction. You’re the one who wants tight government control over our borders.

Also libertarians don’t give a crap about “the will of the people”. That’s a leftist, Communist term. You might as well be wearing be a hammer and sickle on your lapel.

This makes no sense whatsoever. Closing borders involves government, not keeping them open. What the hell are you even talking about? You’re very confused.

Back in 2020 the Baker Institute from Rice University in Texas did an in depth study of the economic effects of undocumented immigration and concluded that the benefits outweighed the costs: https://www.bakerinstitute.org/research/undocumented-immigrants-texas-cost-benefit-assessment This matches a previous study on this topic from ten years prior by the University of Arizona. I have linked both studies in the past and likely will continue to do so, as the facts regarding this matter are pretty overwhelming. I have also posted various studies showing that the impact of undocumented immigration on crime is insignificant in terms of overall numbers or percentage. Thus the two major complaints made about these people, that they cost us money and that they’re generally violent criminals, are essentially myths, created and maintained by those who seek to divide us through fear and bigotry. This doesn’t mean that the current border situation isn’t a big problem; it is and we need to take action. But we shouldn’t forget that in the long term undocumented immigrants are still mostly a benefit to us.

I’ve noticed you have a tendency to label everything you disagree with “leftist”. This is both incorrect and lazy. Most of my views and arguments regarding undocumented immigration come from libertarian sources, like Reason magazine and the Cato institute. My overall philosophy regarding this issue is pro-capitalism. On the other hand, your position fits more squarely in the collectivist/leftist mode.

About 75% of Americans still support helping Ukraine: https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/02/16/how-americans-view-the-conflicts-between-russia-and-ukraine-israel-and-hamas-and-china-and-taiwan/ About half of the Republicans are opposed. Unfortunately this 25%, through the House of Representatives, have a veto power on the rest of us.

Good morning. I read a pretty good opinion piece in the Washington Post this morning about Kamala Harris: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2024/02/22/kamala-harris-asset-campaign/ Jennifer Rubin is an excellent writer. And she’s right; Kamala is being seriously underrated. In the end her ability to mobilize younger voters will help Biden win the election.

Glad you’re enjoying the thread. But I don’t think I’m smarter than all of them. I do think I’m smarter than YOU.

The reason I don’t use that term is because it is dehumanizing. A person cannot be illegal. An act is illegal, not a person. In Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union there were people classified as illegal. That’s not something we should ever emulate here.

1. I don’t. We do deport some undocumented people right now. But if we ever try to do it in large numbers the cost will be enormous. And with no benefit whatsoever (IMO). 2. Of course the analogy applies. The vast majority of undocumented immigrants do not commit violent crimes. They are hard working people, essential to our economy. The more onerous you make conditions for undocumented immigrants, the more you affect the honest ones who don’t commit crimes and contribute heavily to our society. The analogy is spot on.

I’ve been busy all day so I didn’t get a chance to respond to this. But the truth is that neither of those events would cause the swing that you need. The key is that you would need 60 hardline conservative Senators in favor of mass deportation. Just getting 60 GOP Senators would be quite an accomplishment and really unlikely; getting 60 hardline (basically meaning MAGA) Republicans is, in my estimation impossible. With regard to the two possibilities you raised, certainly more Democrats will eventually lead to more Republicans- that’s how this country works, we swing back and forth on the pendulum. But 60 is unlikely and 60 MAGA is not happening. As far as a terrorist attack, that could certainly lead to much greater power in the hands of the government (something that I would think libertarians such as yourself would be opposed to) but I doubt it would ever lead to enough power to enforce the “solutions” for undocumented immigrants that you are proposing. So we’re back to this is an unworkable idea, never going to happen. These folks are here to stay, let’s come up with a solution that does not involve trying to deport all of them.

Neither were mine; that’s not what I’m talking about.

It’s not a lie. This land did exist for my grandparents. It continues to exist for millions of immigrants both documented and undocumented, and hopefully will continue to exist despite the efforts to dismantle it.

That is very cool.

Live that song. His dad wrote it right? Did you really know Arlo? Very cool, big fan.

Well not quite. I explain why it won’t work.

With regard to your first response: let me correct my thinking. Yes it is workable, theoretically, if we want to give up being a free society. Since I don’t, for me it’s unworkable. Beyond that it’s politically unworkable because you will never get enough of the public to allow you the 60 hardline Republicans in the Senate, a majority of hardline Republicans in the House, and a hardline Republican President, all in office at the same time, that would be necessary to pass such a plan.