The Real timschochet

So if I understand you correctly you were for Birtherism whether or not it was true because it might remove Obama as President? Also just curious: which Obama policies threatened our country? In what way?

I agree with you. But “playing the race card” means calling out supposed racism when it doesn’t apply. But what if it does apply? In that case you’re not playing any kind of card, you’re bringing up a real issue of concern. Unless your position is that racism never applies? That all charges of racism against minorities are false claims? Sometimes this strikes me as the fall back conservative position even though I know it’s not:

FWIW I don’t agree with @IGotWorms that what Israel is doing is genocide. Thats a very specific term relating to what is perhaps the worst crime a state can commit and despite leftist accusations to the contrary neither the United States nor Israel has ever committed it. (States that have include Germany, Russia, China, Turkey, Somalia, Sudan, Iran, Iraq, Vietnam, Cambodia. I may have missed a couple.) But I dont agree with you that the answers to your 3 questions, which of course are all negative, mean that Israel should continue on their current course of action.

Well I don’t find your summary to be accurate. But forget that. I believe that there is overwhelming evidence that (a) Donald Trump is a lifelong racist and (b) that he uses racism to sow division and discord in this country so that he might take political advantage. Do you agree with these assertions?

Well me and Colin Powell and many many others both liberal and conservative: https://observer.com/2016/09/colin-powell-is-right-birtherism-is-racism/amp/ The whole thing was pretty obvious. Sorry you don’t see it that way. But I also need to emphasize that it’s only one example of a lifetime of racist statements and attitudes which continues.

Here is the actual post that @supermike80 is referring to, I think it’s pretty obvious from the bolded that I NEVER wrote, nor implied that all or even most Trump supporters are racist. @supermike80 I recently apologized to you for something that I wrote about you which turned out to be very wrong. I invite you now to do the same. Also to actually enter into the discussion rather than simply to spread lies about me.

I did take both of those positions and I don’t find them absurd. I also don’t think they have anything to do with each other. But there is a big distinction here: I might criticize parents for having their kids wear paint and clothing that native Americans might find offensive, but I would never attempt to prohibit such behavior by law. Because we have freedom of expression in this country. That kid has the right to wear that stuff if he wants. Your side oh the other hand wants to make all kinds of laws making behavior you don’t like illegal- especially when it comes to anything related to drag queens, gays, transgenders. Which of us is being libertarian, and true to the principles which founded this country? That would be me, sir.

Link? This is really annoying. Why the Fock don’t you take the time to actually read what I wrote? I believe Trump is a racist. I believe that if you vote for Trump you’re tolerating racism in a candidate. That does NOT make you a racist, Joe Biden has made some racist comments in the past. I am going to vote for Biden, therefore I am being tolerant of those comments. I’m willing to overlook them because I believe Biden is a good President. That does not make me a racist. Next time before you call anyone else a liar consider that, when you make false accusations about people the liar might be YOU.

At this point, over 10 years after he promoted Birtherism, Trump’s racism is so overt and pronounced that you have to be willfully ignorant to refuse to acknowledge it: https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2024/02/27/trump-givhan-black-conservative/

Whether or not those under the age of 18 should legally be allowed to have gender transformation surgery is certainly a controversial subject, one that reasonable people can disagree about. But it’s not pedophilia, has nothing to do with pedophilia.

Do you think ANY Biden supporters are in favor of pedophilia? (Around here I mean). I don’t get the both sides comparison. Trump really IS a racist, a misogynist and a xenophobe. If you choose to vote for him then you’re at least tolerant of such views even if you don’t have them yourself. Meanwhile the “connection” between Biden and pedophilia is a stupid attack meme that nobody takes seriously.

@HellToupee is a guy I’ve always liked around here and FBG. A fellow Steelers fan, with good music tastes, a fine sense of humor. His comments here are, unfortunately, representative of the radicalization of conservatives during the Trump era. They increasingly view liberals not as fellow Americans who disagree with them but as an enemy. They are willing to accept an autocracy, even a dictatorship, if it means defeating liberal ideas.

I understand your position. Just want to see if others agree with you. It would not surprise me if many here do. It would certainly sadden and depress me but it wouldn’t surprise me.

The meeting this morning between Biden, Schumer, McConnell and Mike Johnson will, I suspect, accomplish very little: 1. There will be no funding of Ukraine because Trump doesn’t want it. Part of this is because a lot of his supporters, and conservatives in general, simply don’t want us funding Ukraine anymore. 2. There will be no agreement reached regarding the border because Trump doesn’t want one. 3. I’m less sure about the budget and shutting down the government but once again I don’t believe that Trump will give his OK to any deal that makes Biden look like he achieved anything. In each of these cases Trump wants chaos leading into November and he doesn’t want Biden to look like a winner. That is the most important factor for Trump and Trump decides how this is going to go, as he controls enough of the Republicans in the House to effectively have veto power. I think we’re going to see another shutdown.

So- do other conservatives around here agree with @HellToupee? That anyone who supports Joe Biden is a POS who is responsible for every rape and murder committed by anyone who turns out to be an undocumented immigrant?

I agree. But how does one think critically without facts? And where does one get those facts? Usually my differences with you, and many others around here, is not based on either of us failing to think critically, but on the real problem that our sources of information are different and many instances opposed to each other. I trust the mainstream media. You, at least at times, do not. How can this be reconciled?

Good to see you back Jon. I missed your over the top ravings. Well sort of. But it’s good to hear from you. @Strike and others have pointed out for years that I was wrong about Michael Brown because the FBI and federal authorities found no crime or bad act had been committed by the police. Yet now you come around and say we can’t ever trust what the FBI says. You sound like a radical leftist activist, BTW. The Weather Underground never trusted the FBI either. So which is it? Should I only trust the FBI if they say something that’s bad for liberals? Otherwise they’re corrupt?

Good morning. I now want to discuss the political consequences of the Israel/ Gaza conflict. Though I would never have predicted it, this issue has very suddenly come to represent what is perhaps the biggest threat to Biden’s chances of re-election. Today is the Michigan primary, and a large number of Arab Americans who normally vote Democrat are planning a protest vote. They are joined by many young people. To say that they are pissed off by Biden is an understatement. There is also talk of a huge protest at the convention in Chicago this summer- shades of 1968. The Biden folks tell us not to worry; these folks will all come back in November. Or the situation over there will have resolved itself. I’m not sure of either. But here is what I am sure of: Michigan is going to be a close race either way. And if Biden loses Michigan, the odds are good he will lose the election. Biden needs to win Michigan.

Well as on most issues around here, I disagree with most of you. That’s all right. I think you guys are wrong but generally well meaning.

It doesn’t matter whether they accept it or not. And yes I do have a couple of examples in modern history to offer you: 1. The country of Ireland was created in 1921 and initially ruled by a government which refused to accept its creation and swore death on its creators. 2. The countries of Pakistan, India, and Bangladesh were created in 1948 and initially ruled by governments which refused to accept their creation and swore death on their creators. There are many more examples I can offer but these are kind of instructive because some of the circumstances are similar. Also you misunderstand me. I don’t want to be nice to these people. I want to solve a problem as efficiently as possible. My model in this situation is not some liberal, it’s the most conservative of all American generals, Douglass MacArthur. He was essentially the dictator of Japan after World War II. How did he turn a bellicose, radical nation, destitute, starving and extremist, into the peaceful and prosperous ally we have today? It’s worth reading about.

I brought up Hiroshima and Nagasaki because to me they represent the ultimate argument in moral justification. It’s a terrible thing to kill all those civilians but in the end it was justified, I believe, because we won the war. Not dropping those bombs would have cost us much more lives both American and Japanese. Dropping those bombs was the correct move, no matter how many innocents perished. So that being said I have no problem with the morality here expressed by Netanyahu and in this forum @jerryskids, @Maximum Overkill, and @jonnyutah. I agree with the morality: if Israel has to do this in order to destroy Hamas then I can live with that. My problem is with the tactics because I don’t think it’s going to destroy Hamas. I don’t think it’s going to achieve any good purpose and I’m convinced it’s making things worse not better. And if that’s the case then the whole thing becomes immoral. Committing such acts such as killing innocent people, and especially children, can be justified but only if you can point to an end result which is better for all concerned. If you can’t do that it becomes an act of immorality.

I don’t want to keep repeating myself but what can I say? This logic to me is like banging your head against a steel wall because eventually you might make a dent in it. Of course you might be brain dead long before you make that dent…

And in Vietnam. And in Algeria. Actually the list is kind of endless. We (the west, and that includes Israel) keep making the same mistake over and over. In our attempts to crush extremism we end up strengthening it.

I do not believe these actions will destroy Hamas’ ideology. I am convinced it will only make them stronger.

Create a State of Palestine is the first step. Remove all remaining Jewish settlements from Gaza, the West Bank, and East Jerusalem. Declare the old city of Jerusalem an international city and move our embassy back to Tel Aviv. Give billions of dollars of aid to the new state of Palestine. How’s that? ETA this was all proposed years ago on The West Wing.