The Real timschochet

Sorry guys it’s completely unworkable. Come up with all the plans you want, none of them are ever going to work. But the part that really depresses me is that anyone would find this a desirable goal to begin with. I agree, reluctantly, that we need to secure our borders because these people are coming in too large numbers at the present time. I agree, reluctantly, that we need to to tighten things up. But I hate it. It goes against everything America stands for, our whole purpose for being a nation. We’re supposed to be the New World, the refuge for people escaping poverty and slavery. That and that alone justified our seizing this land from the Indians. That and that alone justified our terrible actions over the years. We can’t have open borders. I get it. But for anyone to WANT to deport millions of people, to think that this is a desirable goal, for anyone who wants to send a message to the world’s wretched people that they’re not welcome here…I think some of you have lost sight of what it truly means to be an American. We might as well place a bomb on the Statue of Liberty and blow it up.

It’s like the leftists who magically believe they can pass a law making all guns illegal and they will just disappear. It’s the exact same logic.

I find it sad. They really think mass deportation would be a good thing and perfectly workable. They’re not living on the same planet.

Crazy talk. It’s delusional.

And yes I know Trump is planning on using the military for mass deportation and detention camps: https://www.washingtonpost.com/ And I know that some of you think this would be a good thing. But it’s unworkable and the public won’t ever put up with it. Our police and military aren’t Gestapo however much Trump might want them to be.

But it’s true isn’t it? If we have 15 million people here ( @Dizkneelande says a lot more) how are we to remove them?) You’re not a stupid guy; it’s an unrealistic goal.

No idea. I doubt it. But that $150k is a temporary number. Pretty soon that number will be reduced to practically zero, whereas the value will continue forever.

Again I don’t understand why you don’t seem to get that cutting off aid to these people will make things far worse. Give them a chance to get settled in, to start working, and they will create much more wealth for us than they cost the system initially. But if you fail to make this investment then you’re simply increasing everything you’re concerned about: poverty, crime, public health, and overall costs to our society.

Im actually not in favor of giving them citizenship. I think they should be given legal recognition, but not full citizenship. I don’t think anyone who comes here illegally should ever have the right to vote. But I do agree that giving them legal recognition would be a great economic boon to us.

It’s actually at the expense of the city and state of New York. But it SHOULD be at our expense. This is nationwide problem. You and I and all taxpayers should be paying to help the cities and areas most burdened with this problem, since you and I and all taxpayers reap the tremendous economic and social benefits of these people being here. And when I write “tremendous economic and social benefits” I’m actually understating the case: https://research.newamericaneconomy.org/report/contributions-of-undocumented-immigrants-by-country/

But once again you guys keep whining about these people being here without offering any workable solutions. You keep repeating “they shouldn’t be here”. Well they ARE here, and more are coming, and we can't change that. Deporting them is unworkable. Depriving of them of housing or minimal benefits is not only unworkable, it will make things worse. This is a very complex problem and it requires some very thoughtful solutions. The Biden Administration hasn’t performed well on this; they have bungled their response, desperately attempting to appease all sides. But the position and ideas of conservatives these days is far far worse.

A lot to break down here: 1. No, I think we probably added around 4 million, which would make it around 15 million. But again these are just estimates which is why I came up with 10-15 million. It’s a guess. Could be a whole lot more, could be a little less. In any event it’s a whole lot of people so I’m not even sure what we’re arguing about here. 2. I don’t agree with you about the 14th Amendment. I see no reason to change it. 3. I have never once written than undocumented immigrants don’t receive benefits. What I wrote is that as a general rule they contribute much more than they receive. However this is a long term thing, so the immediate costs can be higher than the gain, leading to problems in the cities that they tend to congregate, especially now.

Well we shouldn’t account for anchor babies because another word for them is citizens. But that number of 40 million seems unlikely. I just linked you Pew Research which claims 11.9 million as of 2021. The last two years have been very busy which is why I said 10-15 million. I think that’s reasonable.

Here are the most up to date numbers we have, through 2021: https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/11/16/what-we-know-about-unauthorized-immigrants-living-in-the-us/ I doubt it’s doubled since then but if you have the numbers to show it I’d like to see it.

Has that number been documented? I would like to see it. And yes if it was true it would change my overall perception, of course it would. But I would never be for mass deportation. It’s impossible.

He certainly is to many people.

Since you and @Hardcore troubadour have the same answer I will respond to both of you at once: I agree with you. I think any undocumented immigrant that commits an act of violence, after serving whatever prison sentence is appropriate, should be immediately deported, no ifs, ands or buts. But- if you meant send them ALL back, meaning every undocumented immigrant, regardless of other status, regardless of whether or not they committed a violent crime- then no, never gonna happen. Even if most Americans were willing to put up with this (they’re not) we don’t have the means to do it. Not only would such a step cost billions it would by necessity force the creation of a police state. I doubt seriously you or any other reasonable person really want such a solution. There are 10-15 million of these folks already here. More are coming. They create plenty of problems for us, no doubt about that. But if we’re going to have a practical discussion about what is to be done, the first point that we have to acknowledge is that most of them aren’t going anywhere.

I share many of your concerns. Still remember this is a civil case, and yet it was used by @Hardcore troubadour as a reason to compare Trump to Navatny. I object to that comparison. I don’t believe the more serious charges against Trump fall into the “everybody does it” category, particularly election interference and Jan. 6.

So you have no solution to propose?

Regarding the Presidential rankings, I don’t put any stalk into any of the 21st century selections. I think the minimum time to rank a President should be around 20 years. Thus Bill Clinton becomes the last one we can rank, barely. Too soon for all the others.

Yeah there are certain topics that some of you guys choose to raise that I have no interest in discussing, mainly because they’re so stupid and ugly. Paul Pelosi being complicit in his attack is one. Joe Biden being a pedophile is another. Michelle Obama being a guy, transgenders being likely to be mass shooters, Trump won the last election, . etc. etc. Don’t waste my time with this nonsense.

Rather than link some dude looking for conspiracy theories, why not go directly to the source if you have questions about it? https://www.redcrossblood.org/donate-blood/dlp/coronavirus--covid-19--and-blood-donation.html There’s no secrets here. Nothing scary. The Red Cross needs to know which vaccine you received so that they match it with blood type. It took about 10 seconds for me to look that up.

This seems to be a theme these days. Do most liberals have some sort of TDS? Obviously yes. But that is not of our own choosing. We certainly didn’t want Republicans to nominate him again for the Presidency. We would have preferred you nominate somebody else, anyone else. What surprises me is that only just over a year ago, nearly 100% of the conservatives I knew and encountered both in real life and on line had the same attitude: almost all of you guys still agreed with Trump’s policy positions, you approved of him as President, you felt defensive on his behalf against liberal criticism and charges of criminality, but you were also embarrassed by him, tired of his shtick, and eager to move on to somebody younger and newer. I truly believe most conservatives felt this way. Yet when the time has come to actually choose an alternative you guys folded, you went back to the well rather quietly. And that’s the part I have trouble understanding. What makes it even harder to understand is that I know most of you guys despise Biden and really want to see him gone. Yet you managed to choose the one guy that Biden can defeat. Let’s face it, even I admit that Nikki Haley would destroy Biden in a one on one contest. But Trump vs Biden will be neck and neck and I frankly expect Joe to win that. I wouldn’t favor him against anyone else.

We need to continue to keep leftists out of California. But also idiots like Trump and DeSantis types. So long as we’re continued to be governed by a moderate liberal majority: pro-business, pro-immigrant, pro-woke- we will continue to prosper and be the envy of every other state.

Good news for San Francisco: businesses are returning in large numbers: https://www.businessinsider.com/san-francisco-some-tech-leaders-returning-ai-boom-talent-2024-2?amp I tried to tell you guys that the problems were only temporary. In the long run California is still the most vibrant economy in the U.S., amd potentially on Earth.