The Real timschochet

I think systemic racism is a problem but it doesn’t cause me to excuse individual bad behavior. If somebody commits a crime that person deserves to be punished for that crime. I’ve never thought otherwise.

I certainly see many of those incidents differently than you do.

Appreciate the discussion. We definitely disagree on a lot of this. Yet I believe you are extremely well meaning. I hope you believe the same of me. And this is the sort of discussion people need in these times, disagreement without demonization.

Bryce Young has a hurt ankle. That’s why he won’t play Sunday. Hasn’t been demoted.

thank you. I watched the whole thing. Very intelligent guy, very well presented. And I think I detected what is for me the flaw in his entire argument: Late in the video, he correctly divides critical race theory between its premise and its conclusion. The premises of CRT is that America has a long history of racism and we should explore this. Rufo agrees that this is undeniably true. But he then states that the conclusion of CRT is is radical Marxism, equity instead of equality, etc. And he argues that well meaning liberals such as myself don’t recognize this conclusion, but he does, and therefore CRT is a nefarious, existential plot to destroy America which needs to be opposed. Fair enough, But he’s wrong. I DO recognize what the conclusion of many of the creators of CRT is. And yet I still want it taught in schools. Why? Because it’s the premise that’s important, not the conclusion. I would offer as an analogy Upton Sinclair’s The Jungle, a book which is extremely important to our history, because it caused a reformation to the meat packing industries of the Midwest, led to unionization of most industries, higher wages and the creation of our middle class. But this is not what Sinclair intended. His criticism was meant to create a socialist revolution in America; he says so in the book. He didn’t want to strengthen capitalism through reform, but that’s what ended up happening. Similarly, I believe that systemic racism exists in our society, is central to our history, and should be taught in schools. Hence CRT. But my goal is opposite of those who created CRT. Like Upton Sinclair, they may want to tear down society, but I want to eliminate systemic racism in order to strengthen our capitalist society. I reject socialism, I reject equity. Rufo apparently believes that teaching our history accurately will lead to these things, but I reject that. We will NEVER become a Marxist society. I apologize for the length of this response but again these are nuanced, complicated issues.

Mine too. All the Presidents are my Presidents. Donald Trump will be my President when he is behind bars as well.

There’s no question in my mind that Kendi is not a good person. I think he’s a con man. But I don’t think that invalidates his overall message.

I haven’t read any of DiAngelo. Kendi I agree with in some content but he is an insufferable writer so I could never recommend him. But Coates I like very much. I read his Atlantic articles in book form and enjoyed them: My problem with your request is that I don’t read a lot of articles, or rely on them for my thinking. I find these issues to be pretty nuanced and I don’t get the depth I need without reading a book, which is why I read and recommend them. But that’s just me; I’m probably a big nerd. I’ve never heard of the last two authors you mention but if you want to link something by then I will read and comment on it- I’ll try not to tell you where they “went wrong”, especially if that’s a subjective viewpoint, but I will tell you where I agree and disagree, if you’re interested.

Not every policy, as it turns out, was a good one. But your implication, if I understand you correctly, is that liberal policies were DELIBERATELY designed to harm African Americans. I don’t believe that and I strongly doubt you can ever prove it.

It was almost completely Democrats who imposed Jim Crow, just as it was Democrats who defended slavery. It’s a shame and disgrace that will stain the Democratic Party forever. It’s also a very tiresome and lame argument, because it is used by modern day conservatives to attack modern day liberals. The Democrats prior to the Civil Rights movement, especially those from the Deep South, were not liberal.

I’ve stopped trying to convince white conservatives of systemic racism. No matter what evidence is presented, the reply is always the same: some form or another of “well they deserved it.” There are dozens and dozens of books on this subject. I have recommended several in this forum on previous occasions. Off the top of my head I would start with White Rage and The New Jim Crow. Maybe Just Mercy (which was recently made into a film starring Michael B Jordan. I dare you to read any of these and retain your position. If you are a reasonable, thinking person of good will, you won’t.

I assume from this post you work for the feds? May I ask where? (I know some agencies would be unaffected by the shutdown but I’m not clear on which ones).

Justin is only wishing you well in his unique fashion. After all, think about it: it’s better to have a stroke now, and perhaps be totally incapacitated, than to be fully aware after the nuclear war begins.

Hillary said it takes a village 30 years ago and she was right. As a nation we have a collective responsibility to make this situation better. After all, we caused it. If there are problems with black culture it’s mainly because of the legacies of slavery and Jim Crow. Now we need to try and fix it as best we can.

Oh bullsh!t. This argument is so tired, stupid and lazy. The main reason white conservatives don’t like CRT is because they so t want to have to feel guilty about the sh!t show that black Americans have had to endure historically in this country. And because they refuse to acknowledge that systemic racism continues and that all white people here benefit from white privilege.

But I don’t think the entrenchment of racism is a lie. And I certainly don’t hate myself.

If nuclear war occurs, what are your chances of actually reading that post?

When this same poster (back then he called himself Riversco) used to warn about civil war a few years back, his premise was always the same: we had to give in to the white supremacists among us, do whatever they wanted. Otherwise there was going to be civil war and millions dead. Nowadays he is arguing that we have to let Putin have his way in Ukraine. And if we don’t there is going to be nuclear war and millions dead. I’ve never known if this is pure shtick or pure insanity or both. All I know is that in both instances Justin is on the side of letting evil happen with the threat of total calamity if we don’t. And that’s very bizarre.

Sounds really good…waitaminnut…Ala mode? Isn’t that with ice cream? How’s that gonna work?

Many good ideas have come from Marxists (for example Social Security and the Civil Rights Movement.) I take the good ideas and reject the Marxism.

First off of all the insults you could throw at me, suggesting that I don’t know who Laura Ingalls Wilder was is probably the worst. Talking about my favorite show as a kid (along with the Waltons) plus I read those books to death. How dare you? Now for the rest: 1. Yes I do support CRT. It’s not Marxist and I don’t find it contradictory to our great history. We have a great history and a terrible history. All of it should be taught. 2. I’m almost always opposed to taking statues down. That’s a part of cancel culture that I really don’t like. I also don’t think it’s particularly important. 3. I don’t particularly love Colin Kaepernick (in fact I think he’s an arrogant jerk) but he didn’t disrespect the flag. By kneeling during the National Anthem he acted in the best tradition of peaceful protest in this country, in the spirit of Martin Luther King, William Lloyd Garrison and others. It’s the greatest salute to our flag, and the ideals it represents, that anyone could offer.

Now I’m curious as to how much would be needed.

I’m going to Long Beach this weekend to listen to some blues.

I’m going to Newport Beach this evening for dinner. There’s a part of it called Lido Isle, with an oceanfront boardwalk that has all these cute little restaurants and stores. Charming and gorgeous; can’t beat it. All of Southern Cal is like this; you guys can suck it. I am living the dream life.

It’s also interesting that a majority of conservatives are getting ready to vote for a guy for President who very clearly doesn’t agree with any of the principles you just listed. Not one.