The Real timschochet

How am I a hypocrite? Please explain.

Except you didn’t. Simply pointing out you don’t trust NPR doesn’t repudiate the facts they offered. The point that most undocumented immigration doesn’t come from our southern border is one that has been true for decades; I simply posted one article among dozens that make the same case. If it’s not true currently that’s a new thing and may not be a permanent change either.

Simple logic suggests that if (a) the statistics on undocumented immigration were fairly steady for decades prior to 2021 and (b) all Biden did was reverse some of Trump’s actions but not all then this crisis has little to do with Biden vs Trump. Again, we need to focus on why so many folks are coming here at the present time. What is happening in their home countries that is producing such a large migration of people? What should we do, if anything, to try and mitigate that? These are the issues we should be addressing IMO.

I will concede the following: 1. 2.6 million border encounters in a single year is unsustainable, even for me who is pretty damn liberal on this issue. 2. Biden and the Democrats haven’t done enough to address this problem. I remain opposed to what the Republicans are proposing. But I agree we need to do something.

This is from 2019: https://www.npr.org/2019/01/16/686056668/for-seventh-consecutive-year-visa-overstays-exceeded-illegal-border-crossings It was the basis of my assertion. But I concede that, based on what you and @Horseman have posted, those facts have changed recently.

Well you asked for my opinion.

Your numbers are correct but represent only recent years. What I wrote is true over the last several decades. And according to law enforcement fentanyl is mostly brought into this country by legal citizens through legal points of entry.

Yes. It’s an ignorant, bigoted argument based on fear.

I don’t buy into this “they don’t share our values” argument. The biggest indicator that this is not so is how much they want to come here, They risk their lives to be here.

Well that’s what most experts believe. And it’s not really changing the conversation. It’s pointing out, if you regard undocumented immigrants as a problem (I don’t but most people do) then you’re not really addressing it by setting up razor wire in Texas.

Excellent analysis.

I’d be OK with this.

Are you aware that the majority of undocumented immigrants don’t come across our southern border at all? They come here legally and simply overstay their visas. (incidentally this is also how the vast majority of fentanyl gets here too.)

I haven’t seen any recent polling on this but my feeling, based largely on anecdotal conversations, is that the conservative view on this issue (basically- we need to do WHATEVER IT TAKES to stop illegal immigration from our southern border) is the majority opinion now. Liberals are in the minority on this one. And it’s regarded as an important enough issue that it could tilt the Presidential election in Trump’s favor. Ultimately I don’t think it will, but it could. It’s definitely the biggest single threat to Biden winning again, even more so than inflation.

1. Reparations is a non issue, won’t ever happen. 2. Health insurance for undocumented immigrants will absolutely have a positive effect.

This is wrong. And I don’t think it’s wise to try to discern what people really think when they’re telling you what they think. In any event, as I’ve pointed out many many times, it’s a terrible assumption that migrants to this country, whether documented or undocumented, are going to be Democratic Party aligned voters. It’s been proven wrong again and again.

The recession never happened. That’s a really good thing.

No. It’s because of the message it sends to the world, which is not the message that liberals want to send.

You forgot the Maginot Line. Also there is a difference between walls designed to keep people in and walls designed to stop military invasions. This one would be neither.

It lists the facts. If you think it’s incorrect you’re welcome to provide evidence.

Sure, because they don’t respect the law.

I like this one.

The people that are the most concerned about this issue are already not voting for Democrats.

We can revisit this topic after he’s been re-elected.

No thanks.