The Real timschochet

A lot to break down here: 1. No, I think we probably added around 4 million, which would make it around 15 million. But again these are just estimates which is why I came up with 10-15 million. It’s a guess. Could be a whole lot more, could be a little less. In any event it’s a whole lot of people so I’m not even sure what we’re arguing about here. 2. I don’t agree with you about the 14th Amendment. I see no reason to change it. 3. I have never once written than undocumented immigrants don’t receive benefits. What I wrote is that as a general rule they contribute much more than they receive. However this is a long term thing, so the immediate costs can be higher than the gain, leading to problems in the cities that they tend to congregate, especially now.

Well we shouldn’t account for anchor babies because another word for them is citizens. But that number of 40 million seems unlikely. I just linked you Pew Research which claims 11.9 million as of 2021. The last two years have been very busy which is why I said 10-15 million. I think that’s reasonable.

Here are the most up to date numbers we have, through 2021: https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/11/16/what-we-know-about-unauthorized-immigrants-living-in-the-us/ I doubt it’s doubled since then but if you have the numbers to show it I’d like to see it.

Has that number been documented? I would like to see it. And yes if it was true it would change my overall perception, of course it would. But I would never be for mass deportation. It’s impossible.

He certainly is to many people.

Since you and @Hardcore troubadour have the same answer I will respond to both of you at once: I agree with you. I think any undocumented immigrant that commits an act of violence, after serving whatever prison sentence is appropriate, should be immediately deported, no ifs, ands or buts. But- if you meant send them ALL back, meaning every undocumented immigrant, regardless of other status, regardless of whether or not they committed a violent crime- then no, never gonna happen. Even if most Americans were willing to put up with this (they’re not) we don’t have the means to do it. Not only would such a step cost billions it would by necessity force the creation of a police state. I doubt seriously you or any other reasonable person really want such a solution. There are 10-15 million of these folks already here. More are coming. They create plenty of problems for us, no doubt about that. But if we’re going to have a practical discussion about what is to be done, the first point that we have to acknowledge is that most of them aren’t going anywhere.

I share many of your concerns. Still remember this is a civil case, and yet it was used by @Hardcore troubadour as a reason to compare Trump to Navatny. I object to that comparison. I don’t believe the more serious charges against Trump fall into the “everybody does it” category, particularly election interference and Jan. 6.

So you have no solution to propose?

Regarding the Presidential rankings, I don’t put any stalk into any of the 21st century selections. I think the minimum time to rank a President should be around 20 years. Thus Bill Clinton becomes the last one we can rank, barely. Too soon for all the others.

Yeah there are certain topics that some of you guys choose to raise that I have no interest in discussing, mainly because they’re so stupid and ugly. Paul Pelosi being complicit in his attack is one. Joe Biden being a pedophile is another. Michelle Obama being a guy, transgenders being likely to be mass shooters, Trump won the last election, . etc. etc. Don’t waste my time with this nonsense.

Rather than link some dude looking for conspiracy theories, why not go directly to the source if you have questions about it? https://www.redcrossblood.org/donate-blood/dlp/coronavirus--covid-19--and-blood-donation.html There’s no secrets here. Nothing scary. The Red Cross needs to know which vaccine you received so that they match it with blood type. It took about 10 seconds for me to look that up.

This seems to be a theme these days. Do most liberals have some sort of TDS? Obviously yes. But that is not of our own choosing. We certainly didn’t want Republicans to nominate him again for the Presidency. We would have preferred you nominate somebody else, anyone else. What surprises me is that only just over a year ago, nearly 100% of the conservatives I knew and encountered both in real life and on line had the same attitude: almost all of you guys still agreed with Trump’s policy positions, you approved of him as President, you felt defensive on his behalf against liberal criticism and charges of criminality, but you were also embarrassed by him, tired of his shtick, and eager to move on to somebody younger and newer. I truly believe most conservatives felt this way. Yet when the time has come to actually choose an alternative you guys folded, you went back to the well rather quietly. And that’s the part I have trouble understanding. What makes it even harder to understand is that I know most of you guys despise Biden and really want to see him gone. Yet you managed to choose the one guy that Biden can defeat. Let’s face it, even I admit that Nikki Haley would destroy Biden in a one on one contest. But Trump vs Biden will be neck and neck and I frankly expect Joe to win that. I wouldn’t favor him against anyone else.

We need to continue to keep leftists out of California. But also idiots like Trump and DeSantis types. So long as we’re continued to be governed by a moderate liberal majority: pro-business, pro-immigrant, pro-woke- we will continue to prosper and be the envy of every other state.

Good news for San Francisco: businesses are returning in large numbers: https://www.businessinsider.com/san-francisco-some-tech-leaders-returning-ai-boom-talent-2024-2?amp I tried to tell you guys that the problems were only temporary. In the long run California is still the most vibrant economy in the U.S., amd potentially on Earth.

Well here are some facts from the Mayo Clinic: https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-vaccine/art-20484859 That’s the “wherever” I get my info from. I trust them, and all of the other medical experts, far more than some edited interview with Bill Gates. But hey that’s just me. You believe what you want. I know there are a lot of people out there that reject science and facts. I don’t get it, but it’s a free country.

It’s safe for you not to enter if you choose.

The vaccine heavily slowed down the spread and would have stopped it if people hadn’t refused to take it. You’re just wrong here, and your position caused many unnecessary deaths in real time. My periodic use of day laborers is irrelevant to this topic.

In the case of the Middle East, Trump made three disastrous decisions: moving the U.S. Embassy to Jerusalem, negotiating the Abraham Accords without any Palestinian involvement or recognition of their concerns, and giving carte blanche to the Netanyahu government’s policy of expanding settlements. These policies almost guaranteed the Hamas attack on Israel and the no win situation we find ourselves in now. In the case of Ukraine Trump encouraged Putin and attempted to blackmail Ukraine in exchange for fake info on his opponent. These actions caused Putin to miscalculate how we would react if Ukraine was invaded. If Trump is elected again he will again encourage Putin to invade Poland, which really would threaten World War 3.

Pretty simplistic way of looking at things. I believe that both the Russian invasion of Ukraine and the actions by Hamas can be traced back to Trump’s incompetence as President. Would you like to discuss this in detail?

Sorry you feel that way. I think all of the unnecessary deaths, hundreds of thousands of them, that have occurred because people refused to take the Covid vaccine, is pretty gross myself. But to each their own.

I didn’t. I wrote that undocumented immigrants who are veterans should be given veteran benefits. If they are not veterans I am still in favor of giving them whatever services are available but not at the expense of veterans. Do you have evidence of veterans being actually turned away? Or is this just conjecture? If they are actually being turned away that is wrong. But I’m skeptical that’s actually happened; please show me. Also why do you keep switching topics? How is this connected to anything we’ve been discussing?

Please make your argument why World War 3 would be more likely under a liberal President.

I used that phrase very specifically to describe Trump’s practice of overvaluing his properties. Hardcore pointed out, correctly, that many if not most wealthy property owners do this. But the amounts are relative: perhaps a 3 million dollar property is valued at 4 million, or an 8 million dollar building is valued at 12 million. But Trump did things like trying to make a 4 million dollar property valued at 50 million. That’s why I wrote that he was taking a common practice and carrying it to an extreme. Nothing psychopathic about my point.

Well first off, Navalny wasn’t just prosecuted for political reasons. He was also imprisoned, sent to a gulag, and murdered for political reasons. Thats quite a significant difference and it’s one of two reasons for my objection to this comparison. The second reason for my objection is that I strongly disagree with you that Donald Trump is being prosecuted for political reasons. I know he makes this claim and that a strong majority of Republican voters believe it. But that doesn’t make it true. If we examine the specific criminal charges against Trump, it’s hard to see how they were manufactured.

I would have fired them. https://forums.footballguys.com/threads/the-joe-biden-thread-things-are-looking-up.805384/post-24188962 OK. So if I understand you correctly, your objection is that I supported the government trying to compel people to take the Covid vaccine, and you regard that as a gross violation of civil liberties. Fair enough. My response, then and now, is that we don’t live in an anarchy. For individual rights to be protected we have to have a government to protect them. And public health has to be part of that government. We can and should require, for example, that all children attending public schools must receive polio and smallpox shots or they cannot attend, as they pose a public health risk to others. We can and should require that someone who has Ebola or other deadly, communicable disease, be forcibly quarantined. And so on. These measures are not designed to interfere with individual liberties but to protect them. In the case of the Covid vaccine you no doubt believe these measures were misapplied. I disagree with that. But even if you were right and I was wrong in that instance it still doesn’t make me totalitarian. The principle of public health and public safety as necessary for a free society to exist remains intact. So I have to reject your argument. Got any other examples?