The Real timschochet

No. And I’m troubled by that particular prosecution since I’m a member of that industry (not at Trump’s level of course) and pretty familiar with those practices. That being said, it certainly does sound like Trump took a common practice and carried it to extremes, so possibly what he did was worthy of prosecution. I’m not sure. But in any case that was done by the state of New York. It’s not a federal prosecution, and it’s civil, not criminal. It really has no bearing on your comparison of Trump to Navalny, which is what I am criticizing you for and what I find extremely offensive.

Can you be more specific about this? How is my worldview the antithesis to liberty? I’ve always regarded myself as a believer in capitalism, and I think the United States is the greatest country in human history. I’m about as anti-collectivist as it gets and never considered myself a good candidate for Borg membership. I’m a pretty big believer in individual rights. So there seems to be a strong disconnect here. What exactly am I missing? Please be specific.

A coincidence? No. Trump is being prosecuted for various crimes that he committed. If he had chosen not to run for President again he would still be charged for these crimes because he committed them. Beyond that you seem to agree with Trump that there is some kind of reasonable comparison between him and Navatny. I think that’s pretty offensive. It reminds me of black football players who, when they’re not paid enough, complain that they’re being lynched. Or AOC, who compared an immigrant detention center to Auschwitz. Some comparisons should not be made.

Military recruitment has declined on a yearly basis for several years before Biden took office. Unless, perhaps, you have some reason for believing that it has to do with Biden’s policies (and your reason is backed up by data?) Also, since you’re in this thread, would you care to answer my previous question? You mocked another poster for saying that Navatny was a hero and for wanting him to be President of Russia. Russia is a dictatorship run by a man who murders his opponents. Why wouldn’t you want a change there? Are you an opponent of freedom? If not please explain your mockery. Seriously I don’t understand.

OK. Your loss, too bad.

@Dizkneelande is unfortunately a name caller, and he doesn’t like me very much, but he does make interesting points that are worth responding to, so I did. You’re always welcome to do the same.

Yes I find what you bolded extremely compelling. Let’s get into this a little deeper: Following the fall of the Soviet Union, America was faced with the question of how we would respond to those nations under the yoke of Communist slavery seeking our help to become independent and free. We helped them with economic aid, including Ukraine and it was the right decision. Ukraine is a country extremely rich in natural resources, which is why Russia wants it back. Ukraine had not been an independent nation since about 1650. It’s certainly the most tragic country in all of Europe; I would argue that no other place on the globe had a worse 20th century. Stalin murdered about 10 million Ukrainians, Hitler another 3-4 million and created slave labor out of the rest. This was followed by another 45 years of sheer misery under the Soviet yoke. It’s amazing that there is an Ukraine left. Is it a perfect nation? Hardly. It’s been incredibly corrupt. It’s George Washington figure, Chmeltensky, is probably the worst murderer of Jews before the Nazis, and there is an anti-Semitic strain there that is worse than anywhere on Earth, despite the fact that the current leader is Jewish. Nonetheless, and despite all of the tragic history, the yearning for freedom there is as strong as anywhere. Is an independent Ukraine vital to our interests? If you study geopolitics it absolutely is. And yes it will shape our grandchildren’s lives because what happens in Europe affects us so greatly long term.

Obviously they’re not. I don’t use that term, it’s offensive. I do use the term MAGA to describe those conservatives who most closely share Donald Trump’s beliefs. Thats not meant to be offensive. Are most Republicans MAGA at this point? Judging from the primaries thus far it would be hard to argue otherwise. But I don’t know what the exact numbers are. In any case, not all Republicans are MAGA.

First off I don’t regard myself as a leftist. Most of the time I disagree with leftists. I am a liberal, again most of the time. On some issues I lean conservative. You may not think there is a difference between liberals and leftists, but there is one. Second I’m sorry that you reject the source I used. I used them because I find their arguments compelling, no other reason. If you disagree I’d love to hear why. Simply attacking the source doesn’t do much. I’ve done that too from time to time and it’s never a convincing argument. I also don’t believe the Ukraine issue is one between conservatives and liberals. The traditional conservative position of someone like Ronald Reagan would certainly be for helping Ukraine. Finally I’m sorry that you seem to have such negative feelings about me. It’s not mutual. Should you decide you want to participate in the actual discussion I would welcome it.

Just correct one point: I am not arguing that any amount we give is essentially free- I am rejecting the claim that we shouldn’t spend money HERE because we need to spend it THERE, whatever “here” and “there” are defined as. I’m only saying that each expenditure should be looked at separately by its own merits without regard to other expenditures that one might consider more important.

Back in October, American Progress offered 5 reasons we should support Ukraine as vital to American interests short and long term. I will link it here because I can’t improve on their arguments: https://www.americanprogress.org/article/5-reasons-why-congress-must-approve-aid-to-ukraine-right-away/#:~:text=Immediate assistance to Ukraine is,leadership in times of crisis.

No. Norman Fell lived in Beverly Hills. I have no family from upper state New York though I’ve been there.

Ah. OK, I still don’t know the details, but San Francisco has always had a very close connection with China, probably more so than any other American city, for historical reasons. Usually when you say “Chinese nationalist” that means someone originally from Taiwan. If so, I really wouldn’t worry about it but once again I don’t know the details.

On what board of elections? No idea what you’re referring to. It’s not a question I’ve ever considered frankly. Bur as a general rule, my main concern for anyone running anything is competence and integrity, if you have those Im not much concerned about any other factor.

Well I disagree with almost all of it. I don’t think Trump understood NATO at all. Nor do I think that America should ever concern ourselves with how much NATO countries contribute to their own defense, or to NATO, or to the Ukraine. I think that’s irrelevant. Our contribution to Ukraine or to any country or to any cause should be based on one underlying principle: does it benefit American safety and prosperity? (You see? Ultimately I believe in “America First”). In the case of funding Ukraine I say it clearly does. Now you agree that we should continue to fund Ukraine, except with conditions. But the important question for you then becomes, will the lack of these conditions cause you to oppose funding Ukraine? Myself, I don’t love the bill the Senate passed, for two reasons: first because I am opposed to helping Netanyahu’s government at this time unconditionally (separate issue we can discuss later.) Second because I rather agree with @Hardcore troubadour that money given to Ukraine should be specifically directed; we should understand and perhaps control what we are spending on better than we do now, possibly. But those two concerns do not cause me to oppose the Senate bill because the alternative is not helping Ukraine, which is a far worse result than my two concerns IMO. Do you see? So you need to answer the same question: does your conditional support mean that if you don’t get everything you want you will oppose helping Ukraine? Or are you willing to help them anyhow?

Except you just did. Guess I don’t need to beg after all. But you’re right, I’m hoping for serious responses. That after all is the point of this thread. If I don’t get them, no worries. Horseman, I wrote this is a clean slate and I meant it. I’m not paying attention to your previous posts in response to me, or about me, and if you want to continue to attack me that’s fine. I would think there are probably better ways to spend your time but hey it’s your nickel. But if you ever want to have a serious conversation about issues I’m open to it. That goes for everyone reading this. If you don’t, that’s cool.

For those who might have missed this part.

Thanks for raising another topic. Are you making some kind of criticism here? Personally I would have loved to have seen Navaldy as head of Russia. Wouldn’t you? Wouldn’t any freedom loving American? Serious question please respond.

I don’t believe my posts on this subject are illogical or inconsistent (or wrong for that matter.) If some of you do, or think that I’m not worth your time, fine with me. No need for you to keep responding. Or if you’re tired of this subject, feel free to bring up something else. I’m open to other topics.

@Baker Boy’s links point to the disconnect that I believe many people have regarding undocumented immigrants in this country. There are 10-15 million of them here, possibly more. There will be more coming. You can’t wish them away and we’re never going to deport them. Denying them basic services will cost us way more than providing those services. We need to think rationally about this, and we’re just not doing so.

None of those links suggest that they’re receiving government aid in higher proportion than American citizens, so you’re not really proving your point here. But putting that aside I don’t have any objections to any of the news you linked here. Let’s take your first example: why shouldn’t undocumented immigrants who have served this country in the military be afforded the same benefits as other vetetans? Of course they should. Why would anyone object to this? Do you? If so, why??? The other points are just as reasonable. Why shouldn’t children of undocumented immigrants be in school for example? Would you prefer they be kept out of public school? What purpose would that serve?

Thanks but I wasn’t intending to repeat some mantra. I do t believe this is a widespread problem. Do you have evidence to the contrary?

We don’t have proper numbers on how many undocumented immigrants receive welfare or other government benefits on a long term basis but again I suspect it’s not a very large number. They mostly live in the shadows of our society and want nothing to do with the government. On a short term and immediate basis, the current influx which appears to be of record numbers is creating a crisis situation. That part we can agree on. The question is how best to deal with this issue?

The coming week should be a pivotal one in terms of the Presidential election. That’s because we will know whether or not the Supreme Court is going to delay the January 6 trial. If they choose not to delay it, it should start in June. Of the Trump legal trials, the January 6 one is really the only one that matters in terms of November. Nobody really cares about the Stormy Daniels case, and the documents case and Georgia are going to both take place well after the election. The January 6 one is the only one that could affect things- maybe- because of Trump is convicted by a jury it could dampen his support among independents. But again it’s all up to the SC and whether or not they will consider Trump’s claim of Presidential immunity.

Again it depends on who you ask. There is a lot of argument on this subject. I have heard law enforcement advocates testify on this before Congress but I’m not finding it right now to link to you. The truth is, while I’m for universal background checks, I’m not 100% convinced that you’re incorrect that it won’t matter. So I’m not going to push this issue. If I had to vote on it I would vote in favor but it’s not a priority to me.