The Real timschochet

I really wonder about these polls which suggest that a strong majority of Republicans believe the election was stolen. Here’s the thing: I know a LOT of Republicans, including many Trump supporters. I’ve asked this question and never met anyone who thought the election was stolen. Even in this forum, mostly filled with conservatives, only a small handful of you ever assert the election was stolen and in most instances I suspect trolling. So why do the polls show these numbers? One possibility is that my impressions above are all anecdotal and that the folks I know and encounter directly aren’t representative of the real numbers. That’s always something to consider. My suspicion however is that the opinion that the election was stolen is not honestly felt, but rather an expression of defiance in the way that all support for Trump is an expression of defiance: once again Republicans are effectively saying we believe this because f the liberals.

There is certainly a lot of dispute over the facts regarding your first sentence. With regard to the rest my understanding was that the “intel” was more general and not specific to the Capitol Building. But again someone may have a link that contradicts this.

I could be wrong but I don’t remember any conversation at FBG, or the news media, or anywhere else that the Capitol Building was in danger of being attacked on Jan 6. Do you have a link that proves otherwise?

My assumption is that the Capitol Police were surprised; they were not expecting a riot and unlike police in certain cities had no real training about how to react when there is a riot. My further assumption is therefore that as happens in a crisis situation, some police acted bravely and thoughtfully, some acted foolishly, some were frozen not knowing what to do, and a few may have behaved badly. As a retired police officer, do you regard these as reasonable assumptions?

Earlier in response to my post you wrote that the Jan 6 people who entered the Capitol had “every right to be there”. Just to clarify: Ashli Babbit and the others had the right to climb through windows at the Capitol? And you believe that the Capitol Police shouldn’t have tried to stop them?

It’s terribly sad to me that Ashli Babbitt died. She shouldn’t have been there. None of them should have. These folks were there because they were lied to by Donald Trump. He told them the election of 2020 was stolen. Millions of Republicans still believe this. Shame on anyone who lied to them especially Trump.

I’m about to get on a plane so I can’t answer you in detail. But this opinion piece by Jonathan Freedland of the Guardian expresss my own views pretty succinctly: https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/jan/05/donald-trump-president-white-house-damage

Any deal will be made in the Senate and it’s unlikely that the House will approve. But then Biden will attempt to use the House block to make them look extreme on this issue. He becomes the voice of reasonable compromise, they become the party of “No.” it’s been a successful ploy in the past, whether it will work in 2024 is anyone’s guess. Keep in mind that neither the Democrats nor the Republicans truly want to “solve” this issue. They want to use it to pursue votes. That’s especially true of Republicans though it applies to both sides.

I agree with Joe Biden that a vote for Trump represents a vote for extremism and authoritarianism. I suspect that most Democrats would agree with this. I regard this as an accurate description of what Trump and his most virulent supporters want,

I get your point. But if we as a society can save lives, I have to regard that as a win.

Both parties face the conundrum of extremists at the edges. But I think you overstate it in the case of Biden.

There is, perhaps, a positive to this story: it seems that schools and law enforcement are getting better to reacting when events like this occur. We’re not going to stop school shootings any time soon but perhaps we can prevent what took place in Texas last year.

My opinion is that he is eager, both on this issue and that of illegal immigration, to attract some of the populism that has energized both the Trump and Bernie Sanders movements.

Biden has done nothing to add these jobs. The economy continues to rebound from the Covid years but not because of anything Biden did or didn’t do. Presidents have very little power to create either short term prosperity or short term economic woes. This constant giving Biden credit or blaming him is lazy, dumb thinking IMO. Long term effects are different and here a President’s actions are far more palpable. We are only beginning to suffer from Donald Trump’s disastrous tariffs and rejection of the Trans Pacific Partnership the results will be bad for years to come no matter what Biden does; unfortunately Biden has done little to lift these tariffs which makes the situation even worse.

When Coach John McKay was asked his thoughts about the teams’ execution, he said “I’m all for it.” Still one of the best lines in NFL history.

I don’t like @Strike’s attitude but I do think that his point is unfortunately correct. Even if we had the political will to take action about guns, it’s far too late to do anything that would have any meaningful effect.

Sure but it’s good for everyone if the rates go down.

I strongly suspect that if any transgender people resort to this sort of evil craziness it’s not a result of the folks who support them, it’s caused more by the types who shun and reject and bully them. Again just a suspicion but I think it’s a pretty reasonable one.

I was talking to some finance guys from Minnesota down at the pool yesterday and they seemed very confident that interest rates would be lowered seriously by the summertime. One of them, not a fan of Biden, said “hey Biden needs them to go down so they’ll go down. Usually happens in an election year.” If that’s true then home buying will go up and consumer confidence will increase. Let’s hope so.

No. That’s not fair

This is surmise and theory and I’m not seeing the evidence for it. But if you can prove it’s true then Joe Biden should be in prison,

I will repeat what I’ve written whenever this has come up with Biden: where’s the quid pro quo? In order for a crime to have occurred you need to show that the politician in question took action in return for the money received in the favor of the people who gave it, action that would not have been carried out otherwise. This is evidence that this New Jersey Senator, Bob Menendez, did exactly the above. That is why he is likely to be removed from office and sent to prison. But there is no evidence, yet, that Biden or Trump did the same. Come up with some and then we’ll have something.

Yes I believe that people who have gender affirming surgery should be treated under the law as members of the sex they have chosen, and otherwise left alone. And no I don’t believe that anecdotes about strokes are the same as statistical evidence against the Covid vaccine. Is this really the best you guys have to rebut my post? So lame.

In all seriousness It’s a concerning trend. In the Trump era conservatives just make up sh!t, and believe lies. Look at the latest polling: a strong majority of Republicans now believe the 2020 election was illegitimate. There is absolutely no evidence for this. But Trump said it was, so they believe it. They read fake websites like Gateway Pundit who lie constantly to them, and at the same time reject the mainstream media. And it’s not just the 2020 election of course. They don’t believe in man made climate change. They don’t believe the Covid vaccine helped save lives (Aaron Rodgers a prime example.) They ignore science and rely on Mark Levin and Joe Rogan. Against all evidence they blame fentanyl on undocumented immigrants and reject the vast majority of studies which demonstrate that these same undocumented immigrants are a net gain to our economy and not a source of violent crime. They reject all evidence of racism against black people. They have created fantasies about so many issues, such as the Ukrainians being Nazis, or Obama not being born here, or transgender being a mental illness. All of it based on lies and an ignorance of the facts. And then people argue that there is no price to pay when half the nation rejects t the mainstream media? So of course Aaron Rodgers can just make up crap about Jimmy Kimmel. It’s par for the course. I don’t know which is worse: the fact that so many right wingers are willing to believe total lies, or the fact that the ones who know better don’t seem to care so long as their side wins. Both phenomenons are pretty new and equally disturbing. And I have no idea how we get out of this mess.

https://people.com/jimmy-kimmel-slams-aaron-rodgers-over-jeffrey-epstein-claims-8421600